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CES Fuji F11 announcement...

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Re: Why the F10? F11?
Mind Expansi0n - 3 days ago
Khiem Nguyen said:
I heard the F11 has a wider LCD screen, and supposedly is an
improvement to the F10, and fixed some of the F10's flaws. I heard
the firmware for the F11 is supposed to be better to. The F11 has
red eye reduction, I don't know if that help, but I heard the F10
had a problem with that.
Click to expand...
None of those things are correct. The LCD screen is the same size with better RESOLUTION, the firmware is very similar minus the Ap and Shutter priority controls, and the F10 has absolutely no issue with red eye.

The F11 has better light metering, a higher resolution LCD, and some real manual controls (A and S priority). The F10 is a great camera, and the F11 adds to this design with improvements for more advanced users who know how they want to shoot and want flexibility in their shooting.

If you don't know what manual controls are, or why you would use them... I would get an F10. Hope this helps.

LOL, this is your own post man!
 
From my perspective ... the F11 provides the ability to satisfy more peoples' preferred work flow.

Pooch, for example, likes to shoot with more manual control. I presume that he chooses either shutter speed or aperture and probably ISO and then lets the camera finish the exposure calculation. That's a lot of control and can really make a difference. Add EV and you are really controlling everything (same effect as full manual if you know how to use it.)

My work flow, on the other hand, is different depending on where I am. Outside, I set EV if necessary and let the camera run full auto afterwards, including ISO. But I bracket by metering on different parts of the image and composing after I have exposure and focus lock.

Inside, I use natural light mode most of the time. Sometimes I switch to auto mode with flash (yuck.) And on rare occasions, I switch to manual mode and set only ISO to 1600 (when I want the fastest possible shutter speeds indoors.)

The key, though, is that everyone out there is going to like doing things in a way that feels right to them. And the F11 offers almost every alternative possible except setting everything. But, as I said above, adding EV changes gives you exactly the same effect as full manual ... it just takes a lot longer and is less direct. (I.e. after you've set everything you can, the last variable is forced to a specific value.) I'd even bet that someone out there is using that work flow.
 
Mind Expansi0n said:
F10 price from Pricegrabber = 269.00... best price with shipping.
Click to expand...
Yes, well price grabber also finds the F11 for $298 shipped, but like your $269 F10 vendors, they are all Brooklyn rip-off stores
Mind Expansi0n said:
Local retailer w/ mail in rebate on F10 = 245.00
Click to expand...
Thats a great deal - but adding local tax for me would make it $265. Best price I found on an F10 at the time I ordered the F11 was about $290 shipped from a legit dealer. But if it doesn't quite have the features I need, I'll will still end up disappointed that I didn't spend the extra $100.
Mind Expansi0n said:
376-245 = $131/2 = Approx. $65 per Ap and Shutter mode... I'm not convinced the metering allows better > pictures, but I'm open to being corrected.
Click to expand...
For me, its the ability to not only take low noise available light shots but also take a longer exposure night shot and set a lower iso and higher f stop. I don't believe this is possible using the scene modes of F10.

My main camera is a 20D and I wanted something to take everywhere, with great low light performance and some degree of manual control. The extra $100 or so for these features is insignificant compared to the differences I have spent on better versions of lenses etc for my Canon.
 
Mind Expansi0n said:
F11 from Time2Envy = 376.00 shipped... unless your picking it up
yourself.

F10 price from Pricegrabber = 269.00... best price with shipping.

Local retailer w/ mail in rebate on F10 = 245.00

376-245 = $131/2 = Approx. $65 per Ap and Shutter mode... I'm not
convinced the metering allows better pictures, but I'm open to
being corrected.

I don't spend $350 for a grey market cam... not until someone tests
one of these warranties they have, be they a 3rd party or a local
repair center.

I'm thinking the F10/F11 is on its way out, but we shall see.
Click to expand...
Well, if one is on a tight budget, then one would be smart to take the lower risk. Especially since the F10 is producing some astounding photos.

But there are more little improvements than you have listed (e.g. longer shutter speeds in certain modes) and I personally like the new metering a lot. I do not get a lot of blown highlights and I rarely use EV. YMMV.
 
Updated pricing - on ebay.com you can get the F11 today for about $350 shipped.

In Japan, the F11 are everywhere at all major stores last week on sale for

---

That said, even the F11 isn't 'good' enough for me to switch from my P200. I had come from the Fuji side after going through the 40i, 401, etc. models, but wanted something with lots of megapixels and fast AF response for my latest pick. The F10 was nice, but even at the store, it was slower in high-speed AF than the P150 I just upgraded from (same as P200 except a few minor cosmetic and menu changes), and the F11 still has no fixed focus mode =( That means I'd miss many of the shots of people and kids indoors and at parties vs. the P150/P200 I have now which do have fixed focus (ie. instant shutter response).

