"glamour" photography, and some of the issues involved

Abby Winters

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Hullo

Partly in the interests of public service, I thought some people may be interested in the issues I face as a nude / glamour / porn photographer. While this is not strictly photo journalism, I guess I am a professional (tho I had never considered myself as such) - I make a decent living from photographing.

Richard Smith raised this issue in a thread on sharpening on the D30 board on Rob Galbraith's excellent site ( http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001445 ), that digital photography is probably used a lot more than people realise in the "adult" market.

(I have posted this same message to rob galbraiths forums, as there are many people who do not follow both sites).

I don't have any figures on it, but I know a lot of my peers use digital gear, and more are joining the ranks all the time. Like PJ, this biz is suited to the advantages of digital photography (fast turnaround, no film cost or hassle, adequate (or more) quality, instant feedback, and so on). My basic kit consists of a D30, 28-135, several hot lights, and a 550ex flash.

One issue I'd like to raise is the percentage of shot to used (what's the proper term for this?). I cannot think of any other genre in the photography biz where 70% of the shots need to be, or ever are "keepers" (except perhaps scientific documenting?). May be going out on a limb there, and I'd enjoy being corrected.

If I take 500 pics, I will use around 350 of them. My standards are not as demanding as a glossy magazine, but they have to be serviceable. So that's a challenge in itself.

I run a small operation, I shoot models, and run a website which features those models. I sell some shoots "wholesale" to other websites, as well (under an exclusive licence). My subscription-based website requires one new model a week to maintain enough interest, keep new members coming in, and old ones hanging around. It is certainly not easy - my website has no banner advertising, traffic capturing, blind links, or pop-up consoles, and I don't spam. That means it's hard to get customers through legitimate ways, but those that I do get seem to appreciate the effort I put in.

I generally photograph amateurs, which I find by advertising in newspapers. I employ a person to liaise with potential models, interviewing them, taking some test shots, showing the models the kind of work we do. Many of the models have never done this kinda thing before, and are nervous and excited.

When I advertise in the paper, I may get as many as 100 calls. Around 60 will not be interested when they realise what it is, or leave a message with a wrong phone number, or change their mind. 40 will schedule interviews, 20 will show up, and I'll shoot about 10. We encourage people to bring a friend if they prefer, tho they seldom do.

I ask them to bring in a selection of their own clothes, as it'd be impossible to tour around a wardrobe with me of the kinda clothes these models wear (hugely diverse, with their own personal touches).

We explain to them where and how the pictures will be used, how we pay, the kind of forms we require them to fill out, the kind of posing they will be required to do. For those that are interested, I'll schedule some in the future, and shoot some on the spot, if they are keen and suitable, and I have time.

For shooting and interviewing, I rent a furnished house for a few weeks, and get the necessary people together. I am based in Sydney, but travel to other cities to shoot frequently, so I get some good variation.

During the shoot, I will shoot the model, and my liaison will switch to camera assistant and general helper (holding reflectors, getting drinks, running power cables, chatting with the model). I try to keep the set closed, in the sense that it's me, the model and my (female) assistant, and no one else. We are all quite chatty, and I am mindful of setting the model at ease, cos coming across tense will show up on film.

I'll shoot for around 45 minutes, by which time I will have filled a 128Mb card (with about 170 1440x960 "fine" JPGs). We'll take a break, have a chat about how the shoot's going, what we are going to do next, let the model smoke, etc, while the images transfer over (USB card reader). I have another 128mb card standing by, in case it's an inopportune moment to stop shooting.

I keep a log of the times I am actually shooting (start time, finish time, etc). I am a bit of a stats junkie, I like to know how many pictures a minute I end up shooting, and work out ways to be more efficient. In the last few days, I have shot between 2.5 and 4.7 pics a minute.

Probably the biggest factor that affects this is the model - if she's a little experienced, it'll go a bit faster. Using a flash (waiting for recharge time, getting the bounce right) will generally result in less pics per minute. Sometimes, we have a lot to talk about, and not shoot as much as we should!

Once I have edited the pics down to a useable amount for the website, I can enter that info into the spread sheet, and know the "yield per minute" (ie, how many useable pics I got from the actual shooting time). My goal is to increase this, of course.

Each city I go to has a directory on my hard drive, such as "Perth, October, 2001". I tend to recall models by the city I shot them in, but I guess any way that sorts pictures works. Alphabetically, or by date, might be just as good. Withing that, I make a series of dirs, one for each model. One might be like this:

01 Ilsa (Mandy)

The first number is the shoot number for that city - so this'd be the first shoot. "Ilsa" is the model's realname, and "Mandy" is the name she will be distributed under. All the files and EXIF data is in this dir. I use Breeze Sys's Downloader to download the pics to my PC.

