Cam Reviews by Magazines; which you trust?

John23gr

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Besides reviews by competent people in this and other forums, there are several magazines that publish reviews of digital cameras.
Which do you trust and why?
PC Magazine
PC World Magazine
Popular Photography
Other
Other
 
I don't trust any reviews. Too much conflict of interest (bad review = no more cameras for review). There is no substitute for using the camera (borrow, rent, or use at the store) yourself.
 
Not even the ones I find here. I use the reviews for a knowledgable review of features and how they might affect operation, and I read them for fun; but I don't make buing decisions based on them.

Instead, I rely on the "Chatter" we find on these forums and a couple other forums from people who actually own one. A positive review from 5 or 10 intelligent users carries more weight with me because we are getting reviews of 5 -10 different camera samples not just one sample "cherry picked" by the manufacturer to send to the reviewer.

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Stop the Insanity!
Diet and Exercise Kills!
 
Not even the ones I find here. I use the reviews for a
knowledgable review of features and how they might affect
operation, and I read them for fun; but I don't make buing
decisions based on them.

Instead, I rely on the "Chatter" we find on these forums and a
couple other forums from people who actually own one. A positive
review from 5 or 10 intelligent users carries more weight with me
because we are getting reviews of 5 -10 different camera samples
not just one sample "cherry picked" by the manufacturer to send to
the reviewer.

--
Stop the Insanity!
Diet and Exercise Kills!
Thanks glen, you make it all worthwhile
S
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Simon Joinson, dpreview.com
 
Thanks glen, you make it all worthwhile
S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com
That wasn't meant as any sort of an insult to anyone or any organization. DPR has nothing to be ashamed of. Its just that no matter how thorough or professional a given review is; it is still based on a single sample. And if the manufacturer is smart, they go over it VERY carefull before it gets sent to the reviewer.

In my opininon, a good professional camera review should measure the specs - resolution, exposure accuracy, etc, individuals just don't have the ability to do so with consistency. But a professional reviewers most important service is to consider under what conditions the camera in question will best serve the photographer and in which it will least serve.

A single sample, which I understand that is often used sequentially by several reviewers in different organizations, simply can not tell us how the mass produced versions will vary from the reviewed sample. This is where "chatter" from real users is invaluable. And let's face it, the most knowledgable chatter comes from DPR.
--
Stop the Insanity!
Diet and Exercise Kills!
 
I wouldn't buy a computer that they would recommend..what could they know about cameras?
 
Besides reviews by competent people in this and other forums, there
are several magazines that publish reviews of digital cameras.
Which do you trust and why?
PC Magazine
PC World Magazine
Popular Photography
Other
Other
--

Personally, I like to hear from USERS. Not individuals who have agenda's, like reviewers, publishers, manufacturers, editors.

Lets be honest. Publishers, editors, reviewers, and manufacturers ALL have an agenda, whether it be to SELL the books, products and individual camera's, but USERS will always give the best feedback.

So, the first key is to know what you will be using your camera for, and then find others in the field that use their cameras and equipment for the same things. Those are the ones you will get true feedback from. The rest are just giving opinions, of which some are educated opinions and others are not.

Debbie
 
Personally, I like to hear from USERS. Not individuals who have
agenda's, like reviewers, publishers, manufacturers, editors.

Lets be honest. Publishers, editors, reviewers, and manufacturers
ALL have an agenda, whether it be to SELL the books, products and
individual camera's, but USERS will always give the best feedback.
Debbie
Ever heard of post-purchase justification? No one is free from 'agenda' - certainly not those who defend their cameras like they were their own children, and who take criticism of certain camera brands personally.

We are 'policed' by the most active camera forums in the world, and that's reason enough to make sure the only agenda we have is getting the reviews right.
S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com
 
Personally, I like to hear from USERS. Not individuals who have
agenda's, like reviewers, publishers, manufacturers, editors.

Lets be honest. Publishers, editors, reviewers, and manufacturers
ALL have an agenda, whether it be to SELL the books, products and
individual camera's, but USERS will always give the best feedback.
Debbie
Ever heard of post-purchase justification? No one is free from
'agenda' - certainly not those who defend their cameras like they
were their own children, and who take criticism of certain camera
brands personally.

We are 'policed' by the most active camera forums in the world, and
that's reason enough to make sure the only agenda we have is
getting the reviews right.
S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com
--
Simon,

Sure I have, and I understand that completely. I am not attempting to confuse the issue of independent reviews with actual users. They definately both serve their purpose.

My point is this. One of the best sources of knowledge is the actual user. I have for years consulted in service repair technicians to determine the best quality of merchandise, and I have since determined that source of information is basically flawed also, by "agenda". Why, because service technicians don't want you buying the equipment that does not need repair, they would obviously go out of business. If you want the true knowledge, you must go to the SATIFSFIED consumer to do your research.

Independant reviews are designed as a whole to give the consumer an EDUCATED observation, but those reviews are based solely on the assumption that the user is as knowledgable as the reviewer and thus not perfect in the hands of a non professional user, as I am sure you would agree.

How many times have you seen where DSLR units are basically worthless in the hands of someone who has limited knowledge of photography, and has absolutely no clue as to what aperture priority is, much less shutter priority, or even what the different modes mean.

So, my point is to not disagree with Independant reviews, but lets be realistic, some consumers will always believe that your site here is based on advertising dollars into your pockets. Not saying that is true in any capacity, but you must admit the agenda is still revenue or your site fails.

