Phil's unobjective review

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some respect.

comments?

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

I think Phil was way too kind in his review. If he was biased it was in favor of Oly.

JK

Why do you feel this way?
And why not say why you think Phil is not being objective.

Look, I ordered the E-20 and though as everyone I would have preferred that Phil and other reviewers give it a glowing review, I will make up my own mind when I receive the camera.

Phil is entitled to his opinion, in my view it would have been easier for him to just say he loved the E-20 rather than to give his true opinion.

Remember that the E-10 was considered somewhat of a breakthrough product, it is very difficult to follow that up with with something revolutionary rather than evolutionary.

Use your own judgement.

I agree with JK. Competition is harsh on the 5 mp market. I do have one comment on Phil Askey's planned comparison with the Nikon 5000. I don't believe the E-20 and 5000 are in the same category. Maybe Phil chose 5000 because he's not done a full review on the 5000 yet? How about comparing E-20 to F707 or D7?

Harry

Jim K said:

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

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I think Phil was way too kind in his review. If he was biased it
was in favor of Oly.

JK

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You've made a statement but not backed it up with any facts.

Comments?

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

Because despite some people's mental picture of me and my working environment I do not have such cameras just hanging around the place. A 5000 is on the way, it has not been compared to other cameras, the E-20 has good resolution and the SAME SENSOR.

harry said:

Harry

Jim K said:

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

I think Phil was way too kind in his review. If he was biased it
was in favor of Oly.

JK

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Hello blang,

That's just what I'm saying in the thread, I just posted ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

blang said:

Why do you feel this way?
And why not say why you think Phil is not being objective.

Look, I ordered the E-20 and though as everyone I would have
preferred that Phil and other reviewers give it a glowing review, I
will make up my own mind when I receive the camera.

Phil is entitled to his opinion, in my view it would have been
easier for him to just say he loved the E-20 rather than to give
his true opinion.

Remember that the E-10 was considered somewhat of a breakthrough
product, it is very difficult to follow that up with with something
revolutionary rather than evolutionary.

Use your own judgement.

Click to expand...

I agree with Blang, I would like to hear what you feel specifically to be biased about the report. I'm really not defending it as "totally unbiased". I think it really is his opinion and not necessarily unfair. Would just like to hear what you say about why you think what you do. If anything, perhaps his expectaions, like most E10 owners were that there would be some signigicant improvements, especially in those areas where the E10 was lacking and for which it had received the most complaints and notoriety (AND DID NOT GET FIXED!). It's kinda hard to mask your disappointment when your reasonable expectations are dashed by a company you have held in some esteem. Just MY HO, Regards, KV

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

Phil Askey said:

Comments?

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

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His intentions were obvious. He wanted to earn that really coOL"HOT" icon by his thread : )

Great work Phil. don't let the very few get you down!

JK

Keeripes. It's not like Phil told you your baby was ugly, man. No reason to protest or get upset.

My reading of the review is that the E-10 smashed barriers and was a revolutionary camera at the time of its release. Phil just seemed disappointed that the E-20 seemed like a hiccup by comparison -- the same camera with a 5mp sensor shoehorned into that beautiful body with the resulting complications. Phil is definitely right about one thing -- at the E-20's list price, it is well overpriced compared to the competition. I'm willing to bay a few hundred more for true SLR, but not $1k more.

I think we all need to get a little less geeky about the technical stuff and go outside (or inside) and take some pictures because that is what it is all about.

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

Phil Askey said:

Comments?

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

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I for one, find it as plainly written and as concise as can be. The testing and proofs are there line for line. Thanks for the hard work Phil. You can't put a dress on a pig and make it win a beauty contest.

Phil Askey said:

Because despite some people's mental picture of me and my working
environment I do not have such cameras just hanging around the
place. A 5000 is on the way, it has not been compared to other
cameras, the E-20 has good resolution and the SAME SENSOR.

Click to expand...

Sensor = CCD ?
Don't all the 5mp have the same Sony CCD ?

Member said:

harry said:

Harry

Jim K said:

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

I think Phil was way too kind in his review. If he was biased it
was in favor of Oly.

JK

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I shoot people weddings portraits ect...the flush time is not much of a problem. speed is great, but not necessary for an application such as portraits.

maybe a seprate section with exlaination of how a camera could possibally perform, ie. sports, portrait, nature, studio.

p.s. sorry phil, on second thought I was a being a little unfair

Phil Askey said:

You've made a statement but not backed it up with any facts.

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Phil Askey said:

Because despite some people's mental picture of me and my working
environment I do not have such cameras just hanging around the
place. A 5000 is on the way, it has not been compared to other
cameras, the E-20 has good resolution and the SAME SENSOR.

Click to expand...

Phil,
E-20, F707, D7 and CP5000 - they all have the same Sony's CCD?

Thanks,
Vitali

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

Hi, all!

