Less trash talk, more photo talk

  • Thread starter Thread starter Phil Askey
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Phil Askey

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Hey guys,

It's clear that standards have dropped here, it's clear that a minority of posters have turned to troll activity and are deliberately baiting other 'happier' owners.

My advice to regular posters:

Ignore the trolls, if you see a message you consider to be flame bait just ignore it, these baiters just wait for your response so they can stir things up even further.

Trolls:

I have compiled a list of userid's and I'll be monitoring the forum, I'll be quite happy to ban those users who break our rules:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/rules.asp

A bad photographer blames his camera first.
 
I hope that your post (and subsequent actions, if necessary) are effective. Sans trolls, I find this forum very enjoyable and informative, worth a daily visit.
Hey guys,

It's clear that standards have dropped here, it's clear that a
minority of posters have turned to troll activity and are
deliberately baiting other 'happier' owners.

My advice to regular posters:

Ignore the trolls, if you see a message you consider to be flame
bait just ignore it, these baiters just wait for your response so
they can stir things up even further.

Trolls:

I have compiled a list of userid's and I'll be monitoring the
forum, I'll be quite happy to ban those users who break our rules:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/rules.asp

A bad photographer blames his camera first.
 
Phil,

Do you have this problem on other forums?

Larry
Hey guys,

It's clear that standards have dropped here, it's clear that a
minority of posters have turned to troll activity and are
deliberately baiting other 'happier' owners.

My advice to regular posters:

Ignore the trolls, if you see a message you consider to be flame
bait just ignore it, these baiters just wait for your response so
they can stir things up even further.

Trolls:

I have compiled a list of userid's and I'll be monitoring the
forum, I'll be quite happy to ban those users who break our rules:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/rules.asp

A bad photographer blames his camera first.
 
Right on my brothers! If people would only READ the manual and ask for help at their local camera store/club they would be happier with their camera and might even learn a thing or two about photography.

Giulio
Do you have this problem on other forums?

Larry
Hey guys,

It's clear that standards have dropped here, it's clear that a
minority of posters have turned to troll activity and are
deliberately baiting other 'happier' owners.

My advice to regular posters:

Ignore the trolls, if you see a message you consider to be flame
bait just ignore it, these baiters just wait for your response so
they can stir things up even further.

Trolls:

I have compiled a list of userid's and I'll be monitoring the
forum, I'll be quite happy to ban those users who break our rules:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/rules.asp

A bad photographer blames his camera first.
 
If people would only READ the manual and ask
for help at their local camera store/club they would be happier
with their camera and might even learn a thing or two about
photography.
Who says the "local camera store" knows anything about cameras? Especially here in the UK! Once they have sold the camera to you they are not interested in anything else.

I bet each one of us knows much more than those guys working at a camera store and trying to sell a camera.

There are only a few exceptions and it took me a looooong time until I found one. Jessops are not one of the exceptions!

Pabletto
 
If people would only READ the manual and ask
for help at their local camera store/club they would be happier
with their camera and might even learn a thing or two about
photography.
Who says the "local camera store" knows anything about cameras?
Especially here in the UK! Once they have sold the camera to you
they are not interested in anything else.
I bet each one of us knows much more than those guys working at a
camera store and trying to sell a camera.
There are only a few exceptions and it took me a looooong time
until I found one. Jessops are not one of the exceptions!

Pabletto
I take offense at that Pabletto. I spent many years working in a specialty camera store - actually, in many of them. There are many people on this forum that I can still learn many things from, but overall I prided myself on knowing much more about the equipment i was selling and photography overall than my customers did. How could I expect them to want to purchase from me if I wasn't able to answering their questions on the camera equipment they were interested in or to help them later on if they came back with problems or questions how to improve their pictures?

My wife still currently works as a salesperson and manager of a camera store and she is extremely knowegable on all the equipment that she sells. Of course, since she is a woman, that causes additional problems. Many customers, especially men, will actually ask if they can speak to one of the male salespeople instead assuming they will know more about cameras and photography than she will. Little do they realize that my wife is the one that trained these men in the store on everything they know and if they don't have an answer they still go to her to get one!

