R1 - huge disappointment

bluevalentine · Dec 20, 2005

I got a 'hands-on' of the new R1 today and was hugely disappointed.
Ergonomics are poor, camera feels clumsy in the hand
Build quality nothing like as good as either the 828 or my Olympus 8080
Screen quality extremely poor
ditto EVF

Given better build quality and ergonomics I would have plonked down the money on the spot - an F2 version of the Zeiss lens on it and I'd have paid another 300 euro on top.

VERDICT Sony missed the opportunity to provide a really great camera for studio work where a 10 mpx non-SLR wih a big bright screen could carve out a niche especially for macro/portraiture/pack and food photography where it's handy to have preview and where speed of working is not of the essence.

IMO the R1 is a great lens waiting for a camera, such a shame.

Anthony Halley · Dec 20, 2005

Fir my mind and work the R1 is supurbly better than my 828 or 707 - works well for me both for intor architectural and aerial - great optics and ergonomics ... and the pictures, well, at least 24 x 36' every time!

Tony
--
R1 and 828 in the air down under (707 and 505 in the cupboard!)

Meshwork · Dec 20, 2005

...the image quality it seems is far superior to the 828.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 828 - in fact I have two of them - and the build quality is very good with near excellent ergonomics. But of course with a large sensor in Sony's newest high-end release there was the need for a complete redesign which probably had to necessarily exclude the incorporation of the swivel feature as well as the greater use of plastic to stay competitive.

Still, I was somewhat disappinted to find that the new R1 was made of plastic over a metal chassis only, and that it did not include a top panel display - it's pretty hard to read the settings (for me) unless you use the EVF.

On the other hand, in a couple of years if the price drops significantly I might consider the R1. For the low light landscape work that I like to do it will certainly give me cleaner images than what I generally get from my 828.
--
Mesh
Australia
828, G5
5% lighting, 5% composition. 90% location. Get there.

David McA · Dec 20, 2005

bluevalentine said:
a big bright screen could carve out a niche especially for
macro/portraiture/pack and food photography where it's handy to
have preview and where speed of working is not of the essence.

Why not plug it into a monitor via video output for studio use? I do this regularly with my current camera. Just a 24" screen but try putting that on a camera!

David

Tigadee · Dec 20, 2005

Few have complained about ergonomics or the LCD. In fact, for studio work, with the bright lights, I doubt you'd find the LCD a handicap...

And the LCD is so sharp, it's perfect for manually focusing the camera, first time ever with a digicam! I do not hesitate using the MF if I needed to, unlike the F707 and F828 before...

--

Your 4 'Cees' for photography: Crisp, Clean, Composed and Colourful
http://www.tigadee.fotopic.net

RIVERFOOT · Dec 20, 2005

--

C.J. advise gladly accepted. please tell me what you did; tools used; as i know very little about pp. thanks. http://christel.smugmug.com

Paul-F828 · Dec 20, 2005

bluevalentine said:
I got a 'hands-on' of the new R1 today and was hugely disappointed.
Ergonomics are poor, camera feels clumsy in the hand

I was surprised how good the ergonomics are in the R1 I had my doubts before I got my hands on it but the control layout is better than the 828

bluevalentine said:
Build quality nothing like as good as either the 828 or my Olympus
8080

It may be plastic but its the usual superb build quality you'd expect from Sony, did you handle some kind of pre-production model?

bluevalentine said:
Screen quality extremely poor

??? The R1's screen is a massive leap forward from the 828 and the best screen I've seen on a camera so far

bluevalentine said:
ditto EVF

--
Paul
http://www.flickr.com/photos/digipixuk/
.::Sony R1 - What a camera!::.
.::Sony F828 - mmm the swivel!::.

Dana199162 · Dec 20, 2005

I think the R1 is quite nice, and the EFV works well for what it is.

Whiner.
--
Dana Curtis Kincaid

John200973 · Dec 20, 2005

Mine is such a disappointment that for the holidays my D200, D2X, 5D, and 1Ds Mark II get to stay home for the holidays and the R1 will do my shooting. Tired of hauling that heavy stuff around for only marginally better photos. So far the photos from the R1 are "better" than my D200 (I guess CCD ain't that great after all) and my 5D (a real disappointment), equal of my D2X but not up to my 1Ds Mark II ($7000 more will buy a little quality).

No I won't be shooting any fast paced high school girl volleyball games in a dimly lit gym at ISO 3200 so it will be just fine (my favorite test on this forum that "always" confirms the quality and capability of a camera).

fishcatcher · Dec 20, 2005

Everyone to his own tastes, but I too have an Oly 8080, among other digital cameras, including a D70 and about $25,000 worth of top of the line Nikkor lenses, and I have seen images from the R1 that I simply could not get with the 8080--and I do consider it a very good camera with a really good lens--just not the quality of the Vario Sonnar on the R1.

