Odd way to do business.

noshoot

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Our church recently contracted with a well known potrait photography business to do a photo directory. The photographer had set up in the church, with what I thought was all the gear he would need to turn out quality digital photos. After my wife and I sat, we were ushered in to the sales people so they could sell us hundereds of dollars worth of the beautiful photos that had just been taken.

Here's the odd part. After looking through the photos, I comented that the lighting on our faces left shiny spots, and it seemed those spots were created by the flash the photographer was using on the camera. The response from the salesperson was that "...for an additional $45.00 we'll digitally remove those spots".

Does any one else think shooting bad pictures then offering to fix the bad pictures for a fee, is a bit odd? Unethical?
 
Not sure of the ethics of the offer, but it sure sounds like the photographer has some stupid sales people. and no excuse for the hot spots with digital. What if the monitor on which you were viewing the pics was not calibrated? That might cause you to see hot spots not present, and the sales person could sell you a fix that was unnecessary. Many ways to take your money. I would have approached the photographer and related your tale to him/her, asked for a retake, or perhaps take up the problem with the church staff. gc
 
Oh, you wanted the "good photo" price. Why didn't you say so? Let's see, $45 to fix the blown highlight, $30 to fix the color cast from the fluorescent lights, $40 to crop the photo so that it is framed properly and hey, this is your lucky day, because we'll throw in focus for free!
 
But we're going to have to charge you another $100 if you want that spot on our backdrop cleaned up.
 
Perhaps not unethical, but certainly misleading, and I wonder how carefully the church pastor and/or staff read over the terms of the photographer's contract, because if I were a person in authority at the church and I found out that the photographers were discussing these additional fees without having explained them to me first, I would be VERY angry.

There is the further issue of whether an illustrated church directory is a good idea, for privacy reasons. I assume that families can opt out of the directory if they don't want their or their children's photographs published. Even if you say the directory is "only for use by members of the church," what's to stop just anyone from walking in and picking up a copy? Lest you think this is paranoia, I know of a number of churches that have very strict rules about publishing photos of members, or identifying people in photos by name, for this very reason. I maintain a church website and our practice is never to identify anyone other than a clergy or staff member by name unless context requires it (such as a photo of a christening).
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2cats

 
My understanding when our church did this was that the directory was free. The only way the company can make money is the sell afterwards. I was also disaapointed in the photos and would not buy any again.

But, if a church wants a directory without charging the congregation, this seems to be about the only way. It's unfortunate that those who actually take the pics are not as skilled as they should be.

--
Eric
http://www.pbase.com/haglunde
 
Perhaps not unethical, but certainly misleading, and I wonder how
carefully the church pastor and/or staff read over the terms of the
photographer's contract, because if I were a person in authority at
the church and I found out that the photographers were discussing
these additional fees without having explained them to me first, I
would be VERY angry.
There is the further issue of whether an illustrated church
directory is a good idea, for privacy reasons. I assume that
families can opt out of the directory if they don't want their or
their children's photographs published. Even if you say the
directory is "only for use by members of the church," what's to
stop just anyone from walking in and picking up a copy? Lest you
think this is paranoia, I know of a number of churches that have
very strict rules about publishing photos of members, or
identifying people in photos by name, for this very reason. I
maintain a church website and our practice is never to identify
anyone other than a clergy or staff member by name unless context
requires it (such as a photo of a christening).
--
Dunno about elsewhere, but my wife's church gets such a directory shot and printed every four or five years. There's never been a problem, in part because it's a small country church, but in part, too, because the directories aren't left lying around for anyone to pick up.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
My understanding when our church did this was that the directory
was free. The only way the company can make money is the sell
afterwards. I was also disaapointed in the photos and would not buy
any again.

But, if a church wants a directory without charging the
congregation, this seems to be about the only way. It's unfortunate
that those who actually take the pics are not as skilled as they
should be.
They are almost certainly paid on a level with their skills.

Different company, but...saw an ad in the paper two or three days ago, under Photographer. As it moves on down, the note is that it's for taking shots of cars for a clazssified ad paper, and that no photography experience is needed. You do need a good car and insurance, of course.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
I agree... times have changed.