And I don't know about the 500 shot battery life on the F10/F11, but I've easily taken 800+ shots over 4+ hours this past month at a friends B-Day on the P200 by simply turning the camera off right after I use it. That's 1GB+ of photos, so don't know if the tooted 500 shot life of the F10/F11 vs. the 300ish shot life of the P200 is really going to make any difference at all to most users.

That said, it's a decent camera, and maybe you can use the ISO 1600 mode to good effect, but otherwise, I think there are better buys at this price range (like a Sony P200 for
 
David, I dont blame you for not updating, your still have a lot of use in your newer cam. But.......if you didnt have it, I bet you would really be thinking about the F11 today. Am I right? The F11 has a wider angle, two F stops faster with the ISO going to 1600 insted of 400, a 2.5" LCD instead of 2". Probably no difference until the sun goes down or you walk inside a building, but then I think then the F11 will have a nice edge. Post some of those sony pics, I would like to see what it can do! I love sony, one thing I like is that have made thier proprietary memeory stick work accross thier line, my second TV, a sony, is much older then my 17 year old daugter and still looks perfect. I listen to am talk radio on a portable Sony that pulls the station in better then a 50 dollar special purpose am receiver, and it was 15 bucks.......I dont think sony is what it used to be though, they got some competiion.
--
http://www.pbase.com/poochdp/inbox&page=1

 
David Chien said:
And I don't know about the 500 shot battery life on the F10/F11,
but I've easily taken 800+ shots over 4+ hours this past month at a
friends B-Day on the P200 by simply turning the camera off right
after I use it.
Click to expand...
Yours is bigger than ours. We got it.
David Chien said:
That's 1GB+ of photos, so don't know if the tooted
500 shot life of the F10/F11 vs. the 300ish shot life of the P200
is really going to make any difference at all to most users.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure the battery life for the F10 has been 'tooted' as much as touted. But then, if the p200 gets a quadrillion shots per charge just by leaving it off all the time, well, then it should be 'tooted' as well.
David Chien said:
That said, it's a decent camera, and maybe you can use the ISO 1600
mode to good effect, but otherwise, I think there are better buys
at this price range (like a Sony P200 for
fatwallet.com/c/18/ thread on this camera) for people looking for
more manual control features in their P&S camera (oxymoron for
sure!).
Click to expand...
Done the research ... came to the opposite conclusion because I don't like the p200's tendency to blur shots in anything but the brightest light (read the user opinions on other forums ... there is a surprising amount of info available.)

But hey ... each to his own. At least it can blur those shots with no focus delay at all ...
 
Poochdp said:
Khiem Nguyen said:
I heard the F11 has a wider LCD screen, and supposedly is an
improvement to the F10, and fixed some of the F10's flaws. I heard
the firmware for the F11 is supposed to be better to. The F11 has
red eye reduction, I don't know if that help, but I heard the F10
had a problem with that.
Click to expand...
None of those things are correct. The LCD screen is the same size
with better RESOLUTION, the firmware is very similar minus the Ap
and Shutter priority controls, and the F10 has absolutely no issue
with red eye.
Click to expand...
Poochdp:

I am debating between the F10 and F11 at this point. Can you kindly clarify your comment regarding redeye? By saying "the F10 has absolutely no issue with red eye" you don't mean the F11 is any different, do you? Perhaps Kim can comment since he has both cams in his household. :)
 
I have never claimed the F10 or the F11 is free from red eye, you have confused yourself by quoting a guote. (I dont have an F10 I have never spoken as if I have had one)

My F11 has red eye, not in all shots, the few times times I used the flash before we started talking about it, I got red eye on my f11, but since then, I have been experimenting and its more like 50/50 right now. Interestingly enough if I hold he camera right in front of my face and shoot myself with very little other light in the room, my eyes come out brown as can be and I would have thought that would have been the torture test. I seem to get it more when I have a mix if light temperatures, but I dont have enough time in on the flash, I dont like using the flash, I am trying to use to fill sometimes so I am practicing. If your weighting the flash higher then the F10/11's ambient light abilities, I would not get one, get a Canon or some other stong flasher. To me this flash is like the led on your key ring, helpful but its not going to light up the path on a dark night! Good Luck! (that doesnt mean its not as good as other compacts) Im used to a big thirster that could work in a small auditorium.
--
http://www.pbase.com/poochdp
http://www.pbase.com/poochdp/image/54368437
 
To my knowledge, the two cams have the same red eye reduction flash timing, and we know that the bodies are identical, so we can pretty much assert that they will have the same red eye amounts given the same exposures.

