Nifty new battery charger/conditioner/tester

Vernon D Rainwater said:

liquidstone said:

... than a user report. Sorry, Doug...

--
Liquidstone
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone
** http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/52249061/original.jpg**

Click to expand...

Probably the reason some may NOT understand the details is because
Doug knows HOW to properly discuss the features of about any device
or item that he chooses to offer comments, for the benefit of
others.
Very honestly, I know when I click on one of Doug's posts that it
will be very well presented and with enough details that almost all
of us could benefit from his Posts.
I have and use 2 chargers (from that Co) and ALL of my Nicad
batteries are from them, however; just because I purchase their
products does NOT make me a Sales person for the company, instead;
it makes me a very satisfied customer.
If anyone would look beyond their nose, they would know the types
of posts that are frequently presented by Doug. Doug, keep up the
good work.
I don't need the new charger/test device but it is good to read
your provided information. My previous post was to indicate that I
have been using their products (chargers, batteries, etc) for over
4 years and they are serving my needs just fine.
My Regards, -- Vernon...

Click to expand...

Vernon,

I agree with everything you said about Doug and his good work, and I do try to look beyond my flat Asian nose.

Still, however I read and re-read the original post, it still strikes me as commercially toned, EVEN if I know that this is not Doug's intention and beyond his character and stature in the forums.

Regards,

Romy
--
Liquidstone
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone

In the highest regard. His posts have always been informative and educational. And I have learned much from him without having to post another, "What do I do when?, or How should I do this?"
We should feel fortunate that we have this most valuable resource on this forum.

Those of you who feel you 'know it all' should reconsider your talent and begin posting what you 'know' and back off from those that 'do know' and are willing to share their knowledge and experience.
Thank you Doug!

--
It's not the Tools, it's the Carpenter..

NiMHs accept overcharge very gracefully. That's their advantage over NiCds.

NiCds do not like being overcharged and some bad things tend to happen to them which people then mistake for "memory". I doubt that anyone on here has ever seen "memory" in any rechargeable battery, nor will they, but I'll bet we've all had NiCds with partially shorted cells

The problem with charging a charged battery comes if the rate of charge is too high. So for an "overnight" type charger, this is not a problem for NiMHs. It's not too much of a problem for modern NiCds either. They're all designed to recombine the oxygen and hydrogen within the cell and not build too much pressure.

But if you're charging the things at a very fast rate, then you can have problems and that's where you need some sort of "smart" charger.

I have a bunch of such chargers for NiCd AAs. They were dirt cheap and came with a set of batteries. I bought about ten of them at one time. They do a magnificent job and my NiCd AAs are great - particularly when used with those chargers.

But my existing NiMH chargers are all "overnight" type which will dutifully give a full charge to any cell you insert. It doesn't matter how charged it was, it just gives it 8 hours

But not to worry, they're NiMHs and can stand up to something like a year of constant charging at the "overnight" rate.

--
Jim H.

Doug,

I thought they had no charge memory as compared to NiCads so is the reconditioning necessary?

I enjoy the 15 and 30 minutes chargers from Energier and don't have the patience for overnight ones. With 4 NiMH batteries for $10, if they don't last 5 years, I won't be disappointed.

Thank you for posting this. I am sorry for all the shortsighted attacks.
--
Nelson
http://pbase.com/nelsonc

Keeper Dave said:

...how stupid and short sighted some people are.

Anyone who has been involved in this forum for any time knows that
Doug posts incredibly comprehensive and valuable information just
to share and increase the value of the forum. His site, The
Pumpkin, is the mother lode of information on many subjects we can
all benefit from. To presume or imply that one of his product
reviews is a paid advertisment is, well, just short sighted and
stupid. My guess is that those who do simply are incapable of
Doug's generosity and can't recognize it in others.

Thanks very much Doug, for all you do for us.
--
'Money can buy you a pretty good dog, but it can't buy the wag of
his tail'... Josh Billings

http://www.pbase.com/kprdave

Click to expand...