There was a shooting at the mall a few weeks ago (guns not cameras). The teenager pulling the trigger and firing at the crowd while talking on his cell phone to the police and saying "just follow the screams and you'll find me" tried to use self-defense as an excuse for shooting and paralyzing a guy who decided to get HIS gun and shoot back.

The wounded good samaritan now says, I just want the guy to find Jesus.

Moral of the story? Jesus now wants us all to carry concealed wepons and shoot back at those who shoot at us. Right? I don't think so... and neither do I think that those weasels should have ever been let in the church parking lot.

Someone didn't do their homework and hired shucksters instead of professional photographers. I guess god isn't in the "Guidance" business anymore.

Times have changed....
 
Dunno about elsewhere, but my wife's church gets such a directory
shot and printed every four or five years.
A church directory -- containing pictures of the congregation...... Huh?.
Why on earth would a church need such a publication?
Fill me in and tell me please, what do you DO with it?
--
Regards,
Baz
 
It's just a directory with pictures in it. A lot of churches have them. It's a nicety. Like a yearbook.
--

 
Church directories make up about 30% of my business so I will make some comments about this subject.

A little background for those who have never dones these or have not done one recently.

A church directory is a pictorial directory of the congregation. These are similar to a yearbook in that they have activity, family photo, roster and usually blank pages at the back for new members. There are three HUGE companies in the business nationwide. They are Lifetouch, PCA International, and Olan Mills. They all offer the same basic product-The church will receive a free directory for access to sell to their members. The church get's a free directory, an up to date member database, and they also use them to help reconnect members that might not be that active in the church

Each family group photographed, whether that be 1 person or 13 (I did a 15 person shot last December), will receive a free 8x10 of their chosen directory pose. The church usually dedicates a coordinator who will set the photography schedules, design the activity pages, and approve the final proof. The big three generally run though 25-30 families a day. That means a 100 family church would take about 3 or 4 days to photograph. 30 families a day is basically a family every 15 minutes. Their up front costs for printing the directories and free 8"x10" is somewhere around 15-20 per person. When you factor in taxes, etc they need to clear around $45.00 per family photographed to make any sort of profit. It's a HUGE business.

Now that there is some background for what you have for a church directory, I want to get into the lighting issues associated with producing one. 30 families a day requires that you use a fixed lighting/camera setup. You have to make sure all of the head sizes are about the same proportions or similar for the directory photographs. You also have to make sure that the lighting is consistent throughout the entire shoot. The advantage to a fixed lighting/camera setup is this consistency. Unfortunately, it is also has two huge disadvantages. People are not all the same skin tones, so if you have someone with very fair skin then the fixed lighting might come out too bright. The second disadvantage is when trying to shoot children. It much easier to pick a camera up off a tripod that move the trip to their levels. Most of the big companies are still shooting 46MM Long roll film inside of a camera that looks like a missile targeting system

I think what happened to the OP is that either they were not using fixed camera setup and had a flash too close on a moving camera or maybe they are fairer skinned. E

Whew! That all being said. Every reputable church directory company always lightly retouches the photographs. They go through a proof process where any glass glare is removed, skin wrinkles are lightly softened, and mild dodging and burning. This should have taken care of the highlights The OP saying the company wanted to charge to fix their screw-up is a reflection on how that company operates. Which gives smaller companies like mine a bag reputation.

There are alot of shysters in this business which make it difficult for us little guys to compete.

Also, you have to remember these are not private portrait sessions. These are basically event photos so you are not going to get the same creativity that could get focusing on one client for two hours.

I happen to do my directory business with a digital workflow, but it all the same principles. The only thing I do differently is that I only do 13 or families a day because I have found the time very productive in producing more creative photographs that happen to sell very well..:)

My two cents.
 
scam..almost blackmail..pay more or we wont do a good job
--
'Beware of the oldman with one gun\camera..He knows how to use it'
 
I know my mom's church has done one for years with no problem. Our church has a directory as well (large urban) but I don't recall if it has photos or not. I know it has contact info unless you want to opt out.
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A small but growing collection of my photos can be seen at
http://www.pbase.com/poliscijustin
 

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