Andi Buchner · Dec 20, 2005

My 8080's price tag was 200 Euro more than the R1's. The camera is exzellent for what it (costs and) wants to be. No more and for sure no less.

If you need other features: there are enough cameras out there. And during next year there will be an SonyKoMi DSLR. And then you among many others might understand why the R1 is limited in certain respects.

Regards,
Andi
--
http://www.pbase.com/anbuccos
pbase supporter

talent28 · Dec 21, 2005

bluevalentine said:
Ergonomics are poor, camera feels clumsy in the hand

That's personal preference of course, but I seriously question such a statement from a guy who just handled the cam for a few minutes.

bluevalentine said:
Build quality nothing like as good as either the 828 or my Olympus
8080

That's just false. I used to own the F828, now the R1. Build quality is the same. They are both plastic over metal frame. Never tried the C8080, but from what I hear build is excellent.

bluevalentine said:
Screen quality extremely poor
ditto EVF

The EVF, of course, cannot compare in clarity to a TTL OVF. However, one of the big reasons for choosing the R1 over an entry level DSLR is the ability of a live preview, especially on the LCD for shooting from the hip. Compared to every other digicam I have ever seen, the R1 LCD is very fast and clear. Your statement is flawed.

bluevalentine said:
Given better build quality and ergonomics I would have plonked down
the money on the spot - an F2 version of the Zeiss lens on it and
I'd have paid another 300 euro on top.

Seems you less enlightened people just don't get it: With a much larger sensor to cover, it is impossible to make the R1 lens as fast as the F828 lens without adding excessive bulk and expense. You need to compare the R1 lens to DSLR lenses made for large sensors. Then you'll see that 24-120mm f2.8-4.8 is unique and unmatched.

bluevalentine said:
VERDICT

Verdict? That's a good one. You actually have a verdict after handling the camera for a couple of minutes? Come back after you've used the camera extensively for at least a couple of weeks. Until then, your "verdict" is useless.

bluevalentine · Dec 21, 2005

Well, I suppose I should have expected the flak. I don't think i really deserved it, except my use of "verdict" was probably a bit OTT.

Can I just say my initial disappointment was more in sorrow than in anger because I was expecting so much from the R1. And I don't seem to have Poster John's bottomless pocket so for me my new camera has to be an advance on the 8080 and it has to be 'right'. I can just about stretch to a D200 but, hey, i'm a fan of live preview too and, as an old Contax RTS user, Zeiss glass.

I didn't "handle the camera for a few minutes" btw, I borrowed one for the afternoon and 'wasted' 3 x 512 cards.

Some cameras feel intuitive in their layout and you can get to grips with them quite quickly. - the Nikon D200 is one, the Minolta 7D and A2 are others - I'm afraid the R1 didn't. It probably falls into the 8080 pattern - i.e. fine when you get used to it. I also have short fingers and didn't find the R1 handgrip all that comfortable, maybe a case of wrestling fingers around it till you get comfy, I don't know.
The EVF is definitely not as good as either the 8080 or the brilliant A2.

The screen didn't seem anything out of the ordinary, the camera I tried seemed to lag a bit on refreshment - maybe a QC glitch. I don't know.

Re build, I would have liked a more 'metallic' lump. Some cameras feel sturdy - 8080 does/A2 doesn't quite (and isn't). Anyhow I don't mind weight in a camera.
For the R1's lens I have nothing but praise - focus

Sorry if I uspet so many peoples' sensibilites. Good to hear from so many happy users though.
If it's any consolation it's persuaded me to go back and have a second look.

Tigadee · Dec 21, 2005

bluevalentine said:
bluevalentine wrote:
Well, I suppose I should have expected the flak. I don't think i
really deserved it, except my use of "verdict" was probably a bit
OTT.

Heh! Heh! I was expecting some strong stuff to come your way, but it was pretty mild except for one or two replies! LOL!

bluevalentine said:
I didn't "handle the camera for a few minutes" btw, I borrowed one
for the afternoon and 'wasted' 3 x 512 cards.

And what about the image results? Don;t they beat the F828 and C8080?

bluevalentine said:
Some cameras feel intuitive in their layout and you can get to
grips with them quite quickly. - the Nikon D200 is one, the Minolta
7D and A2 are others - I'm afraid the R1 didn't.

Yes, the A2 did have a terrifc handgrip...

bluevalentine said:
It probably falls
into the 8080 pattern - i.e. fine when you get used to it. I also
have short fingers and didn't find the R1 handgrip all that
comfortable, maybe a case of wrestling fingers around it till you
get comfy, I don't know.

I didn't like the C8080's handgrip, felt fat and stumpy... If you have short fingers, then I can see why the R1 may feel uncomfortable to you...

bluevalentine said:
The EVF is definitely not as good as either the 8080 or the
brilliant A2.

I suspect the R1's EVF and LCD are among the technologies shared by KM to Sony, which explain its sharpness - enough to manual focus by (which I never had much luck with the F707 or F828) and judge focus accuracy with in review mode.

bluevalentine said:
The screen didn't seem anything out of the ordinary, the camera I
tried seemed to lag a bit on refreshment - maybe a QC glitch. I
don't know.