It also fails if your members here quit participating, thus the reasons you police the forums. That is the agenda. You need members who are satisfied and happy to be here, right? That is where your advertisers want to be. You have a LARGE market base based upon your numbers of members. The manufacturers know this, as do you, therefore their agenda is to get into the member base, because all you have to do is look at the shear numbers of HITS DPReview receives on a daily basis. Manufacturers jump at the chance to advertise here I am sure, but would they if your member base all of the sudden disaappeared? I suspect not.

The easiest way to reflect what I am saying is this. Your reviews are extremely helpful to the consumer, and the manufacturer in the purchase process, as is a stock brokers knowledge to investors. But to live like a millionaire, you must learn from a millionaire. AGREE?

Debbie
 
--
Simon,

I also just thought of another example I am talking about that perhaps you could answer.

Yours and Phil reviews are concluded with "Recommended" or "Highly Recommended". Correct?

As a consumer, if I see three cameras that I have reviewed from your sight, how do I determine which is best? What if I ask your or Phil a direct question of, "what camera do each of you use?. Are you willing to answer that in front of your advertisers? I may be wrong, but I suspect not, and the reason is that agenda I am talking about.

"Recommended" appears to be inferior to "Highly Recommended". But why not go a step further in your ratings. Other sights give numbers to their ratings. I understand you must be careful so as not to offend a certan manufacturer, but when you have 10-20 cameras all rated as "Highly recommended" we as consumers know exactly what you are doing. You are not taking sides because of that agenda in keeping those manufacturers off your back.

Not to say it is WRONG, because I totally understand, TOTALLY. But if I am truely wanting to make a purchase, I want the direct knowledge of knowing what the EXPERTS use. Both of you included.

Debbie
 
--Honestly, aside from a handful of cheap, bottom of the barrel "no name" manufacturers, how many digital cameras today are completely useless

or that would even merit a "not recommended?" The only way a camera could achieve this is if it cost the same as a camera that came highly recommended and was sufficiently inferior to merit the unrecommended

rating. Look at the reviews of all the cameras. Are any (according to the tests done) in that category? Most cameras in a given class differ very little from each other.
-Rich
 
Some mags. do give a score in their reviews.

Unfortunately, standards change. I'm a Minolta A2 user - best of class (in my opinion) when released, but how would you give a comparative score for (say) a Fuji 9000/9500 now that is valid against the two-year-old A2 review?

I find the dpreview comments very useful - and especially the photo samples. Full sized similar pics so you can judge sharpness/noise etc.

There's one mag. here in the UK that's not afraid to analyze results - that's the venerable Amateur Photographer. I'm not saying the others are not accurate - but they're mainly one person's opinion and the samples they print are usually too small for comparison.

Of course, ALL reviews are inherently subjective - as are we all. For a P&S for my daughter, we selected a small Fuji with no controls - she doesn't want or need them. For myself, as a P&S, I bought a Canon A85 at a very good price as it's features suit me. Neither is really "better" - they're different.

And long may it last - it gives us all a choice, and a chance of selecting the camera that suits us and our needs.
 
What's missing here is the distinction between trust and usefulness. The reviews are usefull, but would I trust them enough to make a buying decision solely on the basis of a review? NO!
--
Stop the Insanity!
Diet and Exercise Kills!
 
How's this? Trust NO magazine. I spent the past 7+ years in the motojournalist field and still work as a freelance writer/photographer for a few motorcycle titles. Most of the magazines I worked at would never mention any of the numerous negative aspects of any particular bike and I often got into arguments with my editor and group publisher about how dishonest the titles were being by showing every item a paying advertiser produced in a glowing light. Hell, we even had one bike catch on fire, nearly burn to the ground before the CHP put it out with the extinguisher in his cop car, but by the time the wonderful review hit the newstands, I would have bought the damn bike myself. Even small and insignificant problems were glossed over and never mentioned, in fear of losing advertiser dollars. Even worse, these supposed experts (in ANY field, be it photography, motor vehicles, electronics, of which my old company had literally hundreds of titles on) usually started out as very green new journalism grads with very little grasp of the subject matter they were supposed to be the experts on. You're much better off doing your own research, or actually contacting people with experience in the item you wish to purchase. DpReview is a very good place to find real, "unbiased" advice. Much better than ANY magazine. Bottom line, magazine and advertisers have ruined the journalism industry and can't be trusted.

Take care,
J
 
--
Simon,

I also just thought of another example I am talking about that
perhaps you could answer.

Yours and Phil reviews are concluded with "Recommended" or "Highly
Recommended". Correct?

As a consumer, if I see three cameras that I have reviewed from
your sight, how do I determine which is best? What if I ask your
or Phil a direct question of, "what camera do each of you use?.
Are you willing to answer that in front of your advertisers? I may
be wrong, but I suspect not, and the reason is that agenda I am
talking about.
We don't use any one camera, we spend pretty much 100% of our time on dpreview, so we shoot with whatever camera we're testing at the time - even for pictures not directly related to the review. That's the advantage of doing this - you get very familiar with all the various systems, and you always have the latest stuff to use.

I can't talk for Phil, but I haven't bought a camera for myself in years. I've got two SLRs - a Fuji S2 (for all my old Nikon lenses) and a Canon D60 (for our product shots), but I spend most of my time shooting with compact cameras

S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com
 
Personally, I like to hear from USERS. Not individuals who have
agenda's, like reviewers, publishers, manufacturers, editors.

Lets be honest. Publishers, editors, reviewers, and manufacturers
ALL have an agenda, whether it be to SELL the books, products and
individual camera's, but USERS will always give the best feedback.
Debbie
Ever heard of post-purchase justification? No one is free from
'agenda' - certainly not those who defend their cameras like they
were their own children, and who take criticism of certain camera
brands personally.

We