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70-200IS vs 100-400IS at 280mm

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Fred Miranda

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Hi everyone:

I was very curious to find out how the new 70-200IS would perform at 280mm (with the 1.4x II extender) comparing to the 100-400IS at the same focal lenght.

I mounted both lenses on a tripod and used the same focal length (280mm) at f/5.6.

Image stabilization was OFF for both lenses (even though the 70-200IS detects when the camera is on a tripod and shuts down IS automatically).
I shot some charts and "real" subjects. The results were the following:

70-200IS + 1.4xII at 280mm f/5.6:

The results were good but the image lacks the contrast and sharpness when comparing to the 100-400IS at 280mm f/5.6. It's noticeable at 100% and very noticeable at 200%. Again I tested this several times and the results were consistent.
The 100-400IS has the edge in contrast and sharpness (as expected)

100-400IS at 280 f/5.6:
Sharper and more “contrasty” images than the combo. Is it noticeable? YES

Is it that much better? NO. I'd say you would see the difference if you print large images or inspect your images really closely.

By the way, I also tested the 70-200+1.4x at 280mm at f/4, and the image is much softer than at f/5.6. There is a huge difference between the 70-200+1.4x at f/4 and 100-400 at f/5.6 at 280mm. (very noticeable).

I didn't test it with the 2x extender and don’t even want to. I'm sure image quality would be much inferior to the 100-400IS at similar focal lengths and apertures. So I would forget about choosing the 70-200IS + 2x extender instead of the 100-400IS.

Why did I test it?

Because I wanted to ditch my 100-400IS and only carry the 70-200IS + 1.4x extender. After this test I definitely decided to keep both lenses.

Another motive for keeping both is that I do shot at 400mm very often (or 640mm on the D30), and would not compromise image quality that much by attaching the 2x extender.

I hope this can help some of you with similar questions.
--Best,
FRED
http://www.fredmiranda.com
 
FRED said:
Image stabilization was OFF for both lenses (even though the
70-200IS detects when the camera is on a tripod and shuts down IS
automatically).
Click to expand...
Is this correct? I thought that the third generation IS used on the big fast tele's and the fourth generation used on this lens allowed the use of IS on a tripod, thus obviating the need for mirror lockup as well as protecting against motion from wind, rather than automatically shutting IS off. If you are correct, then one of the big reasons for me to think about buying this lens just disappeared.

Doug
 
Doug,

Only some of the long lenses with IS technology shut down the IS automatically when a tripod is detected. It is a feature not a drawback.

The 100-400IS does not have that "feature" therefore if you don't turn off IS when the lens is on a tripod your image will be blurred. It happened with me several times when shooting landscape.

The new 70-200IS works just like its big sisters. It detects and turns if off for you.

A monopod can be used with IS though just like the 100-400IS.

Again there is nothing to be disappointed here.

Fred
Doug Caesar said:
FRED said:
Image stabilization was OFF for both lenses (even though the
70-200IS detects when the camera is on a tripod and shuts down IS
automatically).
Click to expand...
Is this correct? I thought that the third generation IS used on
the big fast tele's and the fourth generation used on this lens
allowed the use of IS on a tripod, thus obviating the need for
mirror lockup as well as protecting against motion from wind,
rather than automatically shutting IS off. If you are correct,
then one of the big reasons for me to think about buying this lens
just disappeared.

Doug
Click to expand...
 
I really don't see the benefit. If one takes the time to mount the lens on a triipod, one would certainly have the time to turn the IS switch to "off". In any event, it certainly wouldn't accomplish what I would want this lens for, which is the ability to actually use IS on a tripod, not turn it off.

Here's what I know:

1. The first generation IS (used in the 75-300 f/4-5.6 and 28-135 f/3.5-5.6) does not allow panning as the IS group will "jump" - as you pan the IS attempts to hold the image still. It also is not supposed to be used mounted on a tripod as the IS lens group is unlocked and floating, creating instability, and there is a type of "feedback" created by the non-motion that also caused the unlocked lens group to occasionally "jump".

2. The second generation (used in the 300 f/4 and 100-400 f/4.5-5.6) added a mode II switch which allowed IS on the horizontal axis to be turned off while leaving it turned on on the vertical axis, thus allowing the use of at least some IS with panning. However, the first generation problems regarding tripod usage still exist in the second generation.