I do understand your point though as many, many salespeople working in cameras stores are very much undertrained or not educated enough about the equipment they are selling, but to say that "only a few" of the many people working in sales selling cameras don't know anything is too broad of a statement and an insult to the many of us that have spent the time and effort to be as educated and up-to-date as possible with knowege pertaining to our industry and the products that we sell. There ARE professionals among us and we take pride in this. I don't know Jessops as I'm not in the UK (although I have seen the name mentioned in this forum before. I assume they are a large chain operation), I'm in the USA, but if Jessops doesn't want to hire qualified salespeople there must be a smaller, well run specialty camera store somewhere you can go to. Usually, if you can find where the local Pro's purchase their equipment you will find more qualified salespeople.
 
If people would only READ the manual and ask
for help at their local camera store/club they would be happier
with their camera and might even learn a thing or two about
photography.
Who says the "local camera store" knows anything about cameras?
Especially here in the UK! Once they have sold the camera to you
they are not interested in anything else.
I bet each one of us knows much more than those guys working at a
camera store and trying to sell a camera.
There are only a few exceptions and it took me a looooong time
until I found one. Jessops are not one of the exceptions!

Pabletto
I take offense at that Pabletto. I spent many years working in a
specialty camera store - actually, in many of them. There are many
people on this forum that I can still learn many things from, but
overall I prided myself on knowing much more about the equipment i
was selling and photography overall than my customers did. How
could I expect them to want to purchase from me if I wasn't able to
answering their questions on the camera equipment they were
interested in or to help them later on if they came back with
problems or questions how to improve their pictures?
My wife still currently works as a salesperson and manager of a
camera store and she is extremely knowegable on all the equipment
that she sells. Of course, since she is a woman, that causes
additional problems. Many customers, especially men, will actually
ask if they can speak to one of the male salespeople instead
assuming they will know more about cameras and photography than she
will. Little do they realize that my wife is the one that trained
these men in the store on everything they know and if they don't
have an answer they still go to her to get one!
I do understand your point though as many, many salespeople working
in cameras stores are very much undertrained or not educated enough
about the equipment they are selling, but to say that "only a few"
of the many people working in sales selling cameras don't know
anything is too broad of a statement and an insult to the many of
us that have spent the time and effort to be as educated and
up-to-date as possible with knowege pertaining to our industry and
the products that we sell. There ARE professionals among us and we
take pride in this. I don't know Jessops as I'm not in the UK
(although I have seen the name mentioned in this forum before. I
assume they are a large chain operation), I'm in the USA, but if
Jessops doesn't want to hire qualified salespeople there must be a
smaller, well run specialty camera store somewhere you can go to.
Usually, if you can find where the local Pro's purchase their
equipment you will find more qualified salespeople.
Unfortunately Jessops are killing the small camera shop in the UK. I have had nothing but problems with every major purchase I have made from Jessops - to the point where I now go elsewhere to buy my major gear, even if I have to pay a higher price. Jessops have taken over a large number of smaller chains and are expanding their number of shops in the UK. Unfortunately they do not appear to train theor staff at all. Thee is usually only one or two trained people per shop.
 
Unfortunately Jessops are killing the small camera shop in the UK.
I have had nothing but problems with every major purchase I have
made from Jessops - to the point where I now go elsewhere to buy my
major gear, even if I have to pay a higher price. Jessops have
taken over a large number of smaller chains and are expanding their
number of shops in the UK. Unfortunately they do not appear to
train theor staff at all. Thee is usually only one or two trained
people per shop.
This isn't my experience over the last 25 years. While I've
encountered a few occasions where staff have sbeen lacking
on the vast majority of occasions the staff have been excellent
which is one reason I've gone back. I've had a couple of
problems which have taken around an hour to sort out in
the shop and the persistence and patience (and success)
were exemplary.

Things may vary by region perhaps. Or just luck.

----------------
Andrew.
 
Giulio Sciorio wrote:
If people would only READ the manual

Hi Giulio- I plan on doing just that, and hopefully when I get the camera tomorrow the manual will be better written & more comprehensive than my other digital camera manuals that were pretty much useless-

and ask
for help at their local camera store/club they would be happier
with their camera
I'd love to be able to do that too, but unfortunately that's not an option for me- I live in a very rural area- the nearest city (population -1,000) boasts a post office and a used car lot- so if any of my questions in the future about the usage of this camera seem redundant to well-practiced users, hopefully it can be overlooked as a true desire to get the most out of a wonderful camera :)
 
Well reading a manual doesn't mean you're going to memorize it!

If its PDF it helps, because you can then search in it more easily!

