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Dimage 7 EXPOSURING

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marc63062

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When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
 
marc said:
When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very
little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have
hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in
lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get
it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are
much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the
sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
Click to expand...
==============
other people say about my pictures :

your new pictures don't "live" , your old ones do
 
marc said:
When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very
little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have
hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in
lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get
it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are
much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the
sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
Click to expand...
To get assistance from the gurus on the forum (I'm not one of them) you will have to provide more information, i.e., what sort of computer processing, camera metering mode and other settings..

The multi segment metering in this camera does not do the job for some conditions. You might want to go to center weighted or spot in those cases. Manual mode is super. You can expose for max detail in the areas you want. I have been getting absolutely awesome shots from the D7.

It is not a point and shoot camera, however.

Bill G
 
Marc,

My suggestion is to use the EVF for exposure measurement. To me it is a 'bad' practice as I know I am going to lose my feel of f stop and shutter speed. Today, I still can look at a scene and figure out roughly what the exposure should be. But, the EVF completely eliminate the need of this experience. I usually just aim for the highlight to see sufficient details, and I know from experience with the D7 that I can get details in the shadow. It is a good start to set at Contrast -2 or even -3 for contrast scene, until you feel good about the camera. Then you start matching the scene contrast to your camera setting. I had the same complain about lack of contrast too at the beginning but the camera and I have been really working good together after two months.

Don't get discouraged yet because you have problem getting what you want from the D7 now. At least you have seen what the D7 can do from viewing others images. Also, try to open the D7 images directly in Photoshop with 'No Color Management' and stay away from the DIVU for now, until someone figures out how to use the DIVU properly.

Remember shooting digital is like shooting slides: aim for the highlight for expsoure; when in doubt under-exposed. Once the highlight is blown out, it is gone forever. There is no process or software can bring back something that is not there. If one knows about the S curve characteristic of films, you can visualize a very sharp 'shoulder' but a very gentle 'toe' in digital.

We have told you the D7 is a beast and takes some learning to use it properly. But once it is tamed, it can work magic. Go ahead and give it another try. Shoot some more images with the EVF ONLY. You may have to adjust the brightness of the EVF up and down to match the scene better. I find that I have been between 2 & 3 setting in EVF brightness. Look at the EXIF of your good and bad images and learn from them. You will be there. Good luck.
marc said:
When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very
little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have
hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in
lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get
it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are
much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the
sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
Click to expand...
 
Put the camera in manual mode. choose the apeture you want to work with based upon the depth of field you need.

Change the shutter speed until the image in the viewfinder has the right saturation and/or amount of detail in the highlights. If there is no detail at all in the shadow area slow down the shutter speed a bit until you get just a little bit of detail in the shadows. definitely concentrate on the highlights.
Optionally use fill flash to add extra detail into the shadows.
focus. take picture.

In photoshop make a selection that only affects the shadow areas of the image. Use an adjustment layer to open up the shadows using curves or levels.

Just a suggestion
kirk
marc said:
marc said:
When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very
little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have
hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in
lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get
it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are
much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the
sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
Click to expand...
==============
other people say about my pictures :

your new pictures don't "live" , your old ones do
Click to expand...
 
Stephen Lau said:
Marc,
My suggestion is to use the EVF for exposure measurement. To me it
is a 'bad' practice as I know I am going to lose my feel of f stop
and shutter speed. Today, I still can look at a scene and figure
out roughly what the exposure should be. But, the EVF completely
eliminate the need of this experience. I usually just aim for the
highlight to see sufficient details, and I know from experience
with the D7 that I can get details in the shadow. It is a good
start to set at Contrast -2 or even -3 for contrast scene, until
you feel good about the camera. Then you start matching the scene
contrast to your camera setting. I had the same complain about lack
of contrast too at the beginning but the camera and I have been
really working good together after two months.

Don't get discouraged yet because you have problem getting what you
want from the D7 now. At least you have seen what the D7 can do
from viewing others images. Also, try to open the D7 images
directly in Photoshop with 'No Color Management' and stay away from
the DIVU for now, until someone figures out how to use the DIVU
properly.