3. The third generation (used in the 300 f/2.8, 400 f/2.8, 500 f/4 and 600 f/4) added circuitry to overcome the "feedback loop" problem and allow the use of IS with the lens mounted on a tripod. When so used, IS compensates for lens motion from breezes (a real problem in the field with large lenses on tripods and slow shutter speeds), for the vibration arising from the mirror swinging up (again, eliminating the need for mirror lockup with slow shutter speeds) and even compensates for the slight vibration caused by the action of the shutter itself. Third generation IS does not automatically turn off when the lens is mounted on a tripod - that would defeat the whole purpose of the additional circuitry used to eliminate the non-motion feedback.

What I don't know is 4th generation IS used on the new 70-200 f/2.8 IS (and, I presume although I don't know, the yet released 400 f/4 DO). As Canon stated in its announcement of this lens that IS could be used with the lens mounted on a tripod, I had started to consider this lens specifically to gain the advantages I noted above for the third generation IS. I do a lot of work in the field using the camera/lens mounted on a tripod and slow shutter speeds. Being able to use IS to compensate for motion from breezes and to get rid of the whole mirror lockup cycle would be a great advantage to me.

But you have this lens and are telling us it turns IS off if it senses non-motion (the only way the lens could "know" it was mounted on a tripod). While that might be of benefit to someone, it would be of no use to me. In such a case, the 70-200 f/4 L would serve me just as well with a lot less weight, not to mention costing about 1/3 what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS currently goes for.
FRED said:
The new 70-200IS works just like its big sisters. It detects and
turns if off for you.

A monopod can be used with IS though just like the 100-400IS.

Again there is nothing to be disappointed here.

Fred
Doug Caesar said:
FRED said:
Image stabilization was OFF for both lenses (even though the
70-200IS detects when the camera is on a tripod and shuts down IS
automatically).
Click to expand...
Is this correct? I thought that the third generation IS used on
the big fast tele's and the fourth generation used on this lens
allowed the use of IS on a tripod, thus obviating the need for
mirror lockup as well as protecting against motion from wind,
rather than automatically shutting IS off. If you are correct,
then one of the big reasons for me to think about buying this lens
just disappeared.

Doug
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Doug, here is what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS and 300 f/2.8 IS states on their manual about Image stabilization:

"Set the stabilizer switch to OFF when you are taking pictures with a tripod.

Even if the stabilizer switch is set to ON, the IS function does not operate because the electronic circuits in the lens automatically detect that a tripod is being used. However, because of electrical power is still being supplied to the image stabilizer unit, battery life is roughly 20% shorter than it would be with the switch set to OFF."

As far as I know, no lenses use image stabilization when it's mounted on a tripod. The differences are that some lenses continue using IS when mounted on a tripod blurring the shot when shutter speeds are low. (ex: 28-135IS, 300 f/4IS and 100-400IS)

Best,
FRED
Doug Caesar said:
Here's what I know:

1. The first generation IS (used in the 75-300 f/4-5.6 and 28-135
f/3.5-5.6) does not allow panning as the IS group will "jump" - as
you pan the IS attempts to hold the image still. It also is not
supposed to be used mounted on a tripod as the IS lens group is
unlocked and floating, creating instability, and there is a type of
"feedback" created by the non-motion that also caused the unlocked
lens group to occasionally "jump".

2. The second generation (used in the 300 f/4 and 100-400
f/4.5-5.6) added a mode II switch which allowed IS on the
horizontal axis to be turned off while leaving it turned on on the
vertical axis, thus allowing the use of at least some IS with
panning. However, the first generation problems regarding tripod
usage still exist in the second generation.

3. The third generation (used in the 300 f/2.8, 400 f/2.8, 500 f/4
and 600 f/4) added circuitry to overcome the "feedback loop"
problem and allow the use of IS with the lens mounted on a tripod.
When so used, IS compensates for lens motion from breezes (a real
problem in the field with large lenses on tripods and slow shutter
speeds), for the vibration arising from the mirror swinging up
(again, eliminating the need for mirror lockup with slow shutter
speeds) and even compensates for the slight vibration caused by the
action of the shutter itself. Third generation IS does not
automatically turn off when the lens is mounted on a tripod - that
would defeat the whole purpose of the additional circuitry used to
eliminate the non-motion feedback.