The manual for my Kodak professional camera is PDF and its great. I can print only the pages I want!

BC
Hi Giulio- I plan on doing just that, and hopefully when I get the
camera tomorrow the manual will be better written & more
comprehensive than my other digital camera manuals that were pretty
much useless-

and ask
for help at their local camera store/club they would be happier
with their camera
I'd love to be able to do that too, but unfortunately that's not an
option for me- I live in a very rural area- the nearest city
(population -1,000) boasts a post office and a used car lot- so if
any of my questions in the future about the usage of this camera
seem redundant to well-practiced users, hopefully it can be
overlooked as a true desire to get the most out of a wonderful
camera :)
 
I take offense at that Pabletto. I spent many years working in a
specialty camera store - actually, in many of them.
I did not mean any offense for you or anyone else in this forum personally. I do not mean any offense to any other salesmen and managers either, male or female, who know how to do their jobs. You seem to know what you are doing and I do admire and respect people like you. What I said was maybe very general and I apologise if it was. Of course I did not mean people who know their job. If one does not know their job, then they should quit and let someone else do the job better than them. Because such people are just a waste of time and money for the shop-owners and waste of patience lots of trouble and hassle for the customers.
Damn all those stupid salespersons!!!!

Congratulations to all those who work in a correct manner and as responsibly as you do!!!!!
How
could I expect them to want to purchase from me if I wasn't able to
answering their questions on the camera equipment they were
interested in or to help them later on if they came back with
problems or questions how to improve their pictures?
Congratulations to you! You seem to have grasped the meaning of good buisiness. Unfortunately, not anyone thinks like this. Everytime I need to buy something I prefer going to a shop that I know I will receive good service and have my questions answered. Even if I have to pay a little more (which is usually not the case). And then I will of course go back to that shop to buy anything else I need. And again....and again....and again....and again......... :)
My wife still currently works as a salesperson and manager of a
camera store and she is extremely knowegable on all the equipment
that she sells.
Give my Congratulations to your wife, too.
Little do they realize that my wife is the one that trained
these men in the store on everything they know and if they don't
have an answer they still go to her to get one!
I am glad she trains all personell. Unfortunately (and strangely enough) this is not the case with the bigger branches of photography shops. Most of them are only interested to sell. Most of the staff working at the store only knows how to swipe you credit card, or take your money, say thank you (sometimes) and count the change. Jessop's for example may have 5-7 people working in each store and it would be a miracle if just one of those was trained as needed so as to work in a photography shop. Go ask for a digital camera at any Jessop's. Ask which ones are the best. They will give you the one the is most expensive and with the most pixels!!!! Even amateurs know that this is not always true.
There ARE professionals among us and we
take pride in this.
Twice congratulations to those professionals!!!! Keep up the good work. Thank you for offering everything that the others (being so stupid) lack.
there must be a
smaller, well run specialty camera store somewhere you can go to.
Usually, if you can find where the local Pro's purchase their
equipment you will find more qualified salespeople.
Of course there are. And I am glad I found one. It is a very small shop in London. there are about 4 people working in there. Anyone I ask knows the answer. The service is excellent. The prices, too!

One last time, CONGRATULATIONS to all those who know what they are doing. CONGRATULATIONS to those who try to make our "shopping life" easier. The rest will just get what they deserve.
 
Excuse me, but I am a writer and vague semantics give me a headache.

I go read through/post to these forums alot, and get very useful information. In some cases it has proved invaluable. If there is baiting going on, I don't see it, either that or the bait topics are uninteresting so I don't notice them. The D7 is a great camera, but it has quirks that have to be overcome. I didn't have the same troubles with the Nikon 950 I've overcome with the D7, but neither did I have the power the D7 provides (I'd not even consider buying a Nikon 5000 after having used the D7). Having looked at your RULES.ASP, I suggest being more specific about what you mean by trolling. Are discussions about quirks, detailing firmware bugs, or battery compensation trolling? I've learned a lot using the camera, and have posted to pass on my workarounds on these topics. How about some concrete examples? I'd hate to be considered a troll...I write F&SF. ;-)

Regardless, thanks for providing and maintaining such an important resource as this forum.

Regards,
RS Blum

An open letter to Minolta. Also DiMage 7 links, pictures, and tips at http://www.luiswatkins.com/homepages/dimage7/
Hey guys,

It's clear that standards have dropped here, it's clear that a
minority of posters have turned to troll activity and are
deliberately baiting other 'happier' owners.