Once that batch is transferred, we go ahead and do another session, and so on, till we done. Some models might be one session only, others may be four or five.

At the end of the shoot, we work out what the model has done (ie, kind of posing), and how long she did it for, and work out how much she should get (she'd have a fair idea, cos it was explained to her beforehand). I get the models to fill out three forms:

release form
payment received
tax declaration

The release for is pretty standard, says that my company owns the images, etc. I have another form that both the model and I sign, once she has been paid (in cash). This is to say she agrees she has been paid for the work she has done.

The last form is issued by the Tax Office here in Australia, to say that the for the model, this kind of work is a hobby, not a full time job, and so should not be subject to tax (someone is allowed to earn around $5000 a year from a hobby, here, before they have to pay tax on the money). That suits the models (they get more money), and it suits me (no tax paperwork!).

Models often want to review their pictures, so we often have a short session in front of the PC. They sometimes ask for copies. I tell them I am happy to email a few over (with a copyright branding). Then they are free to go.

With a bit of luck, I can do four models in one day, tho that is pretty exhausting (no time for meal breaks!), I have done as many as five (only once!).

That's probably ample information for now. How do YOU do it?

In closing, I'd like to ask that if the kind of material I shoot offends you, please do not bother to post to this thread to tell everyone so. Many threads in these forums degenerate in petty squabbles, I hate for that to happen to this one (even tho it's bound to polarise people).

I look forward to hearing from people about their experiences shooting this kind of stuff, ways to improve my workflow, and so on.
---abby
http://www.abbywinters.com
(some images may offend)
 
I only have one comment. I'd have the model sign the release BEFORE you started shooting. That might offend some people, but the simple fact is that you are shooting a type of photography that offends some people and while the models understand this going in, if one were to change their mind at the last second, then you would have wasted several hours of your time.

At least of they sign before hand, the FULLY understand what they are doing and how it is going to be used.

Also as you pointed out, the better the model the less time it takes to shoot. So why are you paying based on time? Worse models get paid more than good models? It would be better to set an up front price for the shoot and give them an estimated amount of time you intend to shoot. Of course you may be required to pay by the hour by the agency that supplies the models.

Just my observations, I've not done any of this type of work. My location prevents this type of work. (too many thumpers)
 
Hi Abby,

I can see this thread biting the dust fast. I'm in the same business as you. I went totally digital last year. The cost savings are astronomical!!!!

I run a modeling/content distribution business. 99% of my content is adult related and can be found on 1000's of adult web sites. I hire various photographers and demand they all use digitals. Newspapers are the worse way to get models. We go to colleges, bars and clubs, that way we can eliminate the dogs imediately. I ran newspaper ads in the past and it was a total waste of my time which is equal to about $300 per hour. First is the appointment setting. Over half turn out to be no shows, the other half are a mixed bag of nuts. Trust me, bars and clubs are 100% better!

When I do occasional do a shooting myself, I use the d30, with grip, wireless flash controller, 2- 550EX, and 1- 540EX, 2 umbrellas, and I prefer the 28-70 f/2.8 lens. Even though I have a D1x, I find canon's E-TTL superior, and their wireless is untouchable. Sure wish nikon could match it as I would love to shoot with my D1's.

I've got photographers who use 2100's, 990's, 3030's, G1's and all get usable images. On the lesser quality images we sell them for less, as they are excellent filler material. I also offer custom shoots where we will do almost anything.

I use to do weddings and portraits before this and lived on peanut better and jelly sandwitches. These days I throw away more money then I ever made doing weddings : ))

Go to as many trade shows as you can. Great way to make new contacts!! Hire an assistant you can trust totally!!

I am considering attacking the multi media market next, live feeds, video's, interactive CD-ROMs and DVD's.

At one show I was at I met a kid in his mid 20's who moved to Hawaii. He makes $60,000 a month on live feeds, and video's! He began as a webmaster/photographer. Heh, heh, heh, he never had to work hard like we did.

As for releases, they sign BEFORE the shoot. I'll have about 4-6 contracts for them to sign. The more they sign the more I own them. If you can get them to sign exclusive rights DO IT!! I offer more money, candy, etc., usually they refuse, but some sign. If you find a really hot model, she can advance to the wonderful world of movies! The sky is the limit. Age restrictions. Models must be 18-21. After that they are considered over the hill. My competitors use models up to 30, and show it too. I can get more money for my content.

