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RAW or JPEG(L) for Whale Watch (limited CF capacity)

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jthiegs

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There is a chance I might get the opportunity to go on a whale watch boat trip (probably 3 hours) while I'm in southern California next month. I just got my XT kit on Monday, and my 70-300 IS came yesterday. I have two 1GB Sandisk Ultra II CF cards. I would like to shoot RAW, but I am somewhat concerned about running out of memory. Perhaps this fear is unfounded and I will not come close to taking that many shots (200?), but with my desire to take advantage of the XT's burst capabilities and since I never before have not had to worry about film and developing costs, I just don't know....

My question is this: Given 2 GB of capacity and the likely length of the trip, would you shoot RAW or Large JPEG if you got to go on this boat trip, and what's the rationale for your decision? (Assume more CF cards are not in the budget and no PSD or laptop will be available on the boat.)

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
 
depends on lighting. probably try a few with RAW, and if the lighting does not look challenging, go over to JPEG. Keep your JPEG settings friendly for post-processing. If partway into the trip you find you have not taken that many pics, you can go back to RAW if desired.
--
http://www.linelight.org/
 
jthiegs said:
...but with my desire to take
advantage of the XT's burst capabilities and since I never before
have not had to worry about film and developing costs, I just don't
know....
Click to expand...
I don't shoot RAW, but I believe it will reduce your burst capabilities. That may be more of a concern than quantity of shots.
Perhaps someone with more RAW experience will respond.

My inclination is that, under these conditions, you will get more than adequate photos with minimum hassle shooting JPEG.

--
Alastair
http://www.pbase.com/alastair
 
I would shoot RAW, without JPEG, all the way (saves CF card space). For JPEGs, the camera does the processing. For RAW, you use a converter such as Canon's free DPP 2.03 (download from Canon web site for latest version). You can control PPI, for example. This is not possible with JPEGs. You can better control white balance. You can reduce the need for sharpening. Using RAW adds a little work to post processing. In the long term it is worth it. When I first got my digital 350D I shot only JPEGs. I now regret that.
--
thezero
 
Thanks for everyone's advice so far!

I think I will plan to shoot RAW, and switch to JPEG if I start getting edgy about remaining memory. At first I was concerned that RAW might limit continuous shooting too much, but it appears I should be able to get at least 5-6 shots in a burst, and I think that will be sufficient.

On the subject of RAW converters, can DPP take advantage of tweaking WB using a photo of a gray card (e.g., WhiBal or Robin Myers Digital Gray Card)? That's two more choices I have to make:

1) WhiBal (I have great confidence it will work well, but it's very expensive for my budget) or Robin Myers (more in my budget, but does it work as well as WhiBal--i.e., proper "light" shade of gray?)

2) RAW Converter: RIT, DPP, RSE, RS Premium, or C1?

Votes?
 
2GB would give you over 230 shots or so. If you intend on shooting more than this, then you really don't have any other option than to shoot JPEG.

If you don't plan on shooting more than 200 or so shots, then I'd prefer RAW for the following reasons.

First the ocean will have a very dynamic range of lighting. RAW will help recover details out of clipped areas better than JPEG. If you want to, you can get a flash to fill in, but you can't do a burst with a flash as it takes several seconds to recharge. RAW will also slow down the buffer.

If it was me, I'd take the 70-300IS (changing lenses in middle of a small boat in the ocean with the water and sea mist scares me), get a polarizer to protect the lens and to cut down on the glare from the ocean, turn on the IS to compensate for the various movements involved, pick partial metering to meter light just off the whales and use one shot shooting mode vs auto advance.

