DCS 760 vs. D1x

Maybe Iought to add that as film sales decline, Kodak are trying out all these little sales gimmicks here in the UK - if they are successful, you might start to see being heavily promoted in the States.

As you can imagine, it has left a very bitter taste in most photographer's mouths and, where there is a comparable product, many are shunning the Kodak one in favour of the alternative.

dontracy said:

Hi Carol -

As far as I know, the $99 NC2 rebate is no longer available in the US.

Care to share the other boycott factors?

• Don

Click to expand...

If you've read the article a few months ago in the PMA magazine, a Kodak spokesman has said that once they get the system working well in the UK it will be introduced in many countries worldwide!

Many photographers have been using Fuji/Agfa film in preference to Kodak in the UK.... but many photographers really don't care - as they beleive that their work stands out by itself. The argument really stems from whether a film supplier can also compete against its customers. From Kodak's point of view, they get a few pence or cents for a 10"x8" piece of paper, a lab get a pound or dollar, and the photographers gets £10-£25 or $15-£40.... all for the same piece of paper......

As the market changes, all large companies will stuggle with the changes - just look at Polaroid.

It all depends on whether people are blinded by brands. Many places cook burger, but you go into McDonalds anwhere in the world and you get exactly the same. Easy to do with food - but when you are trying to sell somthing as creative and skilled as wedding photography I think that will be very hard to do!

Carol Steele said:

Maybe Iought to add that as film sales decline, Kodak are trying
out all these little sales gimmicks here in the UK - if they are
successful, you might start to see being heavily promoted in the
States.

As you can imagine, it has left a very bitter taste in most
photographer's mouths and, where there is a comparable product,
many are shunning the Kodak one in favour of the alternative.

Click to expand...

Are any of you getting problems with flare on the 760 - particulsry with strong backlight?

I fully realize that the lens has a different angle of view - and the lenshood is not as efficient as it should be - but even when using a french flag or gobo I am still getting quite bad gosting or flare in backlight shots.....

Any ideas?

David

Carol Steele said:

They hire photographers for
a pittance - but brides still go for it because of the Kodak name,
but many don't even know who will be photographing the wedding
until s/he turns up.

Click to expand...

To be brutally honest if a wedding photographer can not distinguish themself from "kodak wedding" well then they really don't know their craft! My competition is not the low end bride, or even the bride that thinks the KODAK brand name means something! My bride wants me, my vision, my style, my distinctive quality! If the Kodak brand name means something then maybe it is time for photographers to work harder at advertising there name.

The math is simple if KODAK is paying there photographers a pittance how can they get quality photographers? That fact alone would scare most of my clients away from the KODAK approach.

I know how frustrating it must be for kodak to be competing against its loyal pro's and if they start to do the same here in Canada I will likely boycot them simply on principle aswell. (even though Il love their film!)

sas

dontracy said:

1GB microdrive which Kodak is including with the 760

Click to expand...

does the 760 now come w/ a microdrive ?

Is that with or without an IR filter. I found flare on the Nikon d1x using an IR filter. Other than for lens protection, I keep wondering why I am using it.

David Clark said:

Are any of you getting problems with flare on the 760 - particulsry
with strong backlight?

I fully realize that the lens has a different angle of view - and
the lenshood is not as efficient as it should be - but even when
using a french flag or gobo I am still getting quite bad gosting or
flare in backlight shots.....

Any ideas?

David

Click to expand...

In the US, Kodak is offering a 1Gb microdrive rebate through the end of the year. You buy the camera, send in the rebate card and get the drive later.

• Don

Interesting thread. Does my heart good to know you are all in such good shape .. and can carry the camera so easily. I moved from an S1 to a D1X .... and frankly ... the D1X feels like a 50 pound brick at the end of the day ... so I can only surmize that the 760 feels like a 100 pound brick at the end of the day. Wonder if they'll ever come out with a digital Minox?
Karl

HI all,

A good Discussion!

I for one am tired of hearing the "too big and heavy" talk for the DCS760.
Anyone coming from a medium format system doing wedding photography

will find it relieving to move to the smaller - less cumbersome dcs760 - try carrying a hasselblad, or Mamiya RZ with all the requisite equipment for a 12 hour day... granted it depends on what you have been using

Anyway, I went to a local camera store to try the Nikon D1X in person. I took some ambient shots in the store at ISO 400 in RAW with a 50mm prime lens.

Issues: 1) it would not work with my 1 gig microdrive - we had to shoot with his 340mb MD and transfer the images to my drive on a PC.

2) All the images shot had a lot more noise than I was expecting due to the reviews and the hype about this cameras 'real clean' images.
It always pays to do your own test shooting!

3) also there was evident moire' in a number of shots - so no advantage over the dcs760 here...

4) after working with raw NEF files (I used Qimage - great prog) I found that the Kodak software/raw file format allows much better workflow and quick adjustments of color balance/ exposure (plus ability to SAVE many highlight blowouts!)

