why are people disappointed with 30D?

My major dissapointment is that Canon fail to have an easy product cycle plan, for me :-)

I expected a 20D replacement now at PMA 2006. 1DsmkII and 350D replacement at Photokina 2006.

Most important: A 5D replacement at PMA 2007, my upgrade :-)

I think everything will be delayed now. THAT is dissapointing ...
  • 30D has a lot of improvements over 20D
It has some improvements.
  • Poeple are upgrading from 300D/350D to 20D then why not 30D?
Not many upgrade to a 20D from 350D. They probably bought the wrong camera in the first place if they upgrade from a 350D to a 20D.

'None' will upgrade from a 20D to a 30D. I think the result is that more ppl upgraded from the 10D to the 20D or from the D60 to 10D, then will upgrade from a 20D to a 30D.

--
Henrik
 
There's this huge, gaping void between the 20/30d and the 5d, and I
think many people expected the 20d successor to fill it.
Huge? Gaping? About the only things to distinguish the 5D from the 30D are its sensor, and its price.
 
hardsuit wrote:
First , baaad name choice. too confusing. not progressive.
second, not very souped up specs.
still way too expensive. $1500 ? bah.
rebel xt $699 w/ 18-55 , 30d $1000 w/ 18-70mm efs
how about real time display of iso when selected.
kudos to canon for stepping up to 2.5' LCD
how about dual card and dual write but seperate file types.
EX. sd high speed 2gb jpegs and cf 6gb ultra speed for raw.
still no final solution for lens dust. like XL2, their product.
still missing predictive AF + flexizone AF/AE.
need alarm and defeat of opening of card door looses
all buffered image going to card.
support for 16:9 and 3:2 image formats not just 4:3
Xtra optical zoom 8.0mp 1.6x = 6.0mp 2.4x optical
100mm x 2.4x = 240mm
in camera PC ( perspective ) correction.
still no real wireless off camera TTL flash .
EX. 1) master - camera , 1 slave - TTL flash. (up tp 6).
high speed FP sync mode = 1/8000 sec w/ TTL flash.
--
' lets see what's out there.....engage'
 
Most important: A 5D replacement at PMA 2007, my upgrade :-)
So tell us, what is it that is so bad about your rather new 5D that you want an upgrade in 1 year from now?
'None' will upgrade from a 20D to a 30D. I think the result is that
more ppl upgraded from the 10D to the 20D or from the D60 to 10D,
then will upgrade from a 20D to a 30D.
Yes, that happens as the market is maturing. It's no longer in it's infancy, like back in 1997-2000...

Theo
 
1st November, 2005

That's when the seeds of disappointment were sown. Yes, there was talk before that date, but nothing like what was to come.

And it wasn't even what actually happened on that date per se. It was the way the event of that day was received and was responded to.

First of all, there is nothing at all wrong with the 30D. It is a fine camera that will produce stunning photographs and will make a lot of people very happy. I don't even see a particular problem with its name. Yes, it is more akin to a 20D Mk2 or 20Dn if you like, but Canon chose not to use the 'n' or MkII designation on this camera as they have on the 1D.

1st November, 2005. The day the D200 was announced by Nikon.

The problem lies not with that camera but with the way some people on these forums reacted.

Just review the posts of the 1st November 2005 and successive dates in the various Canon forums. What you'll see is a number of individuals hyping up the then vapourware 30D and indicating two things.

1. The camera would be launched at PMA ( they were right about that ).
2. That the 30D would blow the D200 out of the water.

What was worse, was that some of these individuals gave the impression they were imparting insider or privilidged information. They didn't say they had privilidged information, but I don't recall it being denied when other people assumed they were insiders. This started the snowball which was to become the avalanche.

As time went on, others made extraordinary claims which completely ignored development timescales. Such expressions as 'Canon will respond to the D200 ...' or 'Canon knew about the D200 before release and have already engineered the 30D to surpass it' became quite common. There were posts saying that it was ridiculous owing to timescales as the 30D would have been signed off for manufacturing long before the first D200 rumours surfaced. Others correctly pointed out the different release schedules of the these two manufacturers with Canon committed to little and often and Nikon bigger changes less often and that it was likely to be the 30D successor that closed the gap to the D200. Unfortunately, these voices were lost and ignored in the avalanche of hype and expectation.

Wishful thinking, over hyping by some individuals and 'hints' by people assumed to have insider info.

That is primarily why everyone is got so disappointed.

It wasn't just these forums of course. Similar things occurred elsewhere but for a microcosm of why it happened, you need look no further than here. The history is there, it just needs reviewing in the cold light of today. The day after forum hype, NOT the 30D, disappointed.

-----

This post has not ben aimed at any individual. It is not an attack on any individual.
 
spot metering, proper adjustment of the ISO etc, some of those things are long overdue and it is nice to see Canon finally adding them.

