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Digital SLR dynamic range

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Niels65995

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I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.

Where can I find the information or dos someone here know the dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
 
Search for "dynamic range" in the pro forum & you will find the threads floating around last 15 days.
Mostly were discussing how to increase the range upto 10+ stops.
Ranjan
Niels said:
I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good
Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops
of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.

Where can I find the information or dos someone here know the
dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Click to expand...
 
I don't think so. Slide film has about 5 stops of latitude, print film, about 7, the human eye roughly 12-14. Not sure I know of any camera, digital or otherwise, with 10 stops dynamic range, much less twelve.
Niels said:
I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good
Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops
of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.
Click to expand...
 
Michael Long said:
I don't think so. Slide film has about 5 stops of latitude, print
film, about 7, the human eye roughly 12-14. Not sure I know of any
camera, digital or otherwise, with 10 stops dynamic range, much
less twelve.
Click to expand...
Actually, most of the digital backs claim between 10 and 12 stops. The leaf 'c-most' for example advertises 11 stops as does the Phase One.

How accueate this really is may be in question but I would guess the tested results would fall within 2 stops.

I too would love to know what the D SLR's test at. It must certainly be noticeably less than the above mentioned backs or Nikon, Canon and/or Kodak would make a point of telling us.

sas
 
I have done more search on the Internet, and the company Creoscitex ( http://www.creoscitex.com ) are using a single exposure, 3150 x 2100 pixels, 36 x 24 mm Color sensor in the Leaf C-Most digital camera back.

And in the technical specification ( http://www.creoscitex.com/products/input/leaf/c_most_specs.asp ) they write/claim: Dynamic Range: 11 f-stops

I know about horrible low dynamic range from using Nikon CP's consumer digital cameras, I don't expect the Pro digital SLR can beat the full-size Leaf C-Most, but dos somebody here know the f-stops dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Michael Long said:
I don't think so. Slide film has about 5 stops of latitude, print
film, about 7, the human eye roughly 12-14. Not sure I know of any
camera, digital or otherwise, with 10 stops dynamic range, much
less twelve.
Click to expand...
 
From repeated testing on multiple samples, I'd say that the Nikon D1x generally has about 3 stops of range above middle gray and as much as 5 stops below middle gray. Usable range is probably closer to -4 to +2.5, so say 6.5 stops. Remember, though, that your print device/paper has a limited range, and that range can be less than the camera can capture.

Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Niels said:
I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good
Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops
of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.

Where can I find the information or dos someone here know the
dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Click to expand...
 
Thank's for the information Thom Hogan

Just a little arithmetic: 3 stop above and 5 stops below is it not 9 stops dynamic range? Counting -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0(middle gray), +1, +2, +3

And then til usable range from your repeated testing is -4 to +2.5, counts 7,5 stops.

...or am I wrong?

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Thom Hogan said:
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Niels said:
I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good
Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops
of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.

Where can I find the information or dos someone here know the
dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
No, if you have five stops below and three stops above, that's eight stops. If I were to open up the aperture five stops, assuming that the camera could record it, black would now be at middle gray and white would be eight stops above middle gray.

If math worked the way you want it to, 9 minus 1 would equal 9 (count the digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9).

Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Niels said:
Just a little arithmetic: 3 stop above and 5 stops below is it not
9 stops dynamic range? Counting -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0(middle gray),
+1, +2, +3

And then til usable range from your repeated testing is -4 to +2.5,
counts 7,5 stops.

...or am I wrong?

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Thom Hogan said:
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Niels said:
I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good
Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops
of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.

Where can I find the information or dos someone here know the
dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Take any claim of 10 to 12 stops with a VERY LARGE grain of salt. I think the marketeers are taking a rather strict and misleading digital/binary view of stops. A high end digital camera can record about 12 bits of data per channel. 12 bits of data, in binary speak, translates into 12 doublings of magnitude (i.e. if you take the smallest non-zero value, or 1, and double it 12 times -> 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ...., you get 4096, the largest value that can be represented by a 12-bit number). Since a stop equates to a doubling or halving of the amount of light falling on the film/sensor plane, my guess is that the marketeers are equating stops and bits. But this equality would only be valid if CCDs, and their associated analog to digital (A/D) converters, were perfect linear devices. Which they aren't, not by a long shot. With real world CCDs and A/Ds, each doubling of light intensity doesn't translate into a doubling of the binary value output. On average, for each doubling of light, the value output by the CCD and A/D increases by more than 2X, so you end up with less than the ideal 12 stops implied by a 12-bit value. As Thom pointed out, the D1x has roughly an 8 stop range. Pure white occurs at around +3 stops, and pure black occurs at around -5 stops. Some of the super high end camera backs may beat this, but if they do, I doubt it's by much.

Hans.
sas said:
Michael Long said:
I don't think so. Slide film has about 5 stops of latitude, print
film, about 7, the human eye roughly 12-14. Not sure I know of any
camera, digital or otherwise, with 10 stops dynamic range, much
less twelve.
Click to expand...
Actually, most of the digital backs claim between 10 and 12 stops.
The leaf 'c-most' for example advertises 11 stops as does the Phase
One.

How accueate this really is may be in question but I would guess
the tested results would fall within 2 stops.

I too would love to know what the D SLR's test at. It must
certainly be noticeably less than the above mentioned backs or
Nikon, Canon and/or Kodak would make a point of telling us.

sas
Click to expand...
 
Thank's Thom
I understand, you are right.

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Thom Hogan said:
If math worked the way you want it to, 9 minus 1 would equal 9
(count the digits: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9).

Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Niels said:
Just a little arithmetic: 3 stop above and 5 stops below is it not
9 stops dynamic range? Counting -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0(middle gray),
+1, +2, +3

And then til usable range from your repeated testing is -4 to +2.5,
counts 7,5 stops.

...or am I wrong?

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Thom Hogan said:
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Niels said:
I have heard or read - don't remember where or when - that a good
Pro digital camera (CCD or CMOS) must have at least 10-12 F-stops
of dynamic range at ISO 100/200.

Where can I find the information or dos someone here know the
dynamic range at different ISO settings for:
Canon EOS D30
Canon EOS 1D
Nikon D1X
Nikon D1H
Kodak 760
Kodak 720
Fuji S1

Greetings
Niels Poulsen
Don't forget to visit my on-line danish Gallery
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/nipo2000
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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