I can't emphasise how important a really good attorny is. You probably already know this. In this business everything moves very quickly. Film is dead. Everything is digital now. Drop everything and go full speed ahead in this direction. The money is that GOOD!!!

Take Care!
Jim K
Hullo

Partly in the interests of public service, I thought some people
may be interested in the issues I face as a nude / glamour / porn
photographer. While this is not strictly photo journalism, I guess
I am a professional (tho I had never considered myself as such) - I
make a decent living from photographing.

Richard Smith raised this issue in a thread on sharpening on the
D30 board on Rob Galbraith's excellent site

( http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001445 ), that digital photography is probably used a lot more than people realise in the "adult" market.

(I have posted this same message to rob galbraiths forums, as there
are many people who do not follow both sites).

I don't have any figures on it, but I know a lot of my peers use
digital gear, and more are joining the ranks all the time. Like PJ,
this biz is suited to the advantages of digital photography (fast
turnaround, no film cost or hassle, adequate (or more) quality,
instant feedback, and so on). My basic kit consists of a D30,
28-135, several hot lights, and a 550ex flash.

One issue I'd like to raise is the percentage of shot to used
(what's the proper term for this?). I cannot think of any other
genre in the photography biz where 70% of the shots need to be, or
ever are "keepers" (except perhaps scientific documenting?). May be
going out on a limb there, and I'd enjoy being corrected.

If I take 500 pics, I will use around 350 of them. My standards are
not as demanding as a glossy magazine, but they have to be
serviceable. So that's a challenge in itself.

I run a small operation, I shoot models, and run a website which
features those models. I sell some shoots "wholesale" to other
websites, as well (under an exclusive licence). My
subscription-based website requires one new model a week to
maintain enough interest, keep new members coming in, and old ones
hanging around. It is certainly not easy - my website has no banner
advertising, traffic capturing, blind links, or pop-up consoles,
and I don't spam. That means it's hard to get customers through
legitimate ways, but those that I do get seem to appreciate the
effort I put in.

I generally photograph amateurs, which I find by advertising in
newspapers. I employ a person to liaise with potential models,
interviewing them, taking some test shots, showing the models the
kind of work we do. Many of the models have never done this kinda
thing before, and are nervous and excited.

When I advertise in the paper, I may get as many as 100 calls.
Around 60 will not be interested when they realise what it is, or
leave a message with a wrong phone number, or change their mind. 40
will schedule interviews, 20 will show up, and I'll shoot about 10.
We encourage people to bring a friend if they prefer, tho they
seldom do.

I ask them to bring in a selection of their own clothes, as it'd be
impossible to tour around a wardrobe with me of the kinda clothes
these models wear (hugely diverse, with their own personal touches).

We explain to them where and how the pictures will be used, how we
pay, the kind of forms we require them to fill out, the kind of
posing they will be required to do. For those that are interested,
I'll schedule some in the future, and shoot some on the spot, if
they are keen and suitable, and I have time.

For shooting and interviewing, I rent a furnished house for a few
weeks, and get the necessary people together. I am based in Sydney,
but travel to other cities to shoot frequently, so I get some good
variation.

During the shoot, I will shoot the model, and my liaison will
switch to camera assistant and general helper (holding reflectors,
getting drinks, running power cables, chatting with the model). I
try to keep the set closed, in the sense that it's me, the model
and my (female) assistant, and no one else. We are all quite
chatty, and I am mindful of setting the model at ease, cos coming
across tense will show up on film.

I'll shoot for around 45 minutes, by which time I will have filled
a 128Mb card (with about 170 1440x960 "fine" JPGs). We'll take a
break, have a chat about how the shoot's going, what we are going
to do next, let the model smoke, etc, while the images transfer
over (USB card reader). I have another 128mb card standing by, in
case it's an inopportune moment to stop shooting.

I keep a log of the times I am actually shooting (start time,
finish time, etc). I am a bit of a stats junkie, I like to know how
many pictures a minute I end up shooting, and work out ways to be
more efficient. In the last few days, I have shot between 2.5 and
4.7 pics a minute.

Probably the biggest factor that affects this is the model - if
she's a little experienced, it'll go a bit faster. Using a flash
(waiting for recharge time, getting the bounce right) will
generally result in less pics per minute. Sometimes, we have a lot
to talk about, and not shoot as much as we should!