And the camera being an slightly updated 20D is not a bad thing, the 20D have been an excellent camera for a long time, and will remain so.

We just don't like the name;)
It is a 20Dn, or possibly a 20DmkII

The camera isn't different enough to deserve a new name, but if it was, the name should be a lower numbered one, possibly 10DmkII.

--
Anders

http://www.teamexcalibur.se/excalibursida4.html
http://www.teamexcalibur.se/excalibursida4a.html

event photography and photo journalism
 
There's this huge, gaping void between the 20/30d and the 5d, and I
think many people expected the 20d successor to fill it.
Huge? Gaping? About the only things to distinguish the 5D from
the 30D are its sensor, and its price.
Exactly. A price between two and three times what the lower-end model costs - and a price that is beyond reach for many hobbyists no matter what its benefits. And you can't use the kit lens (or other EF-S lenses) on it; you'll have to budget for new lenses as well.

--
Japan: http://lucs.lu.se/people/jan.moren/log/current.html
Images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jannem/
 
people not happy because Nikon has a D200 at the same price range :)
I could be wrong, but I thought the D200 was much more expensive than the D20/30D. B and H sell the 20D for about 1150, while the D200 is 1700.

Thats quite a price difference.

--
'Your ideas intrigue me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter'

http://www.pbase.com/timothyo

 
point being?

So what? new lenses? I guess if someone for his HOBBY can afford a tool like the 5d he can well afford a few good lenses too.
the 5d is not exactly "entry level priced".

Besides I guess one of the group the 5d does target is those who have a good ammount of (especially WA) lenses made for a 35mm sensor and are reluctant to "multiply the focal length by 1.6" (use a aps-c sized sensor).

for example one of the best lenses for travel/Street/PJ work I heve seen from canon is the 24-70mm L USM lens... that's a neat lens... but almost "useless in it's WA range" on a APSC DSLR...

there are many other examples... and these L-Lenses are not exactly cheap either. Worth the cash? well I guess so if you need top quality glass.
 
I have to agree...

I'm not a "brandX-guy"... but I like what canon has made with the 30D... improved an already good product at places where I think it serves a good purpose.

8Mpx are really enough for most (and those who need to go bigger, there are options, but naturally at a higher price).

5Frames per second, wew, not too many situations for the Hobby-shooter where this is really needed, it's convenient, for sure a nice improvement.

Spot meter, a really handy addition... Actually I always wondered why canon did not add one to their "lower end" cameras...

improved shutter-lifecycle... that is not bad either,... 100'000 is a decent number.

ISO changes visible in the viewfinder, now that's cool.

I say there are enough improvements for an already very good camera (20D)...

So what's the problem with the name... if it now is called a 20d mkII, or Gizmocam-12cbetaXV,... who cares, it's still a good camera...)

I could never really figure how pentax chose their product names, never the less, decent cameras...

and if it's the 20D, the 25D, the 30D or the 40D... either the specs and body is worth it for you or not, what has the label in front to do with quality?

Expectations, yeah, this is another matter entirerly... fueled by all the stupid rumors, by hope for this and that at a bargain price, and now canon improves a good camera with good additions, and all I can read are dissappointments about it's name and lack of improvements.

What is there actually for most of you, which can not already be done with your 20D? in real life not just in fiction.
 
I can only agree... well put.

I can't wait 'till all this "cools" down and finally there will be no "necessity" to buy each year a new model (not that I did... I couldn't care less...)

but Often I think back at my trusty F3 or even the F80 or the partially owned F100...
the F3 I used for almost 15 years... the SAME body... and it served me well...

the F80 (a nice travel, backpacking camera) has been with me since almost 8 years.... and it's still in mint, working condition...

That is what I look forward to with digital slrs... and that is what I believe does slowly start... it will "never" be as with the film cameras... but at least for 5-6 years a body should last and be sufficient... the more the better...

I am looking forward to buy my own "first" DSLR soon... but have been using (not just trying at the stores) D70, 10D, 20D, D100, 1Dx, ... as I have a few "photographing friends"...

not sure which one I'll get by than when I can afford a body and a few matching lenses and other stuff, I am sure that whatever I get will be ok.
 
Please, I dont think Canon are treading water and that the 30D doesnt have a new more MP sensor is not bad. Canon have improved the processor and circutry behind it and as such have increased the sensitivity, they have redesigned the shutter unit making it useable longer than the 20D, these are not small changes people, they may seem like small changes as Canon have made a point over the last few years of making new sensors in their D-SLR's and most Sales staff are bombarding consumers to believe that more megapixels is and will always be better, sure it is if you are printing huge photos but most ppl dont, 8mp is heaps for 99% of most of us
 
but not for a large lcd screen and iso in the viewfinder which both should have been on the 20d in the first place.

In fact i'm willing to spend $2399 on a camera body if it's worth it. My wife would like to personally think canon for not producing a camera in my price range.
--

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root
 
So tell us, what is it that is so bad about your rather new 5D that
you want an upgrade in 1 year from now?
My 5D ?