Remember shooting digital is like shooting slides: aim for the
highlight for expsoure; when in doubt under-exposed. Once the
highlight is blown out, it is gone forever. There is no process or
software can bring back something that is not there. If one knows
about the S curve characteristic of films, you can visualize a very
sharp 'shoulder' but a very gentle 'toe' in digital.

We have told you the D7 is a beast and takes some learning to use
it properly. But once it is tamed, it can work magic. Go ahead and
give it another try. Shoot some more images with the EVF ONLY. You
may have to adjust the brightness of the EVF up and down to match
the scene better. I find that I have been between 2 & 3 setting in
EVF brightness. Look at the EXIF of your good and bad images and
learn from them. You will be there. Good luck.
Click to expand...
======================

thanks Strephen ,

this morning I went to Amsterdam for some day-off shooting and came back with poor results .
I must say that the D7 is not an easy camera to use but that is not what
I'm looking for anyway .
Just trying to learn the camera , and my message here was only to hear
some more users and there experiences.
Haha , I'm certainly not giving up !

I think manual is also a good way to get the right exposure in the part where you want it ??
I'll mail you some results on monday or tuesday .

Marc
 
Hi Marc (or should I say hallo ?)

I repeat what Stephen said in other words: once you learn to use the EVF , the D7 becomes an easy to use point& shoot camera as well (apart from all its other qualities); when you want to take a scene, look carefully in the evf: too bright, move you camera a little bit around that scene untill you get the correct exposure (= good colors in the evf) , fix it and go back to the original scene and take the shot; you always get something that is either fully correct or only needs a little tweaking; if you see a blown out highlight in the evf don't take the shot; the D7 takes a learning curve, once done it is easy to use
Henri
marc said:
Stephen Lau said:
Marc,
My suggestion is to use the EVF for exposure measurement. To me it
is a 'bad' practice as I know I am going to lose my feel of f stop
and shutter speed. Today, I still can look at a scene and figure
out roughly what the exposure should be. But, the EVF completely
eliminate the need of this experience. I usually just aim for the
highlight to see sufficient details, and I know from experience
with the D7 that I can get details in the shadow. It is a good
start to set at Contrast -2 or even -3 for contrast scene, until
you feel good about the camera. Then you start matching the scene
contrast to your camera setting. I had the same complain about lack
of contrast too at the beginning but the camera and I have been
really working good together after two months.

Don't get discouraged yet because you have problem getting what you
want from the D7 now. At least you have seen what the D7 can do
from viewing others images. Also, try to open the D7 images
directly in Photoshop with 'No Color Management' and stay away from
the DIVU for now, until someone figures out how to use the DIVU
properly.

Remember shooting digital is like shooting slides: aim for the
highlight for expsoure; when in doubt under-exposed. Once the
highlight is blown out, it is gone forever. There is no process or
software can bring back something that is not there. If one knows
about the S curve characteristic of films, you can visualize a very
sharp 'shoulder' but a very gentle 'toe' in digital.

We have told you the D7 is a beast and takes some learning to use
it properly. But once it is tamed, it can work magic. Go ahead and
give it another try. Shoot some more images with the EVF ONLY. You
may have to adjust the brightness of the EVF up and down to match
the scene better. I find that I have been between 2 & 3 setting in
EVF brightness. Look at the EXIF of your good and bad images and
learn from them. You will be there. Good luck.
Click to expand...
======================

thanks Strephen ,

this morning I went to Amsterdam for some day-off shooting and came
back with poor results .
I must say that the D7 is not an easy camera to use but that is not
what
I'm looking for anyway .
Just trying to learn the camera , and my message here was only to hear
some more users and there experiences.
Haha , I'm certainly not giving up !
I think manual is also a good way to get the right exposure in the
part where you want it ??
I'll mail you some results on monday or tuesday .

Marc
Click to expand...
 
Hi Marc,
It is good to hear some positive tone from you regarding the D7 :> )).