What I don't know is 4th generation IS used on the new 70-200 f/2.8
IS (and, I presume although I don't know, the yet released 400 f/4
DO). As Canon stated in its announcement of this lens that IS
could be used with the lens mounted on a tripod, I had started to
consider this lens specifically to gain the advantages I noted
above for the third generation IS. I do a lot of work in the field
using the camera/lens mounted on a tripod and slow shutter speeds.
Being able to use IS to compensate for motion from breezes and to
get rid of the whole mirror lockup cycle would be a great advantage
to me.

But you have this lens and are telling us it turns IS off if it
senses non-motion (the only way the lens could "know" it was
mounted on a tripod). While that might be of benefit to someone,
it would be of no use to me. In such a case, the 70-200 f/4 L
would serve me just as well with a lot less weight, not to mention
costing about 1/3 what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS currently goes for.
FRED said:
The new 70-200IS works just like its big sisters. It detects and
turns if off for you.

A monopod can be used with IS though just like the 100-400IS.

Again there is nothing to be disappointed here.

Fred
Doug Caesar said:
FRED said:
Image stabilization was OFF for both lenses (even though the
70-200IS detects when the camera is on a tripod and shuts down IS
automatically).
Click to expand...
Is this correct? I thought that the third generation IS used on
the big fast tele's and the fourth generation used on this lens
allowed the use of IS on a tripod, thus obviating the need for
mirror lockup as well as protecting against motion from wind,
rather than automatically shutting IS off. If you are correct,
then one of the big reasons for me to think about buying this lens
just disappeared.

Doug
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
FRED said:
Doug, here is what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS and 300 f/2.8 IS states on
their manual about Image stabilization:

"Set the stabilizer switch to OFF when you are taking pictures with
a tripod.
Even if the stabilizer switch is set to ON, the IS function does
not operate because the electronic circuits in the lens
automatically detect that a tripod is being used. However, because
of electrical power is still being supplied to the image stabilizer
unit, battery life is roughly 20% shorter than it would be with the
switch set to OFF."
Click to expand...
Ummmm - although I don't seem to be able to come up with the document at the moment, Chuck Westfal has written that that is a misprint in the 300 f/2.8 manual. Although its hard to believe that Canon would make the mistake again, they may have. The following statement is from Edward Agnew's review of the 70-200 f/2.8 IS at http://www.edwardagnew.com/photogear/phototech_return_frameset.html?=70_200IS.html .

"The owner's manual indicates the lens automatically turns off the IS when the lens is mounted on a tripod, however, When I put it on a tripod, it acts much like my IS super telephotos, that is, the IS does work and does reduce movement."
Member said:
As far as I know, no lenses use image stabilization when it's
mounted on a tripod. The differences are that some lenses continue
using IS when mounted on a tripod blurring the shot when shutter
speeds are low. (ex: 28-135IS, 300 f/4IS and 100-400IS)
Click to expand...
None of the zooms do, except for the one we are trying to determine. Nor does the 300 f/4. But all of the super-tele IS primes, from the 300 f/2.8 on up do. See the statement above. Or, for example, see Phillip Greenspun's comments on use of IS on a tripod with the 600 f/4 here: http://www.photo.net/photo/canon/600-is .

Is the IS on the new zoom audible? If so, can you hear it running when mounted on a tripod?

Thanks.....

Doug
 
FRED said:
Doug, here is what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS and 300 f/2.8 IS states on
their manual about Image stabilization:

"Set the stabilizer switch to OFF when you are taking pictures with
a tripod.
Even if the stabilizer switch is set to ON, the IS function does
not operate because the electronic circuits in the lens
automatically detect that a tripod is being used. However, because
of electrical power is still being supplied to the image stabilizer
unit, battery life is roughly 20% shorter than it would be with the
switch set to OFF."
Click to expand...
Hmmmm.... unless there's a sensor in the tripod mount, then the lens can NOT detect that it's mounted on a tripod and therefore IS is NOT de-activated. In fact, Canon says that "power is still being supplied" to the IS motor, therefore by definition it's RUNNING. If it's running, then it's working.

My guess is that Canon doesn't perceive any great benefit to IS while mounted on a tripod and they're telling you to shut it off if you're using a tripod or else you'll drain your batteries for no good reason.