My advice to regular posters:

Ignore the trolls, if you see a message you consider to be flame
bait just ignore it, these baiters just wait for your response so
they can stir things up even further.

Trolls:

I have compiled a list of userid's and I'll be monitoring the
forum, I'll be quite happy to ban those users who break our rules:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/rules.asp

A bad photographer blames his camera first.
 
RS Blum wrote:
Excuse me, but I am a writer and vague semantics give me a headache.

How about some concrete examples? I'd hate to be
considered a troll...I write F&SF. ;-)
A troll HELPS the fish out of the water.:-)
Hans
 
As has been said about the definition of art, 'I can't tell you, but I know it when I see it'. The same can be said for trolling. It is loosely defined as the posting of 'questions', 'information', and 'observations', in a deliberately inflammatory tone, not as a genuine effort to inform or ask for assistance, but to satisfy ones own ego by putting other people down, without provocation, and to call attention to oneself. Since the concept seems vague, I will attempt to illuminate the issue with this introductory phrasebook, translating some common forum phrases that might be made by an actual person, into those that might be made by a Troll:

1)RP (real person): "I found the XX (insert camera name) felt somewhat less robust in my hand than camera YY. Although it's just my impression, and not backed up by any real data, I wonder if this might translate into problems down the road with more damage from rough use or accidental droppage of camera XX."
TrollSpeak: "Camera XX is just a TOY!"

2)RP: "Camera XX has generally been found to get 100-150 shots/battery charge, and camera YY has been getting over 225 shots. I think that I would find it irritating to have to change my batteries, even once, in a full day's shooting."
TS: "You'll go broke buying batteries for XX!"

3)RP: "I don't know if any professional photographers are using camera XX on the job, but it's ability to function as a do-it-all camera for a photojournalist or sports photographer may be hampered by it's lack of waterproofness, and possible fragility of the lens, as well as slowness of autofocus at full zoom. I suspect that it would work fine for professional use for fine art shots, product shots, and possibly portraits and weddings."
TS: "XX isn't a real 'pro camera', it's JUST a 'Pro-Sumer' !"

4) RP: "After reading the reviews, and giving it a thorough test, I found that camera XX just wasn't what I was looking for. I chose a YY instead, because, for me, YY's features A, B, and C were more important than XX's superior X, Y and Z. Thanks for your input, and happy shooting."

TS: "XX sucks, YY blows it out of the water! People that use XX are blind, and just trying to justify their purchases. Try to criticize their camera, and they'll say anything to defend it."

You see? It's all in the delivery! Hope this clears up some of the mystery. Feel free to expand the TrollSpeak Phrasebook with other handy translations.

Happy shooting to all, as Rodney King said "Can't we all live together?" (sorry for the obscure reference to non-U.S. readers)
-David
--------------------------
I go read through/post to these forums alot, and get very useful
information. In some cases it has proved invaluable. If there is
baiting going on, I don't see it, either that or the bait topics
are uninteresting so I don't notice them. The D7 is a great
camera, but it has quirks that have to be overcome. I didn't have
the same troubles with the Nikon 950 I've overcome with the D7, but
neither did I have the power the D7 provides (I'd not even consider
buying a Nikon 5000 after having used the D7). Having looked at
your RULES.ASP, I suggest being more specific about what you mean
by trolling. Are discussions about quirks, detailing firmware
bugs, or battery compensation trolling? I've learned a lot using
the camera, and have posted to pass on my workarounds on these
topics. How about some concrete examples? I'd hate to be
considered a troll...I write F&SF. ;-)

Regardless, thanks for providing and maintaining such an important
resource as this forum.

Regards,
RS Blum

An open letter to Minolta. Also DiMage 7 links, pictures, and tips
at http://www.luiswatkins.com/homepages/dimage7/
Hey guys,

It's clear that standards have dropped here, it's clear that a
minority of posters have turned to troll activity and are
deliberately baiting other 'happier' owners.

My advice to regular posters:

Ignore the trolls, if you see a message you consider to be flame
bait just ignore it, these baiters just wait for your response so
they can stir things up even further.

Trolls:

I have compiled a list of userid's and I'll be monitoring the
forum, I'll be quite happy to ban those users who break our rules:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/rules.asp

A bad photographer blames his camera first.
 

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