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what are these lines in my images

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liza wallis

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I am wondering what these lines are in my images. I don't think I have seen them before and today well over half the 100 photos I shot had them. I should say that today the light was not always bright and clearly in this photo I was trying to shoot a cloud just before dusk, but still you can see the settings below. The camera was reading that the shutter speed I chose was acceptable The little line was centered when I focused so I don't know what the issue was. The red AF came on for some of these cloud shots. Is that the problem? What is that red AF! symbol for? I thought it only came up when there was not enough light? Maybe I should read the manual again. Anyway, if anyone wants to indulge me and tell me why I am getting these lines and if they are related to the AF! and if so, what the heck is that AF! all about, I would be very grateful.

FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/128Sec
BrightnessValue : EV5.2
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fire
FocalLength : 12.70(mm)
SceneType : A directly photographed image
Sharpness : HARD
White Balance : Shade
Color : NORMAL
Mode : Manual



--www.lizawallis.com
 
Liza, that looks pretty bad regardless of the settings. I would do some more test shots and see if you come up with the same results. If you keep on getting these lines return it.
liza said:
I am wondering what these lines are in my images. I don't think I
have seen them before and today well over half the 100 photos I
shot had them. I should say that today the light was not always
bright and clearly in this photo I was trying to shoot a cloud just
before dusk, but still you can see the settings below. The camera
was reading that the shutter speed I chose was acceptable The
little line was centered when I focused so I don't know what the
issue was. The red AF came on for some of these cloud shots. Is
that the problem? What is that red AF! symbol for? I thought it
only came up when there was not enough light? Maybe I should read
the manual again. Anyway, if anyone wants to indulge me and tell
me why I am getting these lines and if they are related to the AF!
and if so, what the heck is that AF! all about, I would be very
grateful.

FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/128Sec
BrightnessValue : EV5.2
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fire
FocalLength : 12.70(mm)
SceneType : A directly photographed image
Sharpness : HARD
White Balance : Shade
Color : NORMAL
Mode : Manual



--
http://www.lizawallis.com
Click to expand...
 
Liza

The AF symbol just means that the camera could not see enough contrast to focus properly which is why you see it more often in low light conditions. Try to find an edge to focus on and it usually works even in low light.

As for the lines I am not sure. The only thing I have seen that looks similar is JPEG artifacts when I have over compressed an image. If you go to

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tony.jacobs/Harvest/Sunset.htm and save the image (right click on it and select save Picture as) you can zoom in on it and you will see what I mean. I have never seen one come out of the camera like this. Check the camera settings to make sure you have not accidently selected a low quality setting.

Regards

Tony
kirk said:
liza said:
I am wondering what these lines are in my images. I don't think I
have seen them before and today well over half the 100 photos I
shot had them. I should say that today the light was not always
bright and clearly in this photo I was trying to shoot a cloud just
before dusk, but still you can see the settings below. The camera
was reading that the shutter speed I chose was acceptable The
little line was centered when I focused so I don't know what the
issue was. The red AF came on for some of these cloud shots. Is
that the problem? What is that red AF! symbol for? I thought it
only came up when there was not enough light? Maybe I should read
the manual again. Anyway, if anyone wants to indulge me and tell
me why I am getting these lines and if they are related to the AF!
and if so, what the heck is that AF! all about, I would be very
grateful.

FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/128Sec
BrightnessValue : EV5.2
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fire
FocalLength : 12.70(mm)
SceneType : A directly photographed image
Sharpness : HARD
White Balance : Shade
Color : NORMAL
Mode : Manual



--
http://www.lizawallis.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
When I first saw this I thought, 'that looks just like the interlacing problem you can get sometimes with scanners'.
So I did some searching and I came up with this:

"Pseudo-interlacing

The effective vertical resolution of a CCD is doubled by means of a process called "pseudo-interlacing".

In this process, the charge collection area represented by each pixel is electronically shifted vertically from field to field by half of the pixel height. This is analogous to the process of "dithering" the pixel matrix vertically at 60 Hz.

Using the two displaced imaging areas, two distinct video fields are created. The resulting interlaced video image may be viewed as an image with a higher vertical resolution. "

Now, I don't know what that implications of that are here, but it looks like it's an interlacing problem to me.That is, the two fields aren't aligning properly and leaving these lines. If it's permanent then I guess the camera has to go back.
Anyone know anything about this?
regards
Ian
 
I'd try some shots with the contrast set to normal rather than hard. I've never found hard gives good results in any camera, usually due to washed out highlights. Also, if it is a 6900 try it in the standard 3 mp setting rather than the 6 to see if the camera is somehow creating those artifacts during the interpolation to the higher resolution. If it is repeatable in most lighting situations, then you probably shouldn't live with it and should probably seek technical support.
 
liza said:
I am wondering what these lines are in my images. I don't think I
have seen them before and today well over half the 100 photos I
shot had them. I should say that today the light was not always
bright and clearly in this photo I was trying to shoot a cloud just
before dusk, but still you can see the settings below. The camera
was reading that the shutter speed I chose was acceptable The
little line was centered when I focused so I don't know what the
issue was. The red AF came on for some of these cloud shots. Is
that the problem? What is that red AF! symbol for? I thought it
only came up when there was not enough light? Maybe I should read
the manual again. Anyway, if anyone wants to indulge me and tell
me why I am getting these lines and if they are related to the AF!
and if so, what the heck is that AF! all about, I would be very
grateful.

FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/128Sec
BrightnessValue : EV5.2
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fire
FocalLength : 12.70(mm)
SceneType : A directly photographed image
Sharpness : HARD
White Balance : Shade
Color : NORMAL
Mode : Manual



--
http://www.lizawallis.com
Click to expand...
Your exposure info doesn't list the file size. Are you sure you had it set for 3m or better. The lines might be jpg artifact.

The AF means you're shooting out-of-focus. Most cameras consider anything 70 ft or more to be infinity. Point the camera at something more than 70 feet away and lock the focus, (there's that half-trigger thing again) then do your shot. I bet the whole thing will look much better.

EB
 
The sharpening set to HARD may do it in conjunction with interpolation.
Leo
liza said:
I am wondering what these lines are in my images. I don't think I
have seen them before and today well over half the 100 photos I
shot had them. I should say that today the light was not always
bright and clearly in this photo I was trying to shoot a cloud just
before dusk, but still you can see the settings below. The camera
was reading that the shutter speed I chose was acceptable The
little line was centered when I focused so I don't know what the
issue was. The red AF came on for some of these cloud shots. Is
that the problem? What is that red AF! symbol for? I thought it
only came up when there was not enough light? Maybe I should read
the manual again. Anyway, if anyone wants to indulge me and tell
me why I am getting these lines and if they are related to the AF!
and if so, what the heck is that AF! all about, I would be very
grateful.

FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/128Sec
BrightnessValue : EV5.2
MeteringMode : Average
Flash : Not fire
FocalLength : 12.70(mm)
SceneType : A directly photographed image
Sharpness : HARD
White Balance : Shade
Color : NORMAL
Mode : Manual



--
http://www.lizawallis.com
Click to expand...
 
Thank you everyone who responded to my post. Rather than respond to each post individually, I will detail my response in this spot... I hope that doesn't offend any of you who were kind enough to take the time to post.
  • First off, I was shooting in 3M fine the entire time (I double checked today just to be sure).
  • hardness setting. Interesting, I started shooting in hard when I saw some photos in this forum that were outstanding and whoever posted them said they alway shoot in hard.
Now here are today's findings...

I left the camera in 3M fine, but Instead of Hard I used soft (KanuAMBC's photos always look superb and this is what he uses). I think I shot a few in normal mode as well. The lighting and the subject were similar to yesterday except that I shot many (but not all) of the shots with the telephoto lens attached.

Again, I have lines. They aren't as bad as those in yesterdays photo, but none the less they are there and in some shots they are just as bad. In this photo I see the lines in the hair above her eyes, in the background, and in the part of her face that is in shadow (between her ear and her chin).

Here is the exif data on this photo:
FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/79Sec
ApertureValue : F2.8
BrightnessValue : EV4.0
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MeteringMode : Division
FocalLength : 31.30(mm)
White Balance : Shade
Compression : OLDJPEG

Now here's the new question... I am showing you these images at 72 ppi. If I were to up the ppi to 300 and print them as 8x10s, I am not sure the lines would be visible. But I still don't know if they should be visible anyway. I looked back over all of the shots I have taken in October (all photos prior to October are on my other computer or on CDs) and they all have photos with lines in them but I guess I just never noticed because none were as glaringly obvious as yesterday's shots.

So... I apologize for this long winded response but I wanted everything to be as clear as possible. I guess I will call fuji on Monday and see what they have to say. In the meantime, I welcome hearing from anyone with any other guesses.

thanks...
liza

 
azil said:
Thank you everyone who responded to my post. Rather than respond
to each post individually, I will detail my response in this
spot... I hope that doesn't offend any of you who were kind enough
to take the time to post.
  • First off, I was shooting in 3M fine the entire time (I double
checked today just to be sure).
  • hardness setting. Interesting, I started shooting in hard when I
saw some photos in this forum that were outstanding and whoever
posted them said they alway shoot in hard.

Now here are today's findings...
I left the camera in 3M fine, but Instead of Hard I used soft
(KanuAMBC's photos always look superb and this is what he uses). I
think I shot a few in normal mode as well. The lighting and the
subject were similar to yesterday except that I shot many (but not
all) of the shots with the telephoto lens attached.