I wanted a 35mmFF or better, but couldn't find any (a good one for a decent price). I was desperate so I almost considered the Kodak ... The 5D didn't exist back then.

So, I bought an inbetween camera while I wait for the real one :-) I now have a 350D ... and waiting for the 5DmkII :-)

I could of course upgrade to the current 5D, but I'll probably wait till the 5DmkII and keep the 350D as a cheap backup camera that I can bring to places I won't take the new 5DmkII.

--
Henrik
 
First, what is the 30D?
It's a replacement for the 20D. It has some minor improvements, and
it will be slightly cheaper. I concur, that the changes are so
mild, it should be the 20D+ or following Canon's corporate naming
logic, 20Dmk2.

Second, why are people dissapointed?
They Expected more. The problem of the 20D has of late been that it
produces as many megapixels as the 350D, but costs almost twice as
much. This will not significantly change. Clearly, the current
prosumer evolution process for a canon dSLR user is supposed to be
3 digits, 2 digits, 1 digit, meaning 350D, 30D, 5D. The step
between the 350D and the 30D is too small, there's not very much
you can accomplish with a 30D you could not achieve with it's
little brother, whereas, there's a huge step from the 30D to the
5D, as well pricewise, as otherwise. I hope this spells for the
launch of a 7D, placed pricewise (and otherwise) smack between the
5D and 30D, but I guess that won't be happening.

Third, why are we worried?
Canon user's like me, are (want it or not) prettymuch married to
their system. Changing over to, say Nikon, would mean not only
learning a new system, but also an immense loss of money.
Changing system is not much easier than getting a divorce in
real-life (depending on where you live).
Every time there's a trade show, like the PMA, the people who are
married to a system sit at home and hope that there will be new
announcements for their system.
This is not so much based on the logic: "Let's see what new canon
gear I will buy...", It's mostly that those who are married to a
system want to see announcements, which strengthen their belief
that the marriage (read system), they've spent a lot of money to
buy themselves into will be a lasting investment.
Most canon users like me, are probably looking at the PMA
announcements to see signs of:
1# Canon's continued dedication to provide cutting edge gear.
2# Canon's continued support for the gear (e.g. EF or EF-S) the
user carries in his bag
3# Clear signs of product evolution
4# Keeping in front of Nikon

This last thing is not just a typically male territorial dispute.
I've spent almost all my spare cash on cameras and optics for the
last 18 months. Seeing Canon in front of Nikon makes me feel better
of my investment (read squandering). These thingies cost immense
amounts, and two critical points of view every marketing person
must think of is "How can we help the customer justify his
spending?" and "What can we do to avoid buyers remorse?"

The three pre-PMA announcements so far are a minor upgrade to a
dSLR body, an new version of a very nice piece of glass, and a new
EF-S lens.

Now I personally hope there will be much more to come, because:
  • a 1100$ EF-S lens will not be at the top of the buying list for
very many. EF-S is the choice of a person who has comitted himelf
to the 1.6 crop, and althought that lens will be very needed, many
will feel anxiety at the thought of buying it. Also anyone who owns
even one EOS dSLR which does not support EF-S (Incidentally I do
not have a single EF-S compatible body), will not buy that, or any
other EF-S lens.
  • an update on one of canon's admittedly finest pieces of glass.
Now frankly, I've been around many current 85L users (I personally
make do with the 85/1.8), and have read many threads and
discussions about the previous version of the 85L, and NEVER have I
heard anyone seriously complaining about the AF speed or the need
for improving support for E-TTL II.
It's a super-wide aperture lens for cryin' out loud. You buy it not
only for a shallow DOF, You want to use it in natural light. I've
actually never seen it used with a flash (although I assume some
might do that).
  • the 20Dmk2, is not what was expected. Canon-husbands and -wives
worldover had hoped to see Canon's answer to the Nikon D200, which
this clearly is not. What peeves me personally is that although the
20Dmk2 is slightly cheaper than the original 20D, I'm ready to bet
a small fortune it's profitability is waaay better.
Current 20D owners will not upgrade in flocks. current 10D, 300D
and 350D owners will consider it, but they might just as well go
into the single-digits or buy a used 20D.

What would I need to make my investment feel secure?
  • A top-notch APS-C dSLR (min 10 mpix) or an entry-level 1.3 or 1.0
crop body by the end of the year. An update of the 350D by summer
2007 (at the latest)
  • optics:
20/1.8 USM
35/1.8 USM
50/1.2L USM
135/2L IS USM
200/1.8 IS USM
200/2.8 IS USM

EF 12-24 L4
EF 70-200 L4 IS USM
EF-S 18-200 IS USM (comp. NIKKOR AF-S DX VR 18-200/3.5-5.6G IFED)

2much said
Pekka
-
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/
 

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