Once I have edited the pics down to a useable amount for the
website, I can enter that info into the spread sheet, and know the
"yield per minute" (ie, how many useable pics I got from the actual
shooting time). My goal is to increase this, of course.

Each city I go to has a directory on my hard drive, such as "Perth,
October, 2001". I tend to recall models by the city I shot them in,
but I guess any way that sorts pictures works. Alphabetically, or
by date, might be just as good. Withing that, I make a series of
dirs, one for each model. One might be like this:

01 Ilsa (Mandy)

The first number is the shoot number for that city - so this'd be
the first shoot. "Ilsa" is the model's realname, and "Mandy" is the
name she will be distributed under. All the files and EXIF data is
in this dir. I use Breeze Sys's Downloader to download the pics to
my PC.

Once that batch is transferred, we go ahead and do another session,
and so on, till we done. Some models might be one session only,
others may be four or five.

At the end of the shoot, we work out what the model has done (ie,
kind of posing), and how long she did it for, and work out how much
she should get (she'd have a fair idea, cos it was explained to her
beforehand). I get the models to fill out three forms:

release form
payment received
tax declaration

The release for is pretty standard, says that my company owns the
images, etc. I have another form that both the model and I sign,
once she has been paid (in cash). This is to say she agrees she has
been paid for the work she has done.

The last form is issued by the Tax Office here in Australia, to say
that the for the model, this kind of work is a hobby, not a full
time job, and so should not be subject to tax (someone is allowed
to earn around $5000 a year from a hobby, here, before they have to
pay tax on the money). That suits the models (they get more money),
and it suits me (no tax paperwork!).

Models often want to review their pictures, so we often have a
short session in front of the PC. They sometimes ask for copies. I
tell them I am happy to email a few over (with a copyright
branding). Then they are free to go.

With a bit of luck, I can do four models in one day, tho that is
pretty exhausting (no time for meal breaks!), I have done as many
as five (only once!).

That's probably ample information for now. How do YOU do it?

In closing, I'd like to ask that if the kind of material I shoot
offends you, please do not bother to post to this thread to tell
everyone so. Many threads in these forums degenerate in petty
squabbles, I hate for that to happen to this one (even tho it's
bound to polarise people).

I look forward to hearing from people about their experiences
shooting this kind of stuff, ways to improve my workflow, and so on.

--
-abby
http://www.abbywinters.com
(some images may offend)
 
Hiya
I only have one comment. I'd have the model sign the release
BEFORE you started shooting. That might offend some people, but
the simple fact is that you are shooting a type of photography that
offends some people and while the models understand this going in,
if one were to change their mind at the last second, then you would
have wasted several hours of your time.
I have never had a model back out at the end of a shoot. I think that getting the model to sign the release before the shoot will focus her mind on what she will not do, rather than what she will do, and that'd bad.

Maybe if I get a model that changes her mind at the end of a shoot, and I have a problem, I may considering signing at the start, but until I have a problem, I am not going to worry about it.

The money I spend on the models is not prohibitive. The shoot may take longer with an inexperienced model, but that's ok. Just cos she is inexperienced does not mean she's no good. In fact, on the contrary, some of the best models I have shot have been the most inexperienced - no bad habits.

The reason I pay by the hour is a fairness one. If I was getting my gear off, I'd want to be paid fairly for it. If they decide to do more stuff, it takes more time. When you get right down to it, it does not make that much difference. I can pay them $300 an hour, or get them to something that happens to take an hour, and give them $300. shrug

I try not to use agencies, they are a big pain, and seldom have the models best interests at heart. I have a stack of models on my books, tho, so am interested in opening an agency of sorts. I don;t know much about it, tho.

Abby
http://www.abbywinters.com
(some images may offend)
 
hi,

call me a cynic, but are you trying to "drum up bussiness"?

just out of interest, why use hot lights rather than strobes? just wondered. thought strobes would be better for this type of work as they'd be less distracting
 
They shoot video at the same time and don't want the strobe flash on the video tape.
hi,

call me a cynic, but are you trying to "drum up bussiness"?

just out of interest, why use hot lights rather than strobes? just
wondered. thought strobes would be better for this type of work as
they'd be less distracting
 
Hi
call me a cynic, but are you trying to "drum up bussiness"?
You're a cynic, and I think your implication that I am spamming is rude.
just out of interest, why use hot lights rather than strobes? just
wondered. thought strobes would be better for this type of work as
they'd be less distracting
I have a background in theatrical lighting, so it was a natural extension of that. It also suits the video I sometimes shoot for the site. However, I really want to get some strobe gear, even if it's only to increase my DOF. I am using a 550ex currently, and it's not grunty enough to shoot at f8, really.