JCDoss
 
Thanks for the link and info.

I haven't tested the lens for IS performance when mounted on a tripod (I just turned it OFF), but I will try that tomorrow.

It's great to know that the IS mode turns back to "mode 1" if there is no panning motion detected by the lens.

Fred
Doug Caesar said:
FRED said:
Doug, here is what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS and 300 f/2.8 IS states on
their manual about Image stabilization:

"Set the stabilizer switch to OFF when you are taking pictures with
a tripod.
Even if the stabilizer switch is set to ON, the IS function does
not operate because the electronic circuits in the lens
automatically detect that a tripod is being used. However, because
of electrical power is still being supplied to the image stabilizer
unit, battery life is roughly 20% shorter than it would be with the
switch set to OFF."
Click to expand...
Ummmm - although I don't seem to be able to come up with the
document at the moment, Chuck Westfal has written that that is a
misprint in the 300 f/2.8 manual. Although its hard to believe
that Canon would make the mistake again, they may have. The
following statement is from Edward Agnew's review of the 70-200
f/2.8 IS at

http://www.edwardagnew.com/photogear/phototech_return_frameset.html?=70_200IS.html .

"The owner's manual indicates the lens automatically turns off the
IS when the lens is mounted on a tripod, however, When I put it on
a tripod, it acts much like my IS super telephotos, that is, the IS
does work and does reduce movement."
Doug Caesar said:
As far as I know, no lenses use image stabilization when it's
mounted on a tripod. The differences are that some lenses continue
using IS when mounted on a tripod blurring the shot when shutter
speeds are low. (ex: 28-135IS, 300 f/4IS and 100-400IS)
Click to expand...
None of the zooms do, except for the one we are trying to
determine. Nor does the 300 f/4. But all of the super-tele IS
primes, from the 300 f/2.8 on up do. See the statement above. Or,
for example, see Phillip Greenspun's comments on use of IS on a
tripod with the 600 f/4 here:
http://www.photo.net/photo/canon/600-is .

Is the IS on the new zoom audible? If so, can you hear it running
when mounted on a tripod?

Thanks.....

Doug
Click to expand...
 
You are correct in that there's a misprint in the manual. The 600 will
use IS very nicely on a tripod. Extremely effective, too.
Doug Caesar said:
FRED said:
Doug, here is what the 70-200 f/2.8 IS and 300 f/2.8 IS states on
their manual about Image stabilization:

"Set the stabilizer switch to OFF when you are taking pictures with
a tripod.
Even if the stabilizer switch is set to ON, the IS function does
not operate because the electronic circuits in the lens
automatically detect that a tripod is being used. However, because
of electrical power is still being supplied to the image stabilizer
unit, battery life is roughly 20% shorter than it would be with the
switch set to OFF."
Click to expand...
Ummmm - although I don't seem to be able to come up with the
document at the moment, Chuck Westfal has written that that is a
misprint in the 300 f/2.8 manual. Although its hard to believe
that Canon would make the mistake again, they may have. The
following statement is from Edward Agnew's review of the 70-200
f/2.8 IS at

http://www.edwardagnew.com/photogear/phototech_return_frameset.html?=70_200IS.html .

"The owner's manual indicates the lens automatically turns off the
IS when the lens is mounted on a tripod, however, When I put it on
a tripod, it acts much like my IS super telephotos, that is, the IS
does work and does reduce movement."
Doug Caesar said:
As far as I know, no lenses use image stabilization when it's
mounted on a tripod. The differences are that some lenses continue
using IS when mounted on a tripod blurring the shot when shutter
speeds are low. (ex: 28-135IS, 300 f/4IS and 100-400IS)
Click to expand...
None of the zooms do, except for the one we are trying to
determine. Nor does the 300 f/4. But all of the super-tele IS
primes, from the 300 f/2.8 on up do. See the statement above. Or,
for example, see Phillip Greenspun's comments on use of IS on a
tripod with the 600 f/4 here:
http://www.photo.net/photo/canon/600-is .

Is the IS on the new zoom audible? If so, can you hear it running
when mounted on a tripod?

Thanks.....

Doug
Click to expand...
 
