SB600 or 800 w/ D50

Kelton Sweet · Dec 24, 2005

I will now admit that I might need a nice flash (after insisting that I am dedicated to indoor natural light photography).

Sometimes, you just need some frig'n quality light! OK... so I know nothing about flash photography.

So if I just want to add some nice soft light to indoor "people" candids such that I can use ISO200, will a SB600 be sufficient?

I will rarely be more than 15 ft away from my subject, assume I will want to bounce and "diffuse" whatever light hits my subject.

I'm using a D50 and would like it if I could use a flash without having to study the physics of light!

Kelton

AlbieSky · Dec 24, 2005

I bought the SB600 since I really won't be using the extra things on the SB800. However, I have a D70 and it can act as a commander. I think the D50 can't act as a commander.

There was a post on the D200 forum, where a guy took some great pics, and he had a SB600.

Most people will tell you to buy the most you can afford. I will be buying a SB 800 to add to my SB 600 for indoor flash.
--
D70, 50mm 1.4, 18-70mm kit, PSE 4, NC 4, SB-600, D200 on 12/24/05.

85mm · Dec 24, 2005

what lens are you using? maybe a faster lens might be better for candids.

Kelton Sweet said:
I will now admit that I might need a nice flash (after insisting
that I am dedicated to indoor natural light photography).

Sometimes, you just need some frig'n quality light! OK... so I
know nothing about flash photography.

So if I just want to add some nice soft light to indoor "people"
candids such that I can use ISO200, will a SB600 be sufficient?

I will rarely be more than 15 ft away from my subject, assume I
will want to bounce and "diffuse" whatever light hits my subject.

I'm using a D50 and would like it if I could use a flash without
having to study the physics of light!

Kelton

John Buchmann · Dec 24, 2005

I can't recommend one flash over the other, but good move to try flash indoors. I also was dead set on dealing with available light. In many cases it's great, but sometimes i have to go all the way to F/1.4 and ISO 1600. Some locations this would be OK to live with (often a necessity), but at home, i'm finding I can and should do better. So I whipped out the SB800 that's been collecting dust for a few weeks. (afraid to try it, haha. The manual intimidated me!) But i'm so glad I gave it a try. Bounce flash is great. The flash does all the work for me and so far i've never had a bad bounce-flash exposure. Can't wait to try fill flash outdoors.

Now in bad light i'm getting fast shutter speed, ISO 200, and a sharp F4 aperture. Now i can't imagine not having my flash!

John

David Lal · Dec 24, 2005

I'm sure you'd find the SB600 a very useful addition to your arsenal and be happy with it but if you can afford it, it'd go with the SB800. If at some time down the road you want to make use of the Nikon creative lighting system you'll need a flash that can be in commander mode. The D50, unlike the D70 does not have that - and neither does the SB600 but the SB800 does. Therefore choosing the SB800 now would compensate for the lack of this feature on the body.

There is an article on the Ken Rockwell site that compares the two guns and favours the SB600 but I think, does not take into account the absence of commander mode on the D50:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb600vs800.htm

Merry Christmas
David

larsbc · Dec 24, 2005

Kelton Sweet said:
So if I just want to add some nice soft light to indoor "people"
candids such that I can use ISO200, will a SB600 be sufficient?

Yes, the SB600 will be just fine. BTW, don't forget that bounce doesn't mean ceiling only. Sometimes, you can get a better light by bouncing off a wall or from the corner where wall meets ceiling. Fortunately, the SB600 rotates on two axes, just like the SB800.

You'll need the SB800 if you want to control another flash wirelessly, but if you're only talking about ONE flash for now, it might as well be the 600 since, even if you bought the 800, you still wouldn't have another flash to control. If you decide to buy a 2nd flash, then get the 800.

larsbc

dingo62 · Dec 25, 2005

yeah, agree with larsbc's logic. get sb600, when you need more, then get the sb800 later on.

larsbc said:
Kelton Sweet said:

So if I just want to add some nice soft light to indoor "people"
candids such that I can use ISO200, will a SB600 be sufficient?