And there is the rub ... it is not clear to me that the two cameras will choose the same exposure under all circumstances. For that, I will need to run an experiment at some point. Perhaps I will have time to do that at some point.
 
Interesting...I was under the impression that the F10/F11 flash was supposed to be rather powerful for its size.
You can always get rid of it in post-processing, no?
 
theranman said:
Interesting...I was under the impression that the F10/F11 flash was
supposed to be rather powerful for its size.
You can always get rid of it in post-processing, no?
Click to expand...
It is ... it can cover quite a space even set down at 200 ISO. And yes, you can get rid of red eye in pp ... but it is a hassle that snap shooters will not like.
 
The F11 comes with a software CD that when you start installing it starts by asking what your country is. The default option is "United States". Funny for a camera they do not want to sell in the US...

Forget about waiting for a brick and mortar store having it. Get it from anywhere you can. This camera is terrific! (And as my main camera is a Canon DRebel I am not easily satisfied, especially in the noise department.)
theranman said:
Ok, since Fuji hasn't said jack about importing the F11 to the US
(aside from Hawaii), I'm figuring that they'll probably announce
such at upcoming CES.
If not, I think there'll be a LOT of disappointed potential buyers.
Why shaft the Americans when there's so much interest in the camera?
Then again, could it be possible that since the F11 was just a
minor improvement on the F10, that Fuji might announce the NEW FUJI
FINEPIX F12?!!

I really would like to purchase an F11, but I ain't gonna do it
thru the net. Me wants US brick and mortar.

-exasperated
Click to expand...
--
Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 20.000 shots)
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
 
The more I read about PMA, the more I suspect that THAT'S the place where any F11/F12 announcement will take place. It seems that few of the dc manufacturers tout their higher end stuff at CES...they do it at PMA. Then again, is the $350-400 range considered "higher end"? I guess that some of us will have to wait and see....
 
I went ahead got a time2envy F11. Yes, it was 388.00 total and then I coughed up $100.00 for a 1GB xD card. But, my camera rocks, I love using it, and I've already shot a thousand pix (mostly test pix) with it during the last week and a half. On Monday I'm going to Argentina with it for vacation and I'm really excited about using the camera on holiday.

I'm just trying to figure out if I should leave my S400 Elph at home. It's been so trusty and it takes great pix though it's specs are nowhere near the those of the F11. I have some sort of attachment to my Elph that goes beyond what is normal. I'm also a little worried that my lack of experience with the F11 could burn me if I screw up a snapshot that the Elph would have nailed - partially because I've shot thousands of pix with the Elph and I'm very familiar with its operation.

I've also got a Canon Optura 40 minDV cam and a Panasonic FZ5 to carry and I don't know if I want a 4th camera, the Elph, with me, even though the Elph fits anywhere. At a certain point, I'm a camera geek and not a vacationer, and I'm trying to remain a vacationer...

I could just take the F11 and force myself to use it correctly. I know that the first available light pic I get in some super hip cafe or nite scene will convince me that the F11 was the best camera for the job. I'm also a little concerned about purple fringing on landscapes. So maybe I'll pack the Elph as a back up...
 
Well- it is about choices and niches...

I love Sony cameras. But not to the exclusion of others. My Oly's have a whole different tonality to them that is wonderful.

I bought the P200 for $260 on a Dell deal. I just could not be comfortable with it. I found it hard to hold steady, hard to see, and slow to shoot.

I returned it. I had tried it at a SonyStlye and thought it had great image quality--I just had difficutlties ergonomically with it.

I did not care for the F10 I first had. But- got used to it and now love my F11 for the ability to hardly use flash.

As for seeing photos-I test any camera I buy and have quite a few of them on my Just Testing gallery http://www.quirky.smugmug.com

I am an enthusiast and no genius at processing.

For the question of is the F11 worth the extra money--only if those features will matter. The macro distance is a shade closer-but to me, the metering and lcd are the improvements of value--with the 'option' of A & S modes--but those were actually secondary to me.

Don't mean this in a pompous way- but if I am going to be in a well lit situation and want more zoom, I would likely take the C7000 or H1.

And, my V1 can hold its own against some of even the most recent releases--but not without flash or night mode to the F11.

Just sooooo many choices...:-)

Linda
 
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