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Panasonic SLR only a month away!
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Kevin Coppalotti
Veteran Member
The article says it will be shown of Feb 26th. I question Pana's business model on this one, the field is littered with dead bodies, I guess it comes down to price, value for money. I am really curious about this one, but it will have to be something damn good to beat the Nikon D50/ Canon xt/ KM/ all priced very sharp.
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Kevin Coppalotti
http://razorsharp.smugmug.com
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Kevin Coppalotti
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Peter Halloran
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If they are truly sharing technology with Olympus then perhaps the new DSLR will have the live view LCD like the E-330. But you are right, the price point has to be right to make any inroads into the Nikon and Cannon territory. It looks like the new E-330 may be priced too high so perhaps Pana will go lower than that. Personally I would like to see Pana put a larger sensor into an FZ30 like Sony has done with the R1.
I would assume that the Mk 1 Panasonic SLR would largely be a rebadged Olympus E500. I can't see that Panasonic would be able to do an awful lot at the begining. It would be nice to have an OIS body like the KM but that would be a big move at the begining. I can't see them going to OIS in the lens, I'm assuming that they would just be using standard Olympus lenses.
We know the size of the sensor.. it'll be approx. 17 x 13mm. i.e. 4/3rds!
I don't see a 'rebadged' Olympus model... they may use the sub-chasis but I think we'll see 'difference'.
Olympus has stayed away from 'mid' and 'high' end bodies lately and I read something today that said Panny is gonna release a high end body themselves.
Quote:
"Matsushita's move to challenge these established market leaders is being made by releasing a flagship product: a digital SLR camera, which it is hoped will provide a major boost to the firm's digital camera business."
http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/000852
Hence I believe that's why there's ben no similar level Oly to compete against it. (why release similar models that will only take bread from each others mouth?)
It makes sense to release 'a good 'un' first (like Oly did with the E-1) Let the punters and reviewers see you can do 'class' and then 'lesser' models are easier to concieve of (rather than vice versa)
But I don't think it'll be a Pro-level job like Olympus makes... I think it'll be good for advanced ameteurs but won't compete directly with oly's high enders. Make sense?
Hey, just think lads.. we're sorta friends now, aren't we? Hi!
Erik37
Senior Member
Nope, it won't even be an "SLR" strictly speaking, but an EVIL
(electronic viewfinder interchangeable lens) camera.
OIS is a lens feature.
Nope, Leica branded lenses are rumoured. And why not OIS, since
Panny has it in every camera they make.
Just my two öre
Erik from Sweden, F Z 5 owner
The only free lunch in photography: O I S
Erik37
Senior Member
IMHO,
digitals) like the FZ30. By being a DSLR manufacturer, Panasonic
hopes to be seen as a more serious player in the eyes of
photographers.
not too much noise on a sensor smaller than other DSLRs). Also a
pro body would sell in small numbers and make less economical sense
for a company whose R&D and production capacity is limited.
astronomical that the body price was bound to be very high to cover
that, and in that case, why not make a body that matches the
price while you are at it?
I agree with Phil that it would have been better to release an entry
model first to increase the market share, but I think it wasn't
possible to meet the price point back then.
Going back to the Panny 4/3rds body, of course it could be an
expensive affair. The high-spec EVF, Leica cooperation, a Leica
version Digilux 2 successor suggest that. But Panny's late entry,
the fierce market situation, Panny's goal to double their market share
and the aggressive pricing they have applied so far suggest a
more competitive price is possible. I hope for something around the
350D's price.
Just my two öre
Erik from Sweden, F Z 5 owner
The only free lunch in photography: O I S
It means, a DSLR is a flagship product compared to FLDs (fixed lens
digitals) like the FZ30. By being a DSLR manufacturer, Panasonic
hopes to be seen as a more serious player in the eyes of
photographers.
Oly said they had problems finding an appropriate sensor (high MP but
not too much noise on a sensor smaller than other DSLRs). Also a
pro body would sell in small numbers and make less economical sense
for a company whose R&D and production capacity is limited.
All manufacturers did, but back then the sensor cost was so
astronomical that the body price was bound to be very high to cover
that, and in that case, why not make a body that matches the
price while you are at it?
I agree with Phil that it would have been better to release an entry
model first to increase the market share, but I think it wasn't
possible to meet the price point back then.