--I was just about to post the same thing. Anyone familiar with Doug's posts will recall his thorough scientific method. Well done Doug.

On the other hand, we can't fault others for bringing this up, because his thoroughness does indeed look like an ad.
Doug, have you thought of a job as an ad writer.

And for the doubters, can we put this behind us, and use the information in the spirit it was intended?

Jim Rickards

I agree with JHG III. I have been to the pumpkin, and seen the light. There are some amazing articles as reference and resource there. All of the people who wrote complaining about commercialization need to relax, take a breath, and move on. This whole site (dpreview.com) is one big commercial in itself. Think about it -- someone stated in another post that the companies who sell the stuff could not buy adverts as cheap, so we are in a sense doing the evangelizing and proselytising for them. So in a round-about sort of way, we are all engaged in some sort of commercial activity. Mr. Kerr simply pointed out in his own technical way the benefits of a charger which he uses -- nothing more, nothing less.

In the armed forces, there is a saying -- FIDO -- F^%% it, drive on! This I say to all of you...move on, and get over yourselves.

O, and thank you, Mr. Kerr, for the pumpkin. Now Charlie Brown can rest, for the great one has arrived ;-)

It is all about the moment…
once passed…never retrieved…
once captured…never forgotten.

This IS the essence of photography

liquidstone said:

Vernon D Rainwater said:

liquidstone said:

... than a user report. Sorry, Doug...

--
Liquidstone
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone
** http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/52249061/original.jpg**

Click to expand...

Probably the reason some may NOT understand the details is because
Doug knows HOW to properly discuss the features of about any device
or item that he chooses to offer comments, for the benefit of
others.
Very honestly, I know when I click on one of Doug's posts that it
will be very well presented and with enough details that almost all
of us could benefit from his Posts.
I have and use 2 chargers (from that Co) and ALL of my Nicad
batteries are from them, however; just because I purchase their
products does NOT make me a Sales person for the company, instead;
it makes me a very satisfied customer.
If anyone would look beyond their nose, they would know the types
of posts that are frequently presented by Doug. Doug, keep up the
good work.
I don't need the new charger/test device but it is good to read
your provided information. My previous post was to indicate that I
have been using their products (chargers, batteries, etc) for over
4 years and they are serving my needs just fine.
My Regards, -- Vernon...

Click to expand...

Vernon,

I agree with everything you said about Doug and his good work, and
I do try to look beyond my flat Asian nose.

Still, however I read and re-read the original post, it still
strikes me as commercially toned, EVEN if I know that this is not
Doug's intention and beyond his character and stature in the forums.

Regards,

Romy
--
Liquidstone
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone

Click to expand...

Romy, your reason could be because Doug has probably described the product BETTER than BOTH the company that builds them and those that sell them. Doug is VERY thorough and informative.

--
Vernon...

and never entered my mind to question your motives.

It's like uh, all the posts about the flash bouncer brand names, the sensor cleaner brands, and, oh yes, the alternate battery I saved a lot of money on and, oh yes, the remote I saved a lot of money on,

thanks to posters on this forum.

I have bought two chargers from that company. At least I know about the new one and may decide to get one down the line. I first heard about that company on rec.photo.digital on usenet which isn't the same as this privately owned site, but oh well, I don't care really.

Thanks for your efforts to keep those of us who rely on tips and comparisons informed.

Doug is one of the forum's most prolific researchers and writers, and always shares his results with all of us -- for nothing! Nada, no charge.

We all should be free to review on and report our experiences with products we like, including a source for them. That's not advertising, that's just sharing, which is what a forum is for.

And if you don't want to share good information on photography and related fields, what are you doing here, anyway??

Before you flame one of our best members, you should stop and think about what you're doing -- and to whom you're doing it.

And talking about integrity. Examine this thread. Doug didn't just walk away; he's responded repeatedly to those who criticize. Takes a man to do that.

--
jim

Wanna be a photographer? Take lots and lots of pictures.



Long ago... and far away.

I've never seen "memory" in NiCds either.