Perspective: Camera decision for wedding photography. After my experience negating in my mind the perceived advantage of the D1X - lower noise (it has higher iso settings and may be great at them - I only tried 400 iso and did not see much of an advantage over the dcs760).

Also, due to the black/white subject matter of weddings, + - 2 stops exposure control on the raw and white balance adjustment prior to rendering output files is a HUGE advantage.

So, after my initial poo-pooing of nikons interpolation of the vertical axis... and then subsequent "wait and see" I read reviews - which all seemed very positive etc.

I then followed postings on listservers- including one wedding photographers claim he used the D1X for many weddings and is now selling due to dust issues and highlight blowouts that are not fixable in capture or bibble/qimage...

I am back to going with the DCS760 - thankfully I had to wait a while and now the cameras are actually in stock!

PS - I saw on the kodak site they made a smart marketing move on the 760 pages with professional wedding photographer endorsement (Clay)

Hey,

What goes ??? I have been using the 1 gig microdrive on both the D1 for about one year and D1x for about 2 months. Not a single problem. Flip it into my computer and process..

Noise... dont agree at all, at least on what I take...Can you send us something to see..

Cant comment on the moire as I dont have a dcs . But certainly not a problem on the d1x.

NEF files with the usual software a breeze. The usual is capture 2, photoshop with plugins and nikon view, and cumulus. Tell me how anything is superior. Might be just as good, but we are nickle and dime ing now.

Have fun and take good pics with your dcs...

Andrew Adams said:

HI all,

A good Discussion!

I for one am tired of hearing the "too big and heavy" talk for the
DCS760.
Anyone coming from a medium format system doing wedding photography
will find it relieving to move to the smaller - less cumbersome
dcs760 - try carrying a hasselblad, or Mamiya RZ with all the
requisite equipment for a 12 hour day... granted it depends on what
you have been using

Anyway, I went to a local camera store to try the Nikon D1X in
person. I took some ambient shots in the store at ISO 400 in RAW
with a 50mm prime lens.

Issues: 1) it would not work with my 1 gig microdrive - we had to
shoot with his 340mb MD and transfer the images to my drive on a PC.

2) All the images shot had a lot more noise than I was expecting
due to the reviews and the hype about this cameras 'real clean'
images.
It always pays to do your own test shooting!
3) also there was evident moire' in a number of shots - so no
advantage over the dcs760 here...
4) after working with raw NEF files (I used Qimage - great prog) I
found that the Kodak software/raw file format allows much better
workflow and quick adjustments of color balance/ exposure (plus
ability to SAVE many highlight blowouts!)

Perspective: Camera decision for wedding photography. After my
experience negating in my mind the perceived advantage of the D1X -
lower noise (it has higher iso settings and may be great at them -
I only tried 400 iso and did not see much of an advantage over the
dcs760).
Also, due to the black/white subject matter of weddings, + - 2
stops exposure control on the raw and white balance adjustment
prior to rendering output files is a HUGE advantage.

So, after my initial poo-pooing of nikons interpolation of the
vertical axis... and then subsequent "wait and see" I read reviews

• which all seemed very positive etc.

I then followed postings on listservers- including one wedding
photographers claim he used the D1X for many weddings and is now
selling due to dust issues and highlight blowouts that are not
fixable in capture or bibble/qimage...

I am back to going with the DCS760 - thankfully I had to wait a
while and now the cameras are actually in stock!

PS - I saw on the kodak site they made a smart marketing move on
the 760 pages with professional wedding photographer endorsement
(Clay)

Click to expand...

Mortimer Freiheit said:

Noise... dont agree at all, at least on what I take...Can you send
us something to see..

Cant comment on the moire as I dont have a dcs . But certainly not
a problem on the d1x.

NEF files with the usual software a breeze. The usual is capture 2,
photoshop with plugins and nikon view, and cumulus. Tell me how
anything is superior. Might be just as good, but we are nickle and
dime ing now.

Have fun and take good pics with your dcs...

Click to expand...

Capture 2, PS Plugin, Nikon view one word Slow Slow Slow

Although the weight prevent your spouse from walking off with it ...

You should keep your silence, my learned friend, lest Stephen pass by. He has lately been espied in the printing forum, uttering dark cryptic broken sentences about amateurs who complain about things like camera weight. It is true that I for one could not shoot to shore with a 760 if I fell into a lake

Edmund, Ph. D.

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:

Interesting thread. Does my heart good to know you are all in such
good shape .. and can carry the camera so easily. I moved from an
S1 to a D1X .... and frankly ... the D1X feels like a 50 pound
brick at the end of the day ... so I can only surmize that the 760
feels like a 100 pound brick at the end of the day. Wonder if
they'll ever come out with a digital Minox?
Karl

Click to expand...