Going back to the Panny 4/3rds body, of course it could be an
expensive affair. The high-spec EVF, Leica cooperation, a Leica
version Digilux 2 successor suggest that. But Panny's late entry,
the fierce market situation, Panny's goal to double their market share
and the aggressive pricing they have applied so far suggest a
more competitive price is possible. I hope for something around the
350D's price.
Just my two öre
Erik from Sweden, F Z 5 owner
The only free lunch in photography: O I S
John_Reed
Forum Pro
I don't see Matsushita's "Corporate Ego" allowing them to put something on the market which is just a re-branded Olympus camera. And since they've become identified as the OIS "team to beat," why would they release a "Flagship dSLR" without OIS? I have heard that the new camera is "very pricey," but couldn't tell you what the $$ (or öre) figures are.
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Just show me the images, Gull-durn it!
EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty
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Just show me the images, Gull-durn it!
EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty
ErikNope, it won't even be an "SLR" strictly speaking, but an EVIL
(electronic viewfinder interchangeable lens) camera.
OIS is a lens feature.
Nope, Leica branded lenses are rumoured. And why not OIS, since
Panny has it in every camera they make.
Just my two öre
Erik from Sweden, F Z 5 owner
The only free lunch in photography: O I S
Have to agree with everything you said - the DSLR will be a Pana design, may be with a wee bit more Leica input too interms of body design, with Pana/leica designed lenses incorp. IS, and EVF (possibly 0.5MP to 1MP) and all on a 4/3 mount. There was a rumour over on eth Leica forum that the Pana SLR will be the Digilux2/LC1 replacment.
Regards pricing if I remember correctly, just after the announced plans for a 4/3 SLR that it would be aimed at the entry level market but may be they changed their minds and could even intro 2 models.
To the original poster - theres just a 10 days to go before PMA2006.
Cheers
HarjTT
Erik37
Senior Member
Agree with you John, they have their Japanese pride and they've had
3-4 times longer than Samsung from partnership announcement to
launch (but how early they actually started, we can't know). So
they have to produce more than a rebadge. (Which is confirmed
by the leaks.)
Exactly! It's their forte, if they don't capitalise on that, they have no
business sense at all and I would then be the first to agree that they
have no business to enter the DSLR playfield.
Uh-oh, where did you get that from, if I may ask?
I got a hunch it could be when I heard there would be a Leica
version too. (My thoughs on this in another post in this thread.)
LOL!
Just my two öre
Erik from Sweden, F Z 5 owner
The only free lunch in photography: O I S
Neil McKenzie
Senior Member
- No mirror, will use a prism
- 2 sensors, 10mp for image, 8mp for LCD
- Image stabilization
- Leica designed lenses
- Low noise high ISO
- High burst rate in RAW
- Will use 4+ gig SD cards
- Similar in size and weight to FZ30
- Live Histogram for luminence as well as RGB
- Improved low light focusing
- Very high end and expensive lenses availible from Leica
- More and faster focusing modes.
- Starting price with a kit lens of $1200 US
Neil
Quote:
"Matsushita's move to challenge these established market leaders is
being made by releasing a flagship product: a digital SLR camera,
which it is hoped will provide a major boost to the firm's digital
camera business."
Lets take the sentence apart.
Matsushita is moving to challege 'established market leaders' by releasing a 'flagship digital SLR camera' which is hoped to, blah, blah, blah.
I read that as Panny is releasing a high end dSLR.
It seems you are saying we'll never see another Pro based dSLR from Oly? I beg to differ as they're still producing 'Pro' level lenses. You don't make constant aperture zooms for consumer based dSLRs!
Yes, but them you are always marketting against the grain. You're salesmen are gonna have to say 'This is what we brought out but we can do better.. honest! We could have put 'X, Y & Z' feature and settings in but we're gonna put them in the next one... we can do it and do it well.. take my word for it'.
Nah... reviewers and punters without seeing the hardware would be sceptical.
better to bring out the biggest and baddest first.. then lesser cameras are 'lesser on purpose' while everyone can see the high standard. No, I believe this way is best. No-one wuld have bought into 4/3rds if they'd brought out the E-300/500 first! Who'd have bought the 300/2.8, etc, if all you've seen is a prosumer dSLR?