I think using the Manual mode in conjunction with the EVF is the way to success with the D7, as the results are so PREDICTABLE. No fuss and no surprises. What you see is what you get!!! I posted this before and I am going to post one more time how I use the EVF:

(1) Set D7 at M mode and set your aperture for appropiate DOF

(2) Look into the EVF and then look at the scene. Do this a few times to 'register' the information in your brain. You may find adjusting the brightness of the EVF necessary to have a better match. It will NOT be a perfec tmatch but get the best you can.

(3) Adjust the exposure (f stop or shutter speed) while loking into the EVF. Aim for the highlight as the EVF is too contrast to judge for the full tonal range. In other words, the shadow will probably be too dark in the EVF but with Contrast -2 or -3, you will most likely get the details in shadow. Make sure your highlight has some details. Manual forcus with the Elec. Mag helps to judge the adjustment too.

Please go ahead and post some of your good and bad images so that we can learn from each other. Also remember post the camera settings and your workflow too for a complete picture. You are more than welcome to send me your images privately too. Looking forward to it. Good luck.
marc said:
this morning I went to Amsterdam for some day-off shooting and came
back with poor results .
I must say that the D7 is not an easy camera to use but that is not
what
I'm looking for anyway .
Just trying to learn the camera , and my message here was only to hear
some more users and there experiences.
Haha , I'm certainly not giving up !
I think manual is also a good way to get the right exposure in the
part where you want it ??
I'll mail you some results on monday or tuesday .

Marc
Click to expand...
 
Marc, if you use -2 contrast, and you take a picture of a Kodak or whatever 18% gray card, the gray card pixels should peak right about in the middle of the "histogram" or exposure graph that is available in playback or quick review mode. Thus we turn the camera into an extremely expensive light meter. A few checks of histogram, and then looking back into the EVF, while in manual mode, and you'll begin to get a feel of what the EVF looks like when things are roughly right.

And unless you are prepared to roll up your sleeves and learn a lot about image manipulations, like Stephen and the others have, consider paying $70 for Profile Prism from ddisoftware to "correct" the somewhat nonstandard colorspace of the D7. Or experiment with putting your images through the Minolta DIVU, which also knows how to standardize the D7 colorspace.
 
o.k. I'm convinced now that very good results must be possible with
camera set on Manual and just make my own descission on the exposure
by looking at the EVF image,
what I read thusfar on this forum this should be the solution.

I'll work that way next shooting and let you know

thanks

Marc
 
In order to be more convincing, I have posted some examples here:
http://www.pbase.com/image/417915

The BEFORE processing image was directly out of the camera with no processing excpt resized in Photoshop. You would think the shadow details are gone for good. But look at the AFTER processing images which shows (at least on my monitor) all the details of the tree trunk. If I want to, I can show even lot more details. The BEFORE shot was set up to capture the highlught detals (cloud reflection in the water). Contrast -2 handled this rather contrast scene nicely. I can tell you that there is no loss of shadow details in the 'original' shot. You just have to get the details out.

I have also posted individual BEFORE and AFTER images for download and play with. The steps to go to the AFTER image: open the BEFORE image directly in PS with no color management; adjust with Level and Curve.

BTW, while I was shooting for example, I took a few more shots too since I was only 20 steps away from my front door. Here are the images:
http://www.pbase.com/image/417897
marc said:
o.k. I'm convinced now that very good results must be possible with
camera set on Manual and just make my own descission on the exposure
by looking at the EVF image,
what I read thusfar on this forum this should be the solution.

I'll work that way next shooting and let you know

thanks

Marc
Click to expand...
 
Hello Marc,

I know the camera is sometime hard to set properly for the best shot. Here is an example of a picture I took today with minimal care for the settings. I think it shows the quality of the D7 at capturing shadows and highlight event in such hard conditions as capturing a drop of water.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=394007

Good luck,

Bernard
marc said:
o.k. I'm convinced now that very good results must be possible with
camera set on Manual and just make my own descission on the exposure
by looking at the EVF image,
what I read thusfar on this forum this should be the solution.