FRED said:
Thanks for the link and info.
I haven't tested the lens for IS performance when mounted on a
tripod (I just turned it OFF), but I will try that tomorrow.
Click to expand...
OK - thanks! No rush - I won't be buying for 3 or 4 months anyway.
Member said:
It's great to know that the IS mode turns back to "mode 1" if there
is no panning motion detected by the lens.
Click to expand...
Yes, no worry about forgetting to switch it back. I suppose one could even just leave the switch on "mode 2" all the time.

Doug
 
JCDoss said:
My guess is that Canon doesn't perceive any great benefit to IS
while mounted on a tripod and they're telling you to shut it off if
you're using a tripod or else you'll drain your batteries for no
good reason.
Click to expand...
Dunno - they sure used it as a selling point when the third generation of IS first came out on the super tele's. In my experience, you are right though about IS draining batteries.

Doug
 
Hi Jan,

While I worked professionally many, many years ago, since then photography has been strictly for pleasure with me. While I would love to have the focal length, lugging that monster around in the field for hours is not my idea of pleasure.

I had high hopes for the 400 f/4 DO as on the D30 it would yield the same FOV as a 640mm on a film body and the 1.4x would be usable with autofocus. But it appears it will be out of my price range anyway.

In any event, the question is regarding the new 70-200 f/28L IS, which uses a newer generation IS than the 600 f/4, so I don't know that one can assume that what works/doesn't work with the 600 works/doesn't work with the newer generation.

Doug
Jan Brittenson said:
You are correct in that there's a misprint in the manual. The 600
will
use IS very nicely on a tripod. Extremely effective, too.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Fred for the great input and time you spent doing it.
I was waiting this specific test since the new 70-200 was out.

I was thinking purchasing the combo over the 100-400
for low light conditions.
Focale lenght with D30 @450 mm is far enough for me.
It seems this combo doesn't match the 100-400 wich is
twice cheaper.

The IS lenses made to broke the focal length/shutter speed.
What is the effective focal lenght with D30 ?
Real focal lenght (wich is my opinion) or real focal lenght x 1.6

A quality photomag in France "Chasseur d'images" says :
In future Canon must extend IS techno to Wide angle lenses.
This will allow lower shutter speeds on landscaping and portrait.
A great improvment IMHO.

Uti.
FRED said:
Hi everyone:
I was very curious to find out how the new 70-200IS would perform
at 280mm (with the 1.4x II extender) comparing to the 100-400IS at
the same focal lenght.
Click to expand...
 
Fred,

Thanks for taking the time to post your test results, and all the good work you've done and shared with us in the past. Would you mind posting a section of the images you used to evaluate the differences?

I know you're probably really busy, but I'm interested in actually seeing the 70-200IS + 2xTCII @ 400/5.6 versus the 100-400IS @ 400/5.6 -- If you have the time.

JoeyW
 
Same here. Sample pictures would be nice...
JoeyW said:
Fred,

Thanks for taking the time to post your test results, and all the
good work you've done and shared with us in the past. Would you
mind posting a section of the images you used to evaluate the
differences?

I know you're probably really busy, but I'm interested in actually
seeing the 70-200IS + 2xTCII @ 400/5.6 versus the 100-400IS @
400/5.6 -- If you have the time.

JoeyW
Click to expand...
 
Ok guys,
Here is one of the comparisons. The magazine cover was taped on the wall.
Settings:

Heavy tripod, shutter release cable, and apertures from f/4 to f/5.6 as noted, IS set to OFF and shutter speeds of 1/200s

100-400IS at 280mm f/5.6



70-200IS+1.4II extender at 280 f/5.6



70-200IS+1.4II extender at 280 f/4



Best,
FRED
http://www.fredmiranda.com
zapp! said:
JoeyW said:
Fred,

Thanks for taking the time to post your test results, and all the
good work you've done and shared with us in the past. Would you
mind posting a section of the images you used to evaluate the
differences?

I know you're probably really busy, but I'm interested in actually
seeing the 70-200IS + 2xTCII @ 400/5.6 versus the 100-400IS @
400/5.6 -- If you have the time.

JoeyW
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I don't have any "hard data" to prove it, but my impression is that the IS does function on a tripod. I was getting sharper pictures with IS on than with it OFF on a tripod at 1/200 sec.
 
Thanks FRED,

BTW, could you really try once how EF100-400mm will look like with 1.4x Extender II?

Thanks again for all your efforts!

Griffin.
 
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