Good luck and have fun.
--
T.Y.
http://www.yido.smugmug.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LAShooters/
 
yido said:
If it was me, I'd take the 70-300IS (changing lenses in middle of a
small boat in the ocean with the water and sea mist scares me)
Click to expand...
Good point. I would plan to have the kit lens and 50 1.8 with me as well, but I don't think I'd have a need to switch from the 70-300, unless I notice an opportunity for a particularly compelling wide landscape shot of the coast.
yido said:
, get
a polarizer to protect the lens and to cut down on the glare from
the ocean, turn on the IS to compensate for the various movements
involved,
Click to expand...
Check. Already have the CP, and planned to use the IS.
yido said:
pick partial metering to meter light just off the whales
Click to expand...
Great tip! Thanks!
yido said:
and use one shot shooting mode vs auto advance.
Click to expand...
Here I'm missing something. Why?
yido said:
Good luck and have fun.
Click to expand...
If I get to go, I will indeed have fun. Thanks again!
 
I would think in 3 hours you will easily fill 2gb with RAW and maybe even with JPEG
obviously it depends how many sightings you get and how long these last
let's imagine you have 1hr of whale ...

I can easily shoot 300shots/hour, and that's just at a theatre! (that's a mere 5 shots a minute!!)

if I had whales, I would probably take a lot more --- you run the risk of having a lot of OOF images and pictures of water without whale, so you have to compensate for this kind of loss by shooting as much as possible

JPEG will give you less waiting for the buffer and more space; RAW will give you the edge afterwards if the WB or the highlights are out.
I would shoot jpeg (set contrast to -2) or buy more CF cards

--
AJ

http://www.pbase.com/manjade
 
One shot vs auto advance is just my personal preference that's all.

I'm like the marines, they don't use full auto on their rifles b/c they believe in making each shot count. I have a 1D Mark IIN as well, it's capable of shooting 8.5fps, yet find that I don't use it, even for sports. I end up seeing something interesting come up and hold the shutter release hoping to get something.

With one shot, I try to anticipate the action and squeeze the shutter release when the moment comes up. Saves space on the card and avoids wasting. Plus servo focus/IS/bursts of shots all eat battery life, which the XT is only good for about 400 at best. If you use bursts of RAW in an XT, you can end up waiting for the buffer to clean and miss a shot you really wanted.

--
T.Y.
http://www.yido.smugmug.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LAShooters/
 
I have been in the same place many times. Want to shoot RAW, don't have enough cards to shoot all day events, what to do, blah blah blah. I just got an external storage device that you can carry in the field. You put your card in it, d/l your photos to it, and keep shooting. When you get back to the car or hotel room or whatever, you can quickly d/l your photos from the storage device to your laptop/desktop.

I got the Epson p2000. I don't have it yet and can't tell you what I think about it. But Phil did a review on it here and so did Luminous Landscape. You will also find lots of info on it in the Storage/Media forum here. It is highly praised for this kind of application.

Basically it is a 40Gig hard drive in an enclosure. You can view the photos on the screen and lots more. And it is most important to note that you can d/l and view Canon RAW pictures - the only such device I have found to do that. I got it at IPictureline.com for $349 and there is a $50 rebate on it thru the end of January.

Basically I figured I could buy more cards or spend that money on a solution that would greatly expand my storage capacity. I have seen the device in person and played with it a bit at the store - it is really nice and the screen is great. You may want to consider this option - hope this helps!
--
jshetley
http://ImageEvent.com/jshetley
 
jthiegs said:
...
I think I will plan to shoot RAW...
Click to expand...
I'm not experienced enough to know the difference, but I hear RAW's great, and I plan to use it exclusively. My opinion is that your 2gigs of memory cards is equivalent to 5.5 or 6 rolls of 35mm film, if you choose RAW image quality. When I used film cameras I would never have used that much in a day, never mind a couple of hours! So I'd be happy with that many images, happy in the thought that I was saving £50 or so in film & developing.
jthiegs said:
On the subject of RAW converters, can DPP take advantage of
tweaking WB using a photo of a gray card...
Click to expand...
Yes. I think matey shows DPP in his WhiBal (tm) videos.
jthiegs said:
1) WhiBal (I have great confidence it will work well, but it's
very expensive for my budget) or Robin Myers (more in my budget,
but does it work as well as WhiBal--i.e., proper "light" shade of
gray?)
Click to expand...
I started another thread the other day where this came up.