Should set to Framing mode. I dislike the preview mode...

bluevalentine said:
Re build, I would have liked a more 'metallic' lump. Some cameras
feel sturdy - 8080 does/A2 doesn't quite (and isn't). Anyhow I
don't mind weight in a camera.

True, but I don't feel insecure with the R1 like you did, and I had the F828 and my current DSLR is the 20D which is like a mini-1D...

bluevalentine said:
Sorry if I uspet so many peoples' sensibilites. Good to hear from
so many happy users though.

Well, maybe it's just a matter of using the camera for some time. For me, as a F828 user, I took to the R1 like a fish to water. I didn't feel unfamiliar with the R1 at all (excpt for the initial urge to twist the camera like a pretzel!)...

bluevalentine said:
If it's any consolation it's persuaded me to go back and have a
second look.

Hooray! Hope you feel better the 2nd time round, sometimes it's like sex! It's not always the first time that's the best! LOL!

I had the same experience when I first had my F707, the first week felt really weird using the camera with its unorthodox design, but then I really relished it once I got used to it!

--

Your 4 'Cees' for photography: Crisp, Clean, Composed and Colourful
http://www.tigadee.fotopic.net

Michael Crowder · Dec 21, 2005

that this post went 24 hrs and the word "Troll" wasn't used. I think people should be able to express their opinions, both positive and negative. While I disagree with what he said, I support his right to say it.

bluevalentine · Dec 21, 2005

Thanks for that.

I was pleased too, the more because I'm not a troll whcih I believe to be a person who ues another make of camera and just posts to be annoying or controversial. That wasn't the intent - I'm genuinely sorry I didn't like the R1 as much as I thouht I was going to.When I read the spec I thought hey - 10mpx, super qual, live preview, easy waist level, great lens etc etc and

my initial impresions of the whole package didn't quite hold up. The posts convinced me I should take a second look and I will - this strikes me as a fit and proper use for a forum.
So while we're on the subject

1) getting shot of depth of field is a priority for me. At full zoom (135 at 35mm rating) the aperture is 4.8, is that correct? If I stop dopwn to 5.6 or 8 can I still have sharp focus on the subject and the background out of focus???

2) Flash. Given the flash on most cameras is fairly Mickey Mouse, although Sony's seem better than many, what's the most powerful external flash I can buy + adapter to retain all the auto functions???
3) will R1's noise at 400 ASA give me a pic to reproduce at A4 in a magazine?

These are the questions I was edging towrds when I got twitchy and made my first post!

ekamera · Dec 21, 2005

with R1 , now everyone will start wanted for larger sensor and better image quality - in prosumer setup.
To bad sony charge DSLR price for this.

Tigadee · Dec 21, 2005

bluevalentine said:
bluevalentine wrote:
1) getting shot of depth of field is a priority for me. At full
zoom (135 at 35mm rating) the aperture is 4.8, is that correct? If
I stop dopwn to 5.6 or 8 can I still have sharp focus on the
subject and the background out of focus???

120mm, not 135mm. Possible but less likely if your background is not far enough away from your subject...

bluevalentine said:
2) Flash. Given the flash on most cameras is fairly Mickey Mouse,
although Sony's seem better than many, what's the most powerful
external flash I can buy + adapter to retain all the auto
functions???

Mecablitz 44-MZ2 and SCA3602M4 Sony module although a good non-TTL flash can still do a good job:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=16344976

bluevalentine said:
3) will R1's noise at 400 ASA give me a pic to reproduce at A4 in a
magazine?

Yes. Easily...
--

Your 4 'Cees' for photography: Crisp, Clean, Composed and Colourful
http://www.tigadee.fotopic.net

Henry Falkner · Dec 22, 2005

Sounds like sour grapes to me, like, you are not in the market right now. Neither am I. But for me that is no reason to put the R1 down.

I am eyeing the R1 as an improvement over my 35mm all-in-one SLRs Olympus IS-1000 and IS-2000. These also have plastic bodies, but they are still in working order with nothing broken.

Henry

--
Henry Falkner - C-40, C-750UZ, Stylus 800 http://www.pbase.com/hfalkner

Snapsh0t2 · Dec 22, 2005

Tigadee said:
Tigadee said:

bluevalentine wrote:
2) Flash. Given the flash on most cameras is fairly Mickey Mouse,
although Sony's seem better than many, what's the most powerful
external flash I can buy + adapter to retain all the auto
functions???

Click to expand...

Mecablitz 44-MZ2 and SCA3602M4 Sony module although a good non-TTL flash can still do a good job:

Although I'm probably going to buy the 44-MZ2 myself I don't see why the 54-MZ4 or even the 70-MZ5 wouldn't work with the SCA3602M4 module.

Jonathan (at 'work')

R1 - huge disappointment

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