I'll work that way next shooting and let you know

thanks

Marc
Click to expand...
 
Hardly what you'd expect do have to do to get a decent picture from a $1500 piece of state-of-the-art photographic equipment wouldn't you say?
simpatico said:
In photoshop make a selection that only affects the shadow areas of
the image. Use an adjustment layer to open up the shadows using
curves or levels.

Just a suggestion
kirk
marc said:
marc said:
When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very
little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have
hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in
lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get
it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are
much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the
sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
Click to expand...
==============
other people say about my pictures :

your new pictures don't "live" , your old ones do
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
No, you sound like you have never done any photography before. You are the type who thinks you can just pick up a D1x or a Hasselblad and becomes the top photographer instanteneously.

State of the art does not mean point and shoot. The space shuttle is definitely state of the art equipment. Why does it takes so long to learn handling the space shuttle, even with the top notch personnels? It is expensive too, at least for me. It costs a lot more than $1500 and it should fly by itself then.

Are you implying that you don't have to do anything to get a decent picture if the equipment costs a lot of money?? Now, I understand why all the top photographers use expensive equipments since they are the reason why they can get decent pictures and stay at the top!!!! I am so glad that I spent enough money to buy the D7. I will never need to do any work to get decent images. No more editing programs and no more learning. How nice!!!
OverExposed said:
Hardly what you'd expect do have to do to get a decent picture from
a $1500 piece of state-of-the-art photographic equipment wouldn't
you say?
Click to expand...
 
I had been using multi-segment for exposure, and that seemed to be where my biggest problems were. Once I changed to spot which is what I use for focus also, things got much better. Even center-weighted made a big difference.

People told me the exact same things about my QV 3000 pictures compared to the D7.. The QV 3000 were much more alive. Changing the exposure mode helped.

Now, I've saved the settings I use most often in either memory 1 or 2 and then night time settings in 3. Too bad a set of pictures from Orland weren't exposed very well, but that's life.
marc said:
When I compare images of my new D7 with image of my old Fuji 6900 and
my Casio 3000 the following occurs :

D7 images are badly exposed , light parts in the image have very
little detail
When I put the contrast on -2 or -3 exposuring is better but I have
hardly
any contrast. When I increase contrast in software the no detail in
lighter
parts comes back again.

I tried 2 wooks long all kind of settings but I cannot really get
it as I want.

It seems to me that there must be something wrong with my camera?

Who else has this problem ????

I'm sorry to have this problems with the D7 , my other camera's are
much
more reliable in getting well expose images

I bought the D7 because I wanted to be able to print A3 , the
sharpness is
ok but the rest is not !

Sorry Stephen ....................................

Marc
Click to expand...
 
The spot metering is the most precise measurement tool among others. But you have to know what you doing and where to put the 'liittle circle'. Other metering method is just kind of average and hope for the best type of tools. If you want to control exactly how the image comes out, spot metering is definitely the preferred tool. The famous zone system will only work with good spot meters (1 or 2 degree) and there is no other system can give the photographers more control and pre-visualization than that.

One word of caution using spot meters or spot metering mode. I have seen fellow photogrphers came back with completely wrong exposure pictures when they used the spot meters instead of their usual center weighted or matrix metering. They hav esimply put the 'little circle' at the wrong spot. Just like a very sharp knife, it can work very good for you or cause moe harm than good. One time one used the example of driving a high performance racing car vs a family sedan to compare spot metering and average metering. You got the idea.

With the D7, you have the EVF and the Spot metering, which both are excellent and precise tools. I myself havn't tried other metering modes (with D7 and my other cameras) and probably will not use them either. I find the EVF is the quickest and most reliable way to get the 'best' exposure (the best under the specific lighting condition). Good shooting.
Ken said:
I had been using multi-segment for exposure, and that seemed to be
where my biggest problems were. Once I changed to spot which is
what I use for focus also, things got much better. Even
center-weighted made a big difference.