I'd say a high end amateur body.. a good all-rounder but not as specialist as a 'pro' level one.
Come on Erik, you know it just makes all round sense! ;-)
Thats the problem!
4/3 has weak 3rd party support, offers no real advantage over 3/2 and reduces sensor size thats inferior to all the other makers...
Much as I like pannie, I dont think this will be a big seller whatever it is, unless the price performance is A1
4/3 has weak 3rd party support, offers no real advantage over 3/2 and reduces sensor size thats inferior to all the other makers...
Much as I like pannie, I dont think this will be a big seller whatever it is, unless the price performance is A1
If its very pricey then pannie are dead meat........I don't see Matsushita's "Corporate Ego" allowing them to put
something on the market which is just a re-branded Olympus camera.
And since they've become identified as the OIS "team to beat," why
would they release a "Flagship dSLR" without OIS? I have heard that
the new camera is "very pricey," but couldn't tell you what the $$
(or öre) figures are.
--
Just show me the images, Gull-durn it!
EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty
A good price EVF E-500 type cam has potential....but it has to be a damn good EVF...and not the half baked mess that Oly have being the E-330
gil
Forum Pro
will put more pricing pressure on new entry level DSLRs. This year is an exciting one and better if I have more budget for photo stuffs.
cheers,
gil
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Images or nothing.
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cheers,
gil
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Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
Ross
Veteran Member
Hi Neil,
Your first two features have me confused. Are you thinking of a split prism like a pellicle mirror? If so, why would you need a second sensor? I do suspect that the sensor will not be the one used in the E-330.
I would tend to guess two model posibilities. One based on the FZ-30 form and the other on the LC-1 (Digilux-2). I would put the pricey label on the "LC-2" version, as it may have a very upscale EVF and be the basis of a Red Dot version.
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Bob Ross
http://www.pbase.com/rossrtx
Neil McKenzie
Senior Member
Bob,
I am no camera engineer but here is my take. The problem with the DSLRs that use 35mm lenses is that they cannot be placed closer to the lens so that the mirror has room to swing. This has created a lot of problems with regard to sensor size and ful framing with an existing 35mm lens, this is why these cameras are so large.
One solution I have seen is to use a prism or other splitting device, that splits the image coming in from the lens to the sensor and to a viewfinder. I don't think that the camera will use an optical viewfinder but rather a EVF such as current Panasonics and this is why there will be a second sensor - one for the viewfinder.
This solution also allows for a live historgram which will receive its signals from the second sensor. Current DSLRs only have a histogram "after the fact".
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Neil
Kevin Coppalotti
Veteran Member
The problem I see for Panasonic is what wiill be the market segment it will compete against? Take Canon for example, they have low (XT) Medium (20D) and HIgh (5d, 1ds etc). Pana will never be able to compete against the High end, so that leaves the medium or low end of the market. It is an unknown quantity in DSLR so it will be unable to charge a premium price against Canon and Nikon with their full suite of lenses and accessories.
The possible buyers would be existing FZ30/20/10 owners but many of these either do not like high prices or do not like large cameras and lenses.
So its going to be a war out there, choose your weapon of Mass Destruction!
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Kevin Coppalotti
http://razorsharp.smugmug.com
The possible buyers would be existing FZ30/20/10 owners but many of these either do not like high prices or do not like large cameras and lenses.
So its going to be a war out there, choose your weapon of Mass Destruction!
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Kevin Coppalotti
http://razorsharp.smugmug.com
If Panny does come through with a Dslr with a responsive EVF eliminating the need for a mirror, as well as offering clean ISO's... will you bite?
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Regards,
Kirwin
http://timebandit.smugmug.com
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Regards,
Kirwin
http://timebandit.smugmug.com
and also don't forget that before Sony and Panasonic can gain any real foothold into the DSLR marke the new players and the real threat to Canon and Nikon will start emerging with products.
Who are the real threat?
Chinese companies that many will have never heard of yet, companies like LG, Benq, Haier to name several. In 5 - 10 these organisations will be the powerhouses of the photography market.
Who are the real threat?
Chinese companies that many will have never heard of yet, companies like LG, Benq, Haier to name several. In 5 - 10 these organisations will be the powerhouses of the photography market.
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