Robin Myers' card is indeed the right shade of grey - the advantages of the WhiBal over the Robin Myers are basically the black & white references & the stand and clips and stuff. I asked about the black & white references in matey's WhiBal (tm) forum and his reply indicated to me that they're not really needed.

Look at the spectral comparison charts on the WhiBal (tm) website, it looks to me like the Robin Myers' card is actually a better dark grey than the WhiBal (tm).
http://whibal.com/products/whibal/products_whibal_charts.html
jthiegs said:
2) RAW Converter: RIT, DPP, RSE, RS Premium, or C1?
Click to expand...
DPP has a good reputation & it's free with your camera.

Stroller.

--
Critiques, I love critiques! It's so much easier than taking photos!
I'm a n00b - my opinions may have no value.
 
jthiegs said:
...I might get the opportunity to go on a whale
watch boat trip (probably 3 hours) while I'm in southern California
next month.
Click to expand...
I meant to say: we went whale-watching a few years ago and although the trip was three hours we spent quite a lot of the time chasing around looking for the critters. That's not a cause for disappointment, as we got 30 minutes really close to them - you couldn't have literally "reached out and touched them", but it felt like it. Apparently they are known to bump the underneath of boats who get too close, so we weren't far off!! It was a great experience - we were right in the middle of the school and they we diving in one side of us & resurfacing in the other.

So from my experience, you may not need 3 hours of film, but will be able to shoot your 2gigs at a faster rate with fewer worries about running out. On the other hand, you may find things different in Cali - I went from Vancouver Island. As you'll probably have seen & heard second-hand there are times of year when the whales leap right out the water - I went in September & they weren't doing that, so maybe you'll be lucky!!

Stroller.

--
Critiques, I love critiques! It's so much easier than taking photos!
I'm a n00b - my opinions may have no value.
 
Strolls said:
Strolls said:
1) WhiBal (I have great confidence it will work well, but it's
very expensive for my budget) or Robin Myers (more in my budget,
but does it work as well as WhiBal--i.e., proper "light" shade of
gray?)
Click to expand...
I started another thread the other day where this came up.

Robin Myers' card is indeed the right shade of grey - the
advantages of the WhiBal over the Robin Myers are basically the
black & white references & the stand and clips and stuff. I asked
about the black & white references in matey's WhiBal (tm) forum and
his reply indicated to me that they're not really needed.
Click to expand...
Ooops... I stand corrected by MichaelT in the other thread. As I now understand it Robin Myers' card is the right shade of dark grey for setting custom white balance before shooting, but WhiBal's light grey is the one that should be used for RAW white-balance in PP.

Stroller.
 
The last time I went Whale Watching, it was in Maui. The place was loaded with whales.

To make a long story short, I was lucky enough to take 20 shots. Only 1 keeper. These guys spend only a few seconds out of the water. By the time you point your camera at one, its gonna be under water.

With 2 1Gig cars, you should be happy if you come close to running out of memory.

Here's my one and only keeper.



--
John from Southern California
http://www.pbase.com/domdom
http://www.pbase.com/johnrweb/favorite

F707 and 300D
 
jthiegs said:
There is a chance I might get the opportunity to go on a whale
watch boat trip (probably 3 hours) while I'm in southern California
next month. I just got my XT kit on Monday, and my 70-300 IS came
yesterday. I have two 1GB Sandisk Ultra II CF cards. I would like
to shoot RAW, but I am somewhat concerned about running out of
memory. Perhaps this fear is unfounded and I will not come close
to taking that many shots (200?), but with my desire to take
advantage of the XT's burst capabilities and since I never before
have not had to worry about film and developing costs, I just don't
know....

My question is this: Given 2 GB of capacity and the likely length
of the trip, would you shoot RAW or Large JPEG if you got to go on
this boat trip, and what's the rationale for your decision?
(Assume more CF cards are not in the budget and no PSD or laptop
will be available on the boat.)