My comments are that I think Phil's review was quite good and seemed objective about the camera overall. If I have any criticism at all, it's not so much about the review of the E-20 per se, but the perception I feel Phil may have about professional photographers and their needs.

I do not believe it's fair to assume that all photographers (professional or otherwise) have the same needs, or workflow, or end use for their images. And therefore what are important features to some photographers are less important to others and the fact that one or more features found on a particular camera which are lacking or present on other cameras makes little difference to some of us.

For me personally, I' will look forward to aquiring an E-20 soon and incorporating it into my workflow as I did with the E-10 a year ago. I see some significant improvements and enhancements over the E-10 and few, if any significant drawbacks. I'll probably keep my E-10 as a second digital, as well.

Each person has to decide for themselves whether it's worth to buy (or upgrade) to the E-20 for their own reasons, or if another cameral altogether makes more sense for their requirements.

Nice job on the review, Phil. One final thing, I did not see (maybe I just missed it) any comments about the supposedly faster image review and scrolling around images with the E-20. The specs seem to indicate that some of the "steps" or degrees of magnification have been eliminated. True?

Best wishes,

Tom

Really, I hate reviews that try to be too "objective" -- take imaging resource or steve's reviews for example. In the former, they lead you down the paths, and then in the end just cut the line. I WANT them to put the pros and cons in perspective. I WANT them to tell me what they think as photographers. I WANT impressions because those are the things the raw data doesn't show. I WANT to know what they really are trying to say. As for the later, well, he only seems to write "happy reviews."

My own review of the E-10 had just as may cons as pros in it, yet my impression was highly favorable in the direction of the pros. Without a conclusion/summary section, that might not have been so clear. I'm glad Phil has the balls to put his opinions out there for people to agree with or be offended by. (Excuse the colorful noun)

Dr G.

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

Phil

I would like to thank you for you objective review. Many of the comments dealt with problems and draw backs I have noticed while using my E-10. You are the first one to comment if any of these known problems have been addressed in the e-20. The problem with lengthy times to save files, limited buffer, and noise have all been addressed here before. In a first of kind camera they may be overlooked, but in the followup camera, they should have been addressed. It would appear that the only significant change that has been made is to increase the size of the CCD.

I still enjoy using my E-10 and have taken many pictures with it, but limited buffer and noise on higher ISO is a significant limiting factor. As the E-10 has not addressed these problems, your review has helped me to decide to stay with my E-10 until a reasonable priced camera comes out which addresses these problems.

I have tired the Minolta and the viewfinder is not acceptable. The Sony is not SLR and requires a memory stick and the Nikon 5000 is not an SLR. None of the above cameras have the feel of 35 mm SLR. The Canon 30 is only 3 megapixels which is not quite enough for my needs. Thus it is the E-10 until a better camera becomes available
Thanks again

David Gardner

Phil Askey said:

Comments?

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

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Dr. Gonzo said:

My own review of the E-10 had just as may cons as pros in it, yet
my impression was highly favorable in the direction of the pros.
Without a conclusion/summary section, that might not have been so
clear. I'm glad Phil has the balls to put his opinions out there
for people to agree with or be offended by. (Excuse the colorful
noun)

Dr G.

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...

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Hi folks,

The E20 is not the right camera for everyone. No camera is. I would not use the E10 to shot sports any more then I would use my RB67, and I would not use my Canon EOS3 to photograph a large family group.

In my equipment locker I have film cameras from 4x5 to 35mm each has its use and as well different film types for different jobs.

I ordered the E20 and will move the E10 to a backup role. Most of my business is portraits of teens, childern and models and the E10 is great for that. I used a D30 for about a week and just felt the the E10 was a better fit for me.

Last 15 to 20% of my business was digital this coming year I think about 30 to 40% and thus I needed a better backup then the Fuji 3330.

Speed is not that big a factor in my shooting style, the ease of use and the great lens was a big plus.

A few years from now most pros will have several digital cameras just as we have several film cameras. Maye even more limited use digitals since you can not pop a different film stock in a digital camera.
And we just got to have new toys!!!!!!

rporter said:

I shoot people weddings portraits ect...the flush time is not much
of a problem.

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????

I do weddings and would LOVE to go 100% digital. As a user of the E-10, it is very clear that the one thing holding it back is the flush time.

Please let me know how you get photos of the Wedding Party entering the church, the father walking the bride up front, kissing his daughter and handing her over to the groom and a few quick shots of them at the alter and not run into problems with the "flush time"? I have yet to find a way for the E-10 to accept that many photos in that short a time frame.
I am looking forward to your answer as to how to do weddings with an E-10

John

I think this review is just fine. All of Phil's tests are done objectively and I value his subjective opinions. I think his reviews are getting better and better i.e. more and more informative.

I note that you did not bother to specify any instances where Phil was unfair.

Frank B

rporter said:

I feel that his review is biased and unfair adl I've lost some
respect.

comments?

Click to expand...