Again, I have lines. They aren't as bad as those in yesterdays
photo, but none the less they are there and in some shots they are
just as bad. In this photo I see the lines in the hair above her
eyes, in the background, and in the part of her face that is in
shadow (between her ear and her chin).

Here is the exif data on this photo:
FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/79Sec
ApertureValue : F2.8
BrightnessValue : EV4.0
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MeteringMode : Division
FocalLength : 31.30(mm)
White Balance : Shade
Compression : OLDJPEG

Now here's the new question... I am showing you these images at 72
ppi. If I were to up the ppi to 300 and print them as 8x10s, I am
not sure the lines would be visible. But I still don't know if
they should be visible anyway. I looked back over all of the shots
I have taken in October (all photos prior to October are on my
other computer or on CDs) and they all have photos with lines in
them but I guess I just never noticed because none were as
glaringly obvious as yesterday's shots.

So... I apologize for this long winded response but I wanted
everything to be as clear as possible. I guess I will call fuji on
Monday and see what they have to say. In the meantime, I welcome
hearing from anyone with any other guesses.

thanks...
liza

Click to expand...
 
Liza,

Your spec below mention:
liza wallis said:
Compression : OLDJPEG
Click to expand...
What is OLDJPEG???

Could it be that you load these pics into an editor that applies too much JPEG compression or a bad/oldfashioned type of JPEG compression?

The effect sure looks like heavy JPEG compression...

Theo
azil said:
Thank you everyone who responded to my post. Rather than respond
to each post individually, I will detail my response in this
spot... I hope that doesn't offend any of you who were kind enough
to take the time to post.
  • First off, I was shooting in 3M fine the entire time (I double
checked today just to be sure).
  • hardness setting. Interesting, I started shooting in hard when I
saw some photos in this forum that were outstanding and whoever
posted them said they alway shoot in hard.

Now here are today's findings...
I left the camera in 3M fine, but Instead of Hard I used soft
(KanuAMBC's photos always look superb and this is what he uses). I
think I shot a few in normal mode as well. The lighting and the
subject were similar to yesterday except that I shot many (but not
all) of the shots with the telephoto lens attached.

Again, I have lines. They aren't as bad as those in yesterdays
photo, but none the less they are there and in some shots they are
just as bad. In this photo I see the lines in the hair above her
eyes, in the background, and in the part of her face that is in
shadow (between her ear and her chin).

Here is the exif data on this photo:
FNumber : F2.8
ExposureProgram : Manual
ISOSpeedRatings : 100
ShutterSpeedValue : 1/79Sec
ApertureValue : F2.8
BrightnessValue : EV4.0
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MeteringMode : Division
FocalLength : 31.30(mm)
White Balance : Shade
Compression : OLDJPEG

Now here's the new question... I am showing you these images at 72
ppi. If I were to up the ppi to 300 and print them as 8x10s, I am
not sure the lines would be visible. But I still don't know if
they should be visible anyway. I looked back over all of the shots
I have taken in October (all photos prior to October are on my
other computer or on CDs) and they all have photos with lines in
them but I guess I just never noticed because none were as
glaringly obvious as yesterday's shots.

So... I apologize for this long winded response but I wanted
everything to be as clear as possible. I guess I will call fuji on
Monday and see what they have to say. In the meantime, I welcome
hearing from anyone with any other guesses.

thanks...
liza

Click to expand...
 
liza said:
I am wondering what these lines are in my images. I don't think I
have seen them before and today well over half the 100 photos I
shot had them. I should say that today the light was not always
bright and clearly in this photo I was trying to shoot a cloud just
before dusk, but still you can see the settings below. The camera
was reading that the shutter speed I chose was acceptable The
little line was centered when I focused so I don't know what the
issue was. The red AF came on for some of these cloud shots. Is
that the problem? What is that red AF! symbol for? I thought it
only came up when there was not enough light? Maybe I should read
the manual again. Anyway, if anyone wants to indulge me and tell
me why I am getting these lines and if they are related to the AF!
and if so, what the heck is that AF! all about, I would be very
grateful.
Click to expand...
I never use HARD sharpness: I don't like the extra jpeg sharpening. If a picture is too soft I simply use USM afterwards (on a copy of the picture of course).

The red AF warning means the camera was not able to focus: such pictures will be out of focus unless the object is at a distance of approx. 2 meters / yards!

In that case switch to manual focus and use the quick focus button. If that still fails, find an edge in your scene that offers more contrast. The AF needs contrast to focus. Some scenes are too low on contrast to focus, and lowlight offers less contrast than sufficient light.

BTW the lines look like severe JPEG compression to me.

Theo
 
Hi Theo. Glad you're back.

