How to uncompress 505?

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

They do not get uncompressed. The compression is just a way of reducing file size once the image is taken making it possible for more images to be stored on the available storage. You seem to be thinking of compression as being like what WinZip or other similar programs does to data when it is stored as a temporary Zip format. Have you ever opened a picture in one graphics format such as a .bmp file within Windows and wanted to save it in a .jpg format so as to not use as much space on your hard disk? The .jpg format is sometimes called a lossy format because when you save an image this way as the 505 does, you lose data or information the picture was originally made up of. Once you have done that the data is not recoverable. The 505 uses a special algorithym to reduce the size of the image this way more efficiently than some other digital cam manufacturers. Some people think it is too aggressive. I do not know if I answered your question or not. Thats about the best I can do.

Ken Gold said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

Greg Biggs said:

They do not get uncompressed. The compression is just a way of reducing
file size once the image is taken making it possible for more images to
be stored on the available storage. You seem to be thinking of
compression as being like what WinZip or other similar programs does to
data when it is stored as a temporary Zip format. Have you ever opened a
picture in one graphics format such as a .bmp file within Windows and
wanted to save it in a .jpg format so as to not use as much space on your
hard disk? The .jpg format is sometimes called a lossy format because
when you save an image this way as the 505 does, you lose data or
information the picture was originally made up of. Once you have done
that the data is not recoverable. The 505 uses a special algorithym to
reduce the size of the image this way more efficiently than some other
digital cam manufacturers. Some people think it is too aggressive. I do
not know if I answered your question or not. Thats about the best I can
do.
Ken Gold wrote:

Click to expand...

Greg:

Thanks a lot. Your information is a big help.

Ken

Greg Biggs said:

Greg Biggs said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Actually: They are compressed by the camera. The decompression takes place in the program that you edit or display or print the image in, e.g. Photoshop, Picture It etc. If you save the image (after editing it, for instance) from one of these programs and you choose to save it as a jpeg, the image will be compressed again with a additional loss of quality. You can usually select the degree of quality, less loss and a bigger file or more loss and smaller file size. If you save the image as tiff, there is some compression but no loss of quality. Jpeg compression allows substantial reduction in file sizes with minimal loss in image quality.....Paul Pavlik

Ken Gold said:

Greg Biggs said:

They do not get uncompressed. The compression is just a way of reducing
file size once the image is taken making it possible for more images to
be stored on the available storage. You seem to be thinking of
compression as being like what WinZip or other similar programs does to
data when it is stored as a temporary Zip format. Have you ever opened a
picture in one graphics format such as a .bmp file within Windows and
wanted to save it in a .jpg format so as to not use as much space on your
hard disk? The .jpg format is sometimes called a lossy format because
when you save an image this way as the 505 does, you lose data or
information the picture was originally made up of. Once you have done
that the data is not recoverable. The 505 uses a special algorithym to
reduce the size of the image this way more efficiently than some other
digital cam manufacturers. Some people think it is too aggressive. I do
not know if I answered your question or not. Thats about the best I can
do.
Ken Gold wrote:

Click to expand...

Greg:

Thanks a lot. Your information is a big help.

Ken

Ken Gold said:

Ken Gold said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

JPEG is not only a file compression routine but it is also a file UNcompression routine. If you look at the properties of an image opened in Photoshop or some other editing program you will see that the image in memory has been "uncompressed" by the JPEG algorithm in the software to about 5.5Mb. If you saved that file as an Uncompressed TIFF, you would have a 5.5Mb file. Any minor loss that occurs during the initial compression in the camera is not noticible in the saved TIFF.

Ken Gold said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

I love my 505 but I must take issue with the statement "Any minor loss that occurs during the initial compression in the camera is not noticible in the saved TIFF." Not true. The compession algorith is quite heavy on the 505. In large similar coloured areas (especially skies) JPEG artifacting is quite noticeable (a fine dark grain). Compare, say, the Canon S10 which produces smooth colour gradations with their higher quality less compressed JPEGs. That being said, I would not trade my 505. The overall picture quality (lens sharpness, colour) still reigns supreme. Same camera with less compression would just be that much better.

Robert Maclellan said:

Ken Gold said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Well now I would like to clarify what I see as the compression process. If I use my 505 with compression set to 25 percent, when I upload that image to the computer it is amera.an image that has been compressed 25 percent and whatever data loss that occurred in the camera when it was compressed can not be recovered by any software program. You can save it as any file type you want to in the image editor after you open it including a JPG or a TIF or a BMP and regardless of which of them you choose you still will not recover the data or information lost when it was originally saved at 25 percent compression in the camera. That is what I mean when I say the image is not going to be uncompressed when it is opened.

The 505 does not take the uncompressed TIF image file type. Although the 505 uses aggressive compression compared to some others it sure can produce some great pictures.
G Biggs

PWC said:

Robert Maclellan said:

Ken Gold said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Strange, I have never seen a JPEG artifact from an image out of the camera. Could you be seeing CCD noise instead? You will generally see it in skys. Other cameras have special routines to effect the blue channel to reduce that but it tends to add a blue wash over their shots which makes the color less true. I'm not sure if that isn't a greater problem than noise (which is general only visible on monitors and not in prints.)

Where you will see Jpeg artifacts is along straight edges especially with high contrast. The Jpeg compression method doesn't claim to do well with straight edges which is why it isn't the format of choice for text..for example.

A Jpeg artifact will appear as a large block with defined edges. It is quite possible to compress a file to 10% of its original size and still maintain quality.

PWC said:

I love my 505 but I must take issue with the statement "Any minor loss
that occurs during the initial compression in the camera is not noticible
in the saved TIFF." Not true. The compession algorith is quite heavy on
the 505. In large similar coloured areas (especially skies) JPEG
artifacting is quite noticeable (a fine dark grain). Compare, say, the
Canon S10 which produces smooth colour gradations with their higher
quality less compressed JPEGs. That being said, I would not trade my
505. The overall picture quality (lens sharpness, colour) still reigns
supreme. Same camera with less compression would just be that much
better.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is true. When the file is originally compressed in the camera there are some pixels that are permanently lost in the process. What many of the anti-Jpeg people seem to misunderstand is that much of the file can be reconstructed by the software. The losses come from mathematical rounding during the compression process. It is like the "breakage" that the banks use when the calculate intrest on your account. Generally there are fractions of a cent that are rounded down when you get the money. The bank transfers the tenths, hundredths and thousandths of a cent into their own account and, after a while and across millions of accounts, it adds up to real money. You don't notice it in your account.If the bank did that calculation to your account over and over again you would soon see the cumulative effect...same with Jpeg.

Jpeg is the same way. Fractions are stripped away and you are left with the rounded figure but you don't notice it.

When the Jpeg is expanded by the editing software from 900Kb to 5.5Mb where does that information come from? Interpolation? No. The Jpeg routines in the software are able to work backwards and reconstruct the original file...minus the fractions of a pixel that were lost by rounding.

If X * 15 = 50, what is X? It is a simple calculation but you will see that it is a fraction that never ends and has to be rounded. The stuff we cut out is technically an innaccuracy but...does it really matter if it is 4 decimal places or 16 decimal places?

G Biggs said:

PWC said:

Robert Maclellan said:

Ken Gold said:

I'm thinking of buying a new F505, but am confused by how the pictures
are decompressed when you send the compressed JPEG file into your
computer via USB.

How do they get uncompressed once on the computer hard drive. I want to
use pictures in MS Word, Pagemaker, Print Shop, etc. Are they
automatically compressed when you import them into a program. Or does
Sony provide a program to uncompress them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...