Click to expand...

Yes, the SB600 will be just fine. BTW, don't forget that bounce
doesn't mean ceiling only. Sometimes, you can get a better light
by bouncing off a wall or from the corner where wall meets ceiling.
Fortunately, the SB600 rotates on two axes, just like the SB800.

You'll need the SB800 if you want to control another flash
wirelessly, but if you're only talking about ONE flash for now, it
might as well be the 600 since, even if you bought the 800, you
still wouldn't have another flash to control. If you decide to buy
a 2nd flash, then get the 800.

larsbc

--
in binary, 10 + 10 = 100
------------------------------

D50
Nikon 18-55
Nikon 55-200
Sigma 70-300 APO SII Macro
Nikon SB-600

Sony DSC-F707
Nikon F75, F401

Kelton Sweet · Dec 25, 2005

Thanks for th advice.

Is there a diffuser sort of attachement that is well liked and works well on the 600? I have been impressed by the shots in this forum that are simply bounced w/o diffuser, but I'll do anything to avoid shots that look to "flashy".

I just spent the last week at a couple of big family Christmas parties. Using the indoor lighting was a bit of a hassle because slow shutter speeds, high ISO shots and difficult lighting made some otherwise beautiful shots a bit sketchy (pronounced grain in shots that I had to intentionally underexpose in order to get a holdable shutter speed).

The grain didn't look too bad, but I realized the utility of good light when one is simply trying to capture clear pics.

The onboard flash was OK in a pinch, but my only lens (12-24) casts a shadow at the widest angle.

Kelton

85mm · Dec 25, 2005

Kelton Sweet said:
The onboard flash was OK in a pinch, but my only lens (12-24) casts
a shadow at the widest angle.

you're brave for trying use to use only available indoor light with an f/4 lens. the sb600 and sb800 are great but it may cost you some candid photo ops. an external flash always comes in handy but you may want to consider getting the 35 f/2, 50 f/1.4 or 50 f/1.8 lens for your purposes. the onboard flash would also not cast a shadow with these lenses (but you stil can't bounce flash). if funds are tight, you could get the sb600 + 50 f/1.8 for the same price as the sb800. the 50 f/1.4 is really better for low light shots and the 35 f/2 is easier for shooting more than one person but each cost $250ish new.

Kelton Sweet · Dec 25, 2005

I ordered a 50 1.4 when I bought the D50, but it was backordered... it should be here in a day or two.

The wide angle of the Tokina is somewhat forgiving of slow shutter speeds and hand held shots, so the F4 worked OK with 1600iso... the vast majority of my shots were keepers even if they had some artifacts of these factors.

I look forward to the 50 1.4... the tokina and the 50 were easy decisions... now I'm confronted with "what lens should I get?" that everyone else seems to suffer. I realize that I will need a longer reach zoom... at the moment, I'm thinking 28-105 even though it's an odd range. This should complete my lens concerns for a while.

Kelton

morris · Dec 25, 2005

When you are this close, even the least expensive flash units can do a fine job and you can afford more than one with cheap optical slaves for them. The Nikon creative lighting system is what you gain by going with the SB600 or SB800. Any flash with auto exposure will make it easier for you till you lean how flash works.

Morris

Ps, you have a built in flash and you can purchase a diffuser and reflectors as well.

--

http://qcpages.qc.edu/~morris/POD

Kelton Sweet · Dec 25, 2005

Thanks.

so there are diffusers for the built-in flash?

I will be using the 12-24 quite a bit, should I get some sort of diffuser thing for the 600 to make sure it covers the wide end?

I can't remember the name of the product that gets a lot of mention: the "omni" something? I think it's a frosted piece of plastic that goes on the end of the flash.

Kelton

Kelton Sweet · Dec 25, 2005

Does the SB-600 have that little bounce/diffuser thing built in?

Kelton

larsbc · Dec 25, 2005

Kelton Sweet said:
Does the SB-600 have that little bounce/diffuser thing built in?