Not sure what you mean by less distracting? I reckon strobes are more distracting (and blink-causing) than hot lights.

Abby
 
Not sure what you mean by less distracting? I reckon strobes are
more distracting (and blink-causing) than hot lights.
Strobes are much less distracting because the model doesn't feel like they are too well lit. Models know and understand the theory that the brighter the lights, the more inperfections are going to show up on the final image, so a dimly lit room puts the model at ease. Plus when you are shooting nudes, the models feel much better if it is sort of dark instead of well lit by huge bright lights. The other advantage is that strobes don't get as hot and when you are shooting in a house, smaller rooms can really warm up quickly.

Of course some models just don't care either way.
 
You do not require any models to sign tax paperwork provided that they give you a invoice and receipt and earn less then $50,000 per year from modelling if they earn more they must charge you GST and provide a tax invoice.

Shooting 5 a day is incomprehensible to me as I often spend a whole day just building sets or prelighting locations if I'm shooting glamour for eirther advertising or a magazine.Make up takes up to 3 hours depending on hair and styleing another hour at least before shooting can begin.

I prefer to shoot medium format but will shoot the D30 for caterlog work and certain web or smaller print jobs.If I'm shooting for glossy mags or advertising I'm almost certainly shooting medium format tranny although I'm being tempted by neg lately.

I recently shot a cover for US magazine using a medium format digital back that was a first for both the magazine and for me.

I took a look at your site and was impressed by the unporn style and the surfer friendly design but a little surprised at how hardcore some of your photographs are I admit.

Good luck to you and if your even in Melbourne drop me a email and I will be happy to show you through my studio.
Hullo

Partly in the interests of public service, I thought some people
may be interested in the issues I face as a nude / glamour / porn
photographer. While this is not strictly photo journalism, I guess
I am a professional (tho I had never considered myself as such) - I
make a decent living from photographing.

Richard Smith raised this issue in a thread on sharpening on the
D30 board on Rob Galbraith's excellent site

( http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001445 ), that digital photography is probably used a lot more than people realise in the "adult" market.

(I have posted this same message to rob galbraiths forums, as there
are many people who do not follow both sites).

I don't have any figures on it, but I know a lot of my peers use
digital gear, and more are joining the ranks all the time. Like PJ,
this biz is suited to the advantages of digital photography (fast
turnaround, no film cost or hassle, adequate (or more) quality,
instant feedback, and so on). My basic kit consists of a D30,
28-135, several hot lights, and a 550ex flash.

One issue I'd like to raise is the percentage of shot to used
(what's the proper term for this?). I cannot think of any other
genre in the photography biz where 70% of the shots need to be, or
ever are "keepers" (except perhaps scientific documenting?). May be
going out on a limb there, and I'd enjoy being corrected.

If I take 500 pics, I will use around 350 of them. My standards are
not as demanding as a glossy magazine, but they have to be
serviceable. So that's a challenge in itself.

I run a small operation, I shoot models, and run a website which
features those models. I sell some shoots "wholesale" to other
websites, as well (under an exclusive licence). My
subscription-based website requires one new model a week to
maintain enough interest, keep new members coming in, and old ones
hanging around. It is certainly not easy - my website has no banner
advertising, traffic capturing, blind links, or pop-up consoles,
and I don't spam. That means it's hard to get customers through
legitimate ways, but those that I do get seem to appreciate the
effort I put in.

I generally photograph amateurs, which I find by advertising in
newspapers. I employ a person to liaise with potential models,
interviewing them, taking some test shots, showing the models the
kind of work we do. Many of the models have never done this kinda
thing before, and are nervous and excited.

When I advertise in the paper, I may get as many as 100 calls.
Around 60 will not be interested when they realise what it is, or
leave a message with a wrong phone number, or change their mind. 40
will schedule interviews, 20 will show up, and I'll shoot about 10.
We encourage people to bring a friend if they prefer, tho they
seldom do.

I ask them to bring in a selection of their own clothes, as it'd be
impossible to tour around a wardrobe with me of the kinda clothes
these models wear (hugely diverse, with their own personal touches).

We explain to them where and how the pictures will be used, how we
pay, the kind of forms we require them to fill out, the kind of
posing they will be required to do. For those that are interested,
I'll schedule some in the future, and shoot some on the spot, if
they are keen and suitable, and I have time.