"Memory" is a myth used to sell new battery types.

The advantage that NiMHs have over NiCds is their improved ability to withstand overcharge. And constant trickle-type overcharging is what destroys most NiCds. It causes dendrites to pierce the plate separators and results in some level of internal "short circuiting" within the cell.

What most people believe to be "memory" in their NiCds is actually shorted cells most probably caused by constant overcharging.

When you have a battery that you think has "memory" just take it apart and then charge it. Now, over a period of a day or so, with no load on the battery, make periodic measurements of the individual cells' voltages. You're almost certain to find one or two cells that are "self discharging" and whose cell voltage is dropping off even though there is no load. Those cells have internal short circuits and should be replaced. That's not "memory", it's cell failure - and it's most likely due to some kind of constant or frequent overcharge, or the cells are just old.

People expect rechargeable batteries to last forever. They don't. If you've gotten a few years of good use from them, be happy

If properly applied, NiCds need no special conditioning and never display anything that could be called "memory". Even the "voltage depression" phenomenon is extremely rare and doesn't persist if you simply use the cells in a normal fashion.

The best advice for all rechargeable cells (that don't have a brain in them like the Li Ion units in our cameras) is to simply use them until they're close to being exhausted and then recharge them as per the manufacturer's instructions. Do NOT leave them trickle charging, and don't run them down on purpose. Just use the equipment and recharge as required.

Occasional overcharging, at a safe rate, will not kill them off immediately either. It just makes more sense to use them until they're close to dead each time, but it's not an absolute rule.

Because of this, it makes sense to use and recharge your cells in "groups". So, if you've got a 580EX flash which uses 4 AAs, but you've got 12 AAs, you should mark them so that they are kept grouped as if they were three "batteries" . You create, in effect, a virtual battery of each group of cells.

Keep these "virtual batteries" together. That way, they'll all be discharged to the same level as their fellows. And by having multiple sets for each of your battery operated devices, you can use them until they're almost dead each time because you'll have a set of freshly charged ones to switch to. This reduces the need to recharge "half charged" sets of batteries. And that gets you better overall life from the cells because it reduces the amount of overcharging you'll be doing.

The improved ability of NiMHs to accept overcharge means that you don't have to feel as guilty if you decide to "top them off" even though they're not run down. And that's a good feature making NiMHs a bit more user friendly in my opinion.

----- Extra thick astronaut-grade flame suit ON -----

• A "battery" is a group of something. A "tank battery" is a group of tanks. In our present discussion, a battery is a group of electrochemical cells. So, for example, a single AA cell is not a battery. It's a cell. Stack two of them in series or parallel, and now you've got a battery

--
Jim H.

I use batteries (or cells? in goups, two, four or eight. When both batteries in my little P&S get low, I charge both at same time in the 15 or 30 minute energizer charger. Either one can charge 1, 2, 3 or 4 at a time so there is not biggie. For the 550EX, I charge all 4 at once. For the CP-E3 pack, I charge 4 at a time but all 8 get charged about the same time.

I agree with you that Nicad may not have any "charge memory". I always place my cordless phones back to their craddles to charge them. I know other folks religiouesly leave them out until they die to recharge them. The Nicad batteries in my cordless phones last just as long as my friends' if not any shorter than the folks who use their Nicads to the end. My cordless drill with the Nicad cells is over 5 years old and is never needed "reconditioning".

Oh well, I respect Doug in many things but have to agree with you on the reconditioning part.
--
Nelson
http://pbase.com/nelsonc

Vernon D Rainwater said:

Romy, your reason could be because Doug has probably described the
product BETTER than BOTH the company that builds them and those
that sell them. Doug is VERY thorough and informative.

--
Vernon...

Click to expand...

Hi Vernon,

I agree.... and it's quite unfortunate that this thread took this turn. I myself post enthusiastic user reports when I get my hands on good gear, though not as well written as Doug's.

I'm moving on....

Romy
--
Liquidstone
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone

could still be of use.