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Click to expand...
It may not be fully honest, but you could just buy a flash card and return in. Not the ideal route but one option

Second, while the screen on the camera may not be great, nothing prevents you from being able to delete images that you know did not come out [if you trully missed a shot, why not just trash the picture. Also keep in mind that you do have limited battery life [your battery man not last two flash cards worth in JPEG]. I get about 110-130 images on my 1GB flash card, meaning you have as many as 250 shots. Those bursts can be exhilirating but you may find that you get nothing worth capturing [if so, delete images and keep shooting]
 
Well, oddly enough I, too, am going on a whale watch cruise next week in Maui. I also have two "1 gig" cards, and hadn't even given a second thought to using 200 shots during this time. Maybe I should buy another card?

I would never shoot jpg on something this important.

I will be shooting manual exposure and will try to bracket exposures, but will probably use something similar to hawk shooting, iso 200, 1/800th starting at 5.6 or 6.3. Of course all this depends on light conditions (ie cloudy, bright sun, etc.) Hopefully I will get a chance to change exposure settings during the shoot (if we indeed have a good opportunity). I might switch to TV with a +1 or more exposure setting just to make sure. I guess if I found myself in a real pinch I would switch to jpg if I found myself on the the second card too soon.

Not sure, but think you won't be seeing whales for 2 hours straight. More like a few minutes??? Hope we both get whale mugged! Looking forward to seeing your photos posted here.
--
Chris P.

'If your photos aren't good enough, you aren't close enough.' -- War photographer Robert Capa

http://www.pbase.com/imagestruck
 
johnrweb said:
The last time I went Whale Watching, it was in Maui. The place was
loaded with whales.

To make a long story short, I was lucky enough to take 20 shots.
Only 1 keeper. These guys spend only a few seconds out of the
water. By the time you point your camera at one, its gonna be
under water.

With 2 1Gig cars, you should be happy if you come close to running
out of memory.

Here's my one and only keeper.



--
John from Southern California
http://www.pbase.com/domdom
http://www.pbase.com/johnrweb/favorite

F707 and 300D
Click to expand...
Wow, hope I can get this great a shot when I'm in Maui!!! Here's hoping for a muggin!
--
Chris P.

'If your photos aren't good enough, you aren't close enough.' -- War photographer Robert Capa

http://www.pbase.com/imagestruck
 
Imagestruck said:
Well, oddly enough I, too, am going on a whale watch cruise next
week in Maui. I also have two "1 gig" cards, and hadn't even given
a second thought to using 200 shots during this time. Maybe I
should buy another card?

I would never shoot jpg on something this important.

I will be shooting manual exposure and will try to bracket
exposures, but will probably use something similar to hawk
shooting, iso 200, 1/800th starting at 5.6 or 6.3. Of course all
this depends on light conditions (ie cloudy, bright sun, etc.)
Hopefully I will get a chance to change exposure settings during
the shoot (if we indeed have a good opportunity). I might switch
to TV with a +1 or more exposure setting just to make sure. I
guess if I found myself in a real pinch I would switch to jpg if I
found myself on the the second card too soon.
Click to expand...
Chris

I'm in Maui for the whale season. May I suggest....

Don't bracket exposures. You'll miss too many shots.

Set exposure compensation to -2/3, (0 if cloudy).

While processing my first few hundred shots I noticed they were all overexposed by 2/3 of a stop. I use evaluation metering, maybe one of the other modes would meter correctly but -2/3 works for me.

Make sure you use the AI Servo Mode or you will have focus problems.

I use the drive mode and can get 5 shots off before the buffer fills (this is good for the fluke up dives and breaches)
.

Your other settings look O.K. I use a 2GB card with a 1GB backup I've only needed the backup on one whale watch (I've been on 20 so far).

Maybe I'll see you on a whale watch. I'm on the Ocean Explorer almost every day, Lahaina Harbor slip 10.

Here's a recent shot



Ken
 
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