People told me the exact same things about my QV 3000 pictures
compared to the D7.. The QV 3000 were much more alive. Changing
the exposure mode helped.

Now, I've saved the settings I use most often in either memory 1 or
2 and then night time settings in 3. Too bad a set of pictures
from Orland weren't exposed very well, but that's life.
Click to expand...
 
Marc,

Good to see you have a better feel of what the D7 can do. There is nothing worng with the metering/exposure of those images. The lighting siutation in couple of images are proabbly the best you can do, since they covers more than 10 stops, which are outside the D7 or even film exposure latitude. Next time may be you should have both cameras with you and shoot side by side and then compare the results again. Now, things are only going to get better with the D7. Good shooting.
marc said:
I did some shooting this morning with the camera set on Manual and
made my own settings by just looking at the EVF and trying to find the
correct exposure.
Results are a lot better now.
all of you thanks for your help !
take a look at : http://communities.msn.com/dimd7/photoalbums.msnw

marc
Click to expand...
 
Great thread. I am learning a lot of good tips. It is almost a master thesis in D7 photography! I am going to add a few tips of my own, though I feel like an apprentice below the masters, here.

1) Spot meter for your midtone or grey point. Your looking for the best contrast in your EVF on the part of the image that is your subject.

2) Figure out a good setting for the AF/AEL button. This is essential for recomposition when using Program, Shutter priority, and Aperature priority modes. You spot meter your midtone, press the AF/AEL button, then recompose. Half-pressing the shutter-release only saves the AF setting, which I found extremely annoying after having used a Nikon 950 for years. Even if you don't recompose, it's sometimes a good practise to use AF/AEL to prevent a camera jitter from changing your exposure before the camera captures the image.

3) Set the quick view to two seconds. Sometimes the most awful pictures pop-up, and then you know you have to try again! Tapping the shutter release cancels it ASAP if you need to keep shooting...

Regards,
RS Blum

Read an open letter to Minolta. DiMage 7 links, pictures, and tips at http://www.luiswatkins.com/homepages/dimage7/
Stephen Lau said:
One word of caution using spot meters or spot metering mode. I have
seen fellow photogrphers came back with completely wrong exposure
pictures when they used the spot meters instead of their usual
center weighted or matrix metering. They hav esimply put the
'little circle' at the wrong spot. Just like a very sharp knife, it
can work very good for you or cause moe harm than good. One time
one used the example of driving a high performance racing car vs a
family sedan to compare spot metering and average metering. You got
the idea.

With the D7, you have the EVF and the Spot metering, which both are
excellent and precise tools. I myself havn't tried other metering
modes (with D7 and my other cameras) and probably will not use them
either. I find the EVF is the quickest and most reliable way to get
the 'best' exposure (the best under the specific lighting
condition). Good shooting.
Ken said:
I had been using multi-segment for exposure, and that seemed to be
where my biggest problems were. Once I changed to spot which is
what I use for focus also, things got much better. Even
center-weighted made a big difference.

People told me the exact same things about my QV 3000 pictures
compared to the D7.. The QV 3000 were much more alive. Changing
the exposure mode helped.

Now, I've saved the settings I use most often in either memory 1 or
2 and then night time settings in 3. Too bad a set of pictures
from Orland weren't exposed very well, but that's life.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
http://communities.msn.com/dimd7/forrest.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7

I like this one (silhouttes of the horses). A crop with the horses in the upper right or left hand corner with the luminous green pasture would be a knock-out. Thank goodness you have 5.2 megapixels to work with.

Regards,
RS Blum

Read an open letter to Minolta. DiMage 7 links, pictures, and tips at http://www.luiswatkins.com/homepages/dimage7/
marc said:
I did some shooting this morning with the camera set on Manual and
made my own settings by just looking at the EVF and trying to find the
correct exposure.
Results are a lot better now.
all of you thanks for your help !
take a look at : http://communities.msn.com/dimd7/photoalbums.msnw

marc
Click to expand...
 
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