For shooting and interviewing, I rent a furnished house for a few
weeks, and get the necessary people together. I am based in Sydney,
but travel to other cities to shoot frequently, so I get some good
variation.

During the shoot, I will shoot the model, and my liaison will
switch to camera assistant and general helper (holding reflectors,
getting drinks, running power cables, chatting with the model). I
try to keep the set closed, in the sense that it's me, the model
and my (female) assistant, and no one else. We are all quite
chatty, and I am mindful of setting the model at ease, cos coming
across tense will show up on film.

I'll shoot for around 45 minutes, by which time I will have filled
a 128Mb card (with about 170 1440x960 "fine" JPGs). We'll take a
break, have a chat about how the shoot's going, what we are going
to do next, let the model smoke, etc, while the images transfer
over (USB card reader). I have another 128mb card standing by, in
case it's an inopportune moment to stop shooting.

I keep a log of the times I am actually shooting (start time,
finish time, etc). I am a bit of a stats junkie, I like to know how
many pictures a minute I end up shooting, and work out ways to be
more efficient. In the last few days, I have shot between 2.5 and
4.7 pics a minute.

Probably the biggest factor that affects this is the model - if
she's a little experienced, it'll go a bit faster. Using a flash
(waiting for recharge time, getting the bounce right) will
generally result in less pics per minute. Sometimes, we have a lot
to talk about, and not shoot as much as we should!

Once I have edited the pics down to a useable amount for the
website, I can enter that info into the spread sheet, and know the
"yield per minute" (ie, how many useable pics I got from the actual
shooting time). My goal is to increase this, of course.

Each city I go to has a directory on my hard drive, such as "Perth,
October, 2001". I tend to recall models by the city I shot them in,
but I guess any way that sorts pictures works. Alphabetically, or
by date, might be just as good. Withing that, I make a series of
dirs, one for each model. One might be like this:

01 Ilsa (Mandy)

The first number is the shoot number for that city - so this'd be
the first shoot. "Ilsa" is the model's realname, and "Mandy" is the
name she will be distributed under. All the files and EXIF data is
in this dir. I use Breeze Sys's Downloader to download the pics to
my PC.

Once that batch is transferred, we go ahead and do another session,
and so on, till we done. Some models might be one session only,
others may be four or five.

At the end of the shoot, we work out what the model has done (ie,
kind of posing), and how long she did it for, and work out how much
she should get (she'd have a fair idea, cos it was explained to her
beforehand). I get the models to fill out three forms:

release form
payment received
tax declaration

The release for is pretty standard, says that my company owns the
images, etc. I have another form that both the model and I sign,
once she has been paid (in cash). This is to say she agrees she has
been paid for the work she has done.

The last form is issued by the Tax Office here in Australia, to say
that the for the model, this kind of work is a hobby, not a full
time job, and so should not be subject to tax (someone is allowed
to earn around $5000 a year from a hobby, here, before they have to
pay tax on the money). That suits the models (they get more money),
and it suits me (no tax paperwork!).

Models often want to review their pictures, so we often have a
short session in front of the PC. They sometimes ask for copies. I
tell them I am happy to email a few over (with a copyright
branding). Then they are free to go.

With a bit of luck, I can do four models in one day, tho that is
pretty exhausting (no time for meal breaks!), I have done as many
as five (only once!).

That's probably ample information for now. How do YOU do it?

In closing, I'd like to ask that if the kind of material I shoot
offends you, please do not bother to post to this thread to tell
everyone so. Many threads in these forums degenerate in petty
squabbles, I hate for that to happen to this one (even tho it's
bound to polarise people).

I look forward to hearing from people about their experiences
shooting this kind of stuff, ways to improve my workflow, and so on.

--
-abby
http://www.abbywinters.com
(some images may offend)
 
I am surprised that there has been no comment on the quality of the shots.

There are a great many very talented nude/glamour photographers working today, and a lot can be learned by looking at their lighting, composition and attention to detail.

It would help I am sure, if you were to avoid bits of cable creased bits of material and clutter in your backgrounds.

Theatrical lighting is very often unsympathetic to beauty/glamour shots, you don't have to flood every aspect of the subject with lights to create beauty, interest and mood.

But if it's only titillation you are after...................

Barry
 
Interesting thread. Though I don't do any model photography, I find it an interesting insight into your type of work. Thanks for sharing.
I hope this thread continues and doesn't cause too many flames.