I just wouldn't get carried away and use it all of the time.

Examples of good use of that feature would be:

1.

You've got a set of mixed cells that you don't know the states of charge, but you want to now "group" them. Ok, you could condition them all, letting them experience a few full charge discharge cycles.

Next, you could test them all using the feature that checks for their amp-hour capacities.

Finally, you could group them into "virtual battries" by placing ones of similar capacities into these groups. It is important to group cells into batteries based on their capacities. If you have bad matching, then the stronger cells "beat up" the weaker ones when you deeply discharge the pack because they will reverse charge them.

2.

You've got a "battery" of cells that you know hasn't been run down all of the way for a long time, and you want to top them off for an important shoot.

Go ahead and run them through a discharge/charge cycle. You'll know that they were discharged properly and then fully recharged. They should be ready to go now.

I'm sure I could think of other uses too. I think being able to discharge the cells in a controlled manner is nice to have. It's just that a lot of people seem to think that they need to do this frequently. In fact, by just using them in the flash (or whatever) until they're dying, you get to use that charge/discharge life instead of wasting it in a conditioner.

If a set of cells has a charge/discharge life of 300 cycles, you don't want to use too much of that up by conditioning the cells. Do it when it's needed, but strive mostly to perform the "discharge" by using the appliance that the cells are supposed to be powering.

Modern NiCads and, of course, NiMHs are pretty darn forgiving. I've got ten year old NiCad cells that still work great and have given me a lot of use. But I've also had camcorder packs die very early. I think the quality of the cells has a lot to do with things too.

--
Jim H.

Doug,
Well said.
Ken

--I appreciate you spreading the word and sharing your knowledge of battery technology. No need for a flame suit, IMHO.

A lot of what people do is because they think it's right, and that's fine.

Such as when people say - I always turn my camera off before I change lenses. If it were necessary or desirable, it would be in the manual, but people do it because they believe its right.

But its also good to know how thing actually are. Good hard facts.

Jim Rickards

I've had this charger for about six months. It's not all that new. But it is current and advanced.

Likes:

1. The ability to charge batteries as individuals. Each cell is meaured separately, and can be set in different modes too, eg test, or charge, or refresh etc.

2. When a set of NIMHs fails, which battery is deffective?? Put all cells on test, and the charger will diagnose this for you. Discard that cell.

3. The ability to automatically cycle refresh and recharge repetively until the device measures no significant improvement in cell performance. This rejuvenates the cells - to there best performance - discard the defective low performers if need be. (This proceedure can take 24-48 hours!)

4. If I am in a hurry, I can charge the cells fast. If I am in no hurry (preferrably) I can slow charge to preserve the cell performance at 200mA).

Dislikes:
The poor response from the buttons.

This charger gives you choices to maintain your cells.

I love it.

--
SPy
--

(if there is one thing I have learnt on these forums - it's to think first and say exactly what you mean and write it in such a way that everyone can understand. And before posting - proof read it. Still working on it
~ Please excuse my English - I live in Australia. No offense mates ~

n/t

Doug.... I hope they didn't chase you away. I always enjoy reading your posts, and your atricles on your site.

Don't let them get under your skin...
--
Pbase homepage at http://www.pbase.com/tim32225/root

The only thing I was asking is whether you're an employee of Thomas Distributing or just a fellow photographer. I don't care in the slightest about any other aspect of your status.

You have seen several people here state that your post looked like an add for the company and adds are not permitted. It was reasonable to ask for clarification when all your other responses had deliberately skirted that matter. But I suspect this is all deliberate, to generate some arguments. Fine, if that's what you want.
--
Jeff Peterman

Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
http://www.pbase.com/jeffp25
http://www.jeffp25.smugmug.com discount code: rLhBMD1iJah9w

If Phil thinks a post is an Add, you may find the thread deleted, which is a shame for those who want the information, and may even find yourself banned.

--
Jeff Peterman

Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
http://www.pbase.com/jeffp25
http://www.jeffp25.smugmug.com discount code: rLhBMD1iJah9w