It has a diffuser that spreads the flash out to cover a wider focal length, just like on the SB800. It does not, however, come with a flip-out white card or bounce dome, both are which are designed to direct some light directly to the subject, while the rest bounces. However,the price to replicate these features via third-party products is very low. For the flip-out white card, you could just attach a small piece of white note card to the SB600 via rubber band.

larsbc

larsbc · Dec 25, 2005

Kelton Sweet said:
Is there a diffuser sort of attachement that is well liked and
works well on the 600? I have been impressed by the shots in this
forum that are simply bounced w/o diffuser, but I'll do anything to
avoid shots that look to "flashy".

There are a variety of add-ons that you can buy for most flash units to alter the quality of the flash output. But imo, the biggest difference comes from bouncing. The various attachments that direct a portion of the light directly to the subject have some effect but it may be extremely subtle (depends on your expectations and situation). Personally, I think the next thing most useful thing to buy is an umbrella stand and reflector. That really makes a big difference...but it's not as useful for candid shots where you're constantly on the move.

For that type of thing, I think one flash on your camera, used non-bounce, and another that fires up at the ceiling would be quite effective. The bounce flash would illuminate the background and soften any harsh shadows created by the direct flash. This is similar to setups that some wedding photos use for reception shots or dance floor shots.

larsbc

Chris_NH · Dec 25, 2005

I have a D70 and the SB600. It works great for me. The big thing with the SB800 is higher output, and multiple flash unit capabilities. If I buy a second flash, I will get the SB800 then.

For what you describe, the SB600 should be plenty. If you have money to spare, then go for the SB800. You'll be happy with the results either way.

--
Chris in NH USA
http://www.pbase.com/xrxfixr
Don't toss it. Fix it!

Hal Fisher · Dec 25, 2005

Another seldom mention benefit to the 800 is the 5th battery attachement. It helps charge the flash faster and reduces battery swapping (5 batteries last longer than only 4).

Don't be affraid to take the door off to attach it, its comes off fairly easy accourding to the directions.

Hal

Keith Diefendorff · Dec 25, 2005

larsbc said:
Kelton Sweet said:

So if I just want to add some nice soft light to indoor "people"
candids such that I can use ISO200, will a SB600 be sufficient?

Click to expand...

....

You'll need the SB800 if you want to control another flash
wirelessly, but if you're only talking about ONE flash for now, it
might as well be the 600 since, even if you bought the 800, you
still wouldn't have another flash to control. If you decide to buy
a 2nd flash, then get the 800.

I don't agree. When he buys the second flash he will wish they were both 800's. When he buys the third, he will wish they were all three 800s. And when he buys the fourth he will still wish they were all 800s. (Four is right number to have.) A 600 is simply not as useful in a multi-speedlight flash system as an 800.

Better to pay the extra $100 for the SB-800 now than to pay $200 for an SB-600 that you will later want to replace with an 800. The only case in which the 600 is okay is if it is the ONLY flash you will ever buy for the camera, and you are sure of that. If you think you might someday want a multiflash system, go with 800 now, and later.

--
Keith

dbvand · Dec 25, 2005

I bought the SB-600 about 8 months ago thinking it would be all I ever needed since I'm not a pro and I just wanted it for casual use.

Now don't get me wrong, the SB-600 is fantastic but the SB-800 has a LOT of features and accessories that the SB600 does not. A LOT!

While any one of these features or accessories alone may seem insignificant, when you consider them all together, they add up to a lot of extra value for a small cost.

When you add in the commander mode function for the D50, the SB800 is DEFINITELY worth the extra cost.
--
Bryan V.

Chris_NH · Dec 25, 2005

Forgot to mention, if you go for the SB600, get a Stofen Omnibounce ($16.95) to go with it. It's the plastic diffuser dome. The SB800 comes with one. Hope that helps..

--
Chris in NH USA
http://www.pbase.com/xrxfixr
Don't toss it. Fix it!

SB600 or 800 w/ D50

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