Steve
Hullo

Partly in the interests of public service, I thought some people
may be interested in the issues I face as a nude / glamour / porn
photographer. While this is not strictly photo journalism, I guess
I am a professional (tho I had never considered myself as such) - I
make a decent living from photographing.
 
I am surprised that there has been no comment on the quality of
the shots.

There are a great many very talented nude/glamour photographers
working today, and a lot can be learned by looking at their
lighting, composition and attention to detail.

It would help I am sure, if you were to avoid bits of cable creased
bits of material and clutter in your backgrounds.

Theatrical lighting is very often unsympathetic to beauty/glamour
shots, you don't have to flood every aspect of the subject with
lights to create beauty, interest and mood.

But if it's only titillation you are after...................

Barry
Barry, my clients are not inspecting image quality the same way as you would. As long as the image is lit well enough, and in focus, they are more interesting in examining the models ; )

As a foot note, the quality ranges from good-v. good-excellent.
Ironically, the quality has the least effect of price in this business.

JK
 
This is extremely interesting. I have always considered model photography, but I didn't know where to start. This thread has given me a lot of ideas, and I see a big opportunity already. Does anyone have any other advice?
Steve
Hullo

Partly in the interests of public service, I thought some people
may be interested in the issues I face as a nude / glamour / porn
photographer. While this is not strictly photo journalism, I guess
I am a professional (tho I had never considered myself as such) - I
make a decent living from photographing.
 
If you are just getting started and have never really done it before, go to a local agency and hire some girls who have done the type of photography you want to do. Let them teach you how it is done. (in other words, shoot them and see what they do) You can really learn a lot as a photographer from a good model. Local girls from agencies will be a little more expensive, but it is worth it as a learning tool. Once you get the hang of it, unless you plan to generate a lot of cash, switch to local college students/girls from the local burger joint/strip club or whatever, they are cheaper, easier to find and enjoy doing it.
This is extremely interesting. I have always considered model
photography, but I didn't know where to start. This thread has
given me a lot of ideas, and I see a big opportunity already. Does
anyone have any other advice?
 
Abby,nice of you to be so open and share your real time work flow and experiences. I have done fashion and glamour and commercial advertising for many years from Hustler to SCREW Magiazines and you shoot to the quality they require. I have worked on many movie sets from The French Connection to The Devil in Miss Jones (XXX) and again the quality of the production limits your own work, and you have a good handel on your product and customer base, nice job. Good luck and good shooting. I am working a glamour web site of my own, and have been commissioned to do some videos and webs.

http://members.localnet.com/~endoline/JPresters/

The best always,
JP Photography
Hullo

Partly in the interests of public service, I thought some people
may be interested in the issues I face as a nude / glamour / porn
photographer. While this is not strictly photo journalism, I guess
I am a professional (tho I had never considered myself as such) - I
make a decent living from photographing.

Richard Smith raised this issue in a thread on sharpening on the
D30 board on Rob Galbraith's excellent site

( http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001445 ), that digital photography is probably used a lot more than people realise in the "adult" market.

(I have posted this same message to rob galbraiths forums, as there
are many people who do not follow both sites).

I don't have any figures on it, but I know a lot of my peers use
digital gear, and more are joining the ranks all the time. Like PJ,
this biz is suited to the advantages of digital photography (fast
turnaround, no film cost or hassle, adequate (or more) quality,
instant feedback, and so on). My basic kit consists of a D30,
28-135, several hot lights, and a 550ex flash.

One issue I'd like to raise is the percentage of shot to used
(what's the proper term for this?). I cannot think of any other
genre in the photography biz where 70% of the shots need to be, or
ever are "keepers" (except perhaps scientific documenting?). May be
going out on a limb there, and I'd enjoy being corrected.

If I take 500 pics, I will use around 350 of them. My standards are
not as demanding as a glossy magazine, but they have to be
serviceable. So that's a challenge in itself.

I run a small operation, I shoot models, and run a website which
features those models. I sell some shoots "wholesale" to other
websites, as well (under an exclusive licence). My
subscription-based website requires one new model a week to
maintain enough interest, keep new members coming in, and old ones
hanging around. It is certainly not easy - my website has no banner
advertising, traffic capturing, blind links, or pop-up consoles,
and I don't spam. That means it's hard to get customers through
legitimate ways, but those that I do get seem to appreciate the
effort I put in.

I generally photograph amateurs, which I find by advertising in
newspapers. I employ a person to liaise with potential models,
interviewing them, taking some test shots, showing the models the
kind of work we do. Many of the models have never done this kinda
thing before, and are nervous and excited.