You babble, needlessly releasing 3 words. On mine own Ti PB, Capture needeth but 3 minutes to write out a glorious ten bit and 6 Tif. Dost thou insinuate that 3 minutes for a picture be slow, or are you one of these ridiculous SHUTTER VIBRATORS who insist on getting MORE THAN ONE SHOT per session ? Are you some fool who cannot remember sequence numbers and needs thumbnails ? What will you demand next, you spoilt child? That Nikon publish their libraries so that just about ANY THIRD PARTY DEVELOPER can dig around in their sacrosanct bejewelled NEFs ? Do you expect them to GIVE AWAY Capture for free so that just about ANY PAUPER PAPARAZZO may indulge in exposure corrected raw files ? Are you a commie who asks not what he can do for Nikon, rather demanding that Nikon do for him (Abort A0E1 scriptwrite exception chatterbox return post ends#)

RO said:

Capture 2, PS Plugin, Nikon view one word Slow Slow Slow

Click to expand...

Hmmmm Two different tools for similar uses.

I sold my D1 to help pay for my 7500. I -will- be buying a D1X at some point for my personal camera. I miss the size and feel of the D1 and the ability to control the type and quailty of the image. And, it sure seems the D1X put to rest many if not all of the inadequacies of the D1.

But I also really like the heft and conservative colors of the 660 in the studio. And, when funds permit, I will be buying a backup 760.

Is one better than the other? Is a pipe wrench better than a crescent wrench? Is a tack hammer better than a small hammer? Is a philips better than a slotted screwdriver?

All, similar, yet different tools. Just depends on their ultimate use.

Jon ...

Here is sample shot (only one of 4 taken). The Next massage has 333k highest level jpg crop showing noise I am talking about at iso 400.

Mortimer Freiheit said:

Hey,
What goes ??? I have been using the 1 gig microdrive on both the D1
for about one year and D1x for about 2 months. Not a single
problem. Flip it into my computer and process..

Click to expand...

We couldn't figure why his d1x would not allow a shot to fire with my card... it formatted it also to no avail... we copied shots onto my card from the pc...

mgfrei said:

Noise... dont agree at all, at least on what I take...Can you send
us something to see..

Click to expand...

See next massage - warning 300k image

mgfrei said:

Cant comment on the moire as I dont have a dcs . But certainly not
a problem on the d1x.

Click to expand...

don't have a sample at this time so I will differ to your greater experience with the camera. Although even on Qimage web site sample shots with moire and/or aliasing are shown for use with the fringe filter that clearly show it can show up in d1x images.

mgfrei said:

NEF files with the usual software a breeze. The usual is capture 2,
photoshop with plugins and nikon view, and cumulus. Tell me how
anything is superior. Might be just as good, but we are nickle and
dime ing now.

Click to expand...

Just wanted to give my perspective on camera choice

mgfrei said:

Have fun and take good pics with your dcs...

Click to expand...

And you...

Here is the iso 400 noise I am talking about crop from previous message image:



Let me know what you guys think... am I too finicky??

Edmund Ronald said:

You babble, needlessly releasing 3 words. On mine own Ti PB,
Capture needeth but 3 minutes to write out a glorious ten bit and
6 Tif. Dost thou insinuate that 3 minutes for a picture be slow, or
are you one of these ridiculous SHUTTER VIBRATORS who insist on
getting MORE THAN ONE SHOT per session ? Are you some fool who
cannot remember sequence numbers and needs thumbnails ? What will
you demand next, you spoilt child? That Nikon publish their
libraries so that just about ANY THIRD PARTY DEVELOPER can dig
around in their sacrosanct bejewelled NEFs ? Do you expect them to
GIVE AWAY Capture for free so that just about ANY PAUPER PAPARAZZO
may indulge in exposure corrected raw files ? Are you a commie who
asks not what he can do for Nikon, rather demanding that Nikon do
for him (Abort A0E1 scriptwrite exception chatterbox return post
ends#)

Click to expand...

Yes three minutes is slow compared to Photodesk where it might take 30 seconds to write the same tif. As a matter of fact the other day I download 50 images from the camera and processed all in aboat 15 minutes lets see at three minutes that would be what 150 minutes.

http://www.digitalfoodshts.com

No, you are not being finniky. I dont understand what has happened. Is this taken with a d1x and can you provide some data on the exposure, asa, etc...

Andrew Adams said:

Here is the iso 400 noise I am talking about crop from previous
message image:



Let me know what you guys think... am I too finicky??

Click to expand...

David Clark said:

Are any of you getting problems with flare on the 760 - particulsry
with strong backlight?

I fully realize that the lens has a different angle of view - and
the lenshood is not as efficient as it should be - but even when
using a french flag or gobo I am still getting quite bad gosting or
flare in backlight shots.....

Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Try a FlexHood (www.FlexHood.com)

IgorO said:

David Clark said:

Are any of you getting problems with flare on the 760 - particulsry
with strong backlight?

I fully realize that the lens has a different angle of view - and
the lenshood is not as efficient as it should be - but even when
using a french flag or gobo I am still getting quite bad gosting or
flare in backlight shots.....

Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Try a FlexHood (www.FlexHood.com)

Click to expand...

I think I've found the cause - it's light comming in the eyepiece - I work often on a tripod with head far away from the camera....