There's a new standard of Jpeg called Jpeg2000. They've been trying to agree the new standard for about 2 years and it seems they've finally done it. I've read it comes into force from November this year. I don't know much about it, but for the moment we all use old Jpeg.
All the best
Ian
Theo said:
Your spec below mention:
Member said:
Compression : OLDJPEG
Click to expand...
What is OLDJPEG???

Could it be that you load these pics into an editor that applies
too much JPEG compression or a bad/oldfashioned type of JPEG
compression?

The effect sure looks like heavy JPEG compression...

Theo
Click to expand...
 
Nice to see you back here Theo... I trust your photography studies are going well?
Member said:
The red AF warning means the camera was not able to focus: such
pictures will be out of focus unless the object is at a distance of
approx. 2 meters / yards!

In that case switch to manual focus and use the quick focus button.
Click to expand...
I am in Manual focus when I get this warning.
Member said:
If that still fails, find an edge in your scene that offers more
contrast. The AF needs contrast to focus. Some scenes are too low
on contrast to focus, and lowlight offers less contrast than
sufficient light.
Click to expand...
Okay, this makes some sense and I will see what happens the next time I am in a low light situation with no edges.
Member said:
BTW the lines look like severe JPEG compression to me.
Click to expand...
But this is straight from the camera... how can it be that photos are severely compressed straight from the camera? I agree they look bad, but to my eye they are too patterned to be jpg compression. I don't know what else they could be though.

Thank you for your input
liza

 
azil said:
Nice to see you back here Theo... I trust your photography studies
are going well?
Click to expand...
Sure, although very time- and energy consuming :)
liza wallis said:
liza wallis said:
The red AF warning means the camera was not able to focus: such
pictures will be out of focus unless the object is at a distance of
approx. 2 meters / yards!

In that case switch to manual focus and use the quick focus button.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
liza wallis said:
I am in Manual focus when I get this warning.
Click to expand...
Okay, still, even in manual focus mode -pressing the quick focus button- the red AF warning means "no focus achieved' and the focus is then set at 2 meters.
liza wallis said:
liza wallis said:
If that still fails, find an edge in your scene that offers more
contrast. The AF needs contrast to focus. Some scenes are too low
on contrast to focus, and lowlight offers less contrast than
sufficient light.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
liza wallis said:
Okay, this makes some sense and I will see what happens the next
time I am in a low light situation with no edges.
Click to expand...
Many (most) cameras use a passive focus mechanism that works with contrast. Without enough contrast focussing will be impossible with such cameras. For that reason some cameras have some sort of focus assist or even an second focus mechanism: active focus. Unfortunately this is expensive and only usable at shorter ranges.
liza wallis said:
liza wallis said:
BTW the lines look like severe JPEG compression to me.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
liza wallis said:
But this is straight from the camera... how can it be that photos
are severely compressed straight from the camera? I agree they
look bad, but to my eye they are too patterned to be jpg
compression. I don't know what else they could be though.
Click to expand...
If this type of output persists at 3 megapixel mode, fine jpeg, 100 iso and normal sharpening then I suspect the camera or the camera's software is faulty.

If so, I'm sorry to say, the camera will need to be serviced.

Good luck,
Theo
 
Hi Lisa,

the lines seem to me to be jpeg blocks. Jpeg compression is odne block by block. They are more noticeable in low light or basic compression. In fact the block size changes with the degree of compression.

I just wonderefd is this a small crop from a larger image, as the jpeg blocks are much too big for fine compression unless youv'e cropped this out and magnified it in the process. By and large you can do 7 increases in magnification in the Fine pix viewer before jpeg blocks are visible at fine and 5 at normal.
Just a thought.
 
Just a quick thought:

Have you formatted your SmartMedia in an attempt to clear up these lines? I say this because I have a 128MB SmartMedia that gave me some errors where a few (perhaps fewer than 8) adjacent scan lines in a photo were rreconstructed from data in another image! I had the feeling that there may have been some bad 512-byte sectors in the flash memory that are avoided when the card is formatted inside the camera that will subsequently store the images. When I formatted the problem went away. My card had originally been used in another brand of camera and I didn't reformat it in the 6900 during first use.
liza said:
I am wondering what these lines are in my images.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Liza

If it's JPEG compression problems that's causing this, then I imagine it would go away if you used TIFF. You'd better try it
Best wishes
Ian
 
ianR said:
Hi Liza
If it's JPEG compression problems that's causing this, then I
imagine it would go away if you used TIFF. You'd better try it
Best wishes
Ian
Click to expand...
]

Hi Ian, thanks for posting again. You know, its funny... a couple of hours ago it FINALLY occured to me that shooting in TIFF would be a good way to test the jpg compression theory. I haven't had a chance to shoot today (still sick) but as soon as I can, I am going to test it out. I hope I get some definitive information. I'll report back whatever I find.

thanks again,
liza
 
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