When I advertise in the paper, I may get as many as 100 calls.
Around 60 will not be interested when they realise what it is, or
leave a message with a wrong phone number, or change their mind. 40
will schedule interviews, 20 will show up, and I'll shoot about 10.
We encourage people to bring a friend if they prefer, tho they
seldom do.

I ask them to bring in a selection of their own clothes, as it'd be
impossible to tour around a wardrobe with me of the kinda clothes
these models wear (hugely diverse, with their own personal touches).

We explain to them where and how the pictures will be used, how we
pay, the kind of forms we require them to fill out, the kind of
posing they will be required to do. For those that are interested,
I'll schedule some in the future, and shoot some on the spot, if
they are keen and suitable, and I have time.

For shooting and interviewing, I rent a furnished house for a few
weeks, and get the necessary people together. I am based in Sydney,
but travel to other cities to shoot frequently, so I get some good
variation.

During the shoot, I will shoot the model, and my liaison will
switch to camera assistant and general helper (holding reflectors,
getting drinks, running power cables, chatting with the model). I
try to keep the set closed, in the sense that it's me, the model
and my (female) assistant, and no one else. We are all quite
chatty, and I am mindful of setting the model at ease, cos coming
across tense will show up on film.

I'll shoot for around 45 minutes, by which time I will have filled
a 128Mb card (with about 170 1440x960 "fine" JPGs). We'll take a
break, have a chat about how the shoot's going, what we are going
to do next, let the model smoke, etc, while the images transfer
over (USB card reader). I have another 128mb card standing by, in
case it's an inopportune moment to stop shooting.

I keep a log of the times I am actually shooting (start time,
finish time, etc). I am a bit of a stats junkie, I like to know how
many pictures a minute I end up shooting, and work out ways to be
more efficient. In the last few days, I have shot between 2.5 and
4.7 pics a minute.

Probably the biggest factor that affects this is the model - if
she's a little experienced, it'll go a bit faster. Using a flash
(waiting for recharge time, getting the bounce right) will
generally result in less pics per minute. Sometimes, we have a lot
to talk about, and not shoot as much as we should!

Once I have edited the pics down to a useable amount for the
website, I can enter that info into the spread sheet, and know the
"yield per minute" (ie, how many useable pics I got from the actual
shooting time). My goal is to increase this, of course.

Each city I go to has a directory on my hard drive, such as "Perth,
October, 2001". I tend to recall models by the city I shot them in,
but I guess any way that sorts pictures works. Alphabetically, or
by date, might be just as good. Withing that, I make a series of
dirs, one for each model. One might be like this:

01 Ilsa (Mandy)

The first number is the shoot number for that city - so this'd be
the first shoot. "Ilsa" is the model's realname, and "Mandy" is the
name she will be distributed under. All the files and EXIF data is
in this dir. I use Breeze Sys's Downloader to download the pics to
my PC.

Once that batch is transferred, we go ahead and do another session,
and so on, till we done. Some models might be one session only,
others may be four or five.

At the end of the shoot, we work out what the model has done (ie,
kind of posing), and how long she did it for, and work out how much
she should get (she'd have a fair idea, cos it was explained to her
beforehand). I get the models to fill out three forms:

release form
payment received
tax declaration

The release for is pretty standard, says that my company owns the
images, etc. I have another form that both the model and I sign,
once she has been paid (in cash). This is to say she agrees she has
been paid for the work she has done.

The last form is issued by the Tax Office here in Australia, to say
that the for the model, this kind of work is a hobby, not a full
time job, and so should not be subject to tax (someone is allowed
to earn around $5000 a year from a hobby, here, before they have to
pay tax on the money). That suits the models (they get more money),
and it suits me (no tax paperwork!).

Models often want to review their pictures, so we often have a
short session in front of the PC. They sometimes ask for copies. I
tell them I am happy to email a few over (with a copyright
branding). Then they are free to go.

With a bit of luck, I can do four models in one day, tho that is
pretty exhausting (no time for meal breaks!), I have done as many
as five (only once!).

That's probably ample information for now. How do YOU do it?

In closing, I'd like to ask that if the kind of material I shoot
offends you, please do not bother to post to this thread to tell
everyone so. Many threads in these forums degenerate in petty
squabbles, I hate for that to happen to this one (even tho it's
bound to polarise people).

I look forward to hearing from people about their experiences
shooting this kind of stuff, ways to improve my workflow, and so on.

--
-abby
http://www.abbywinters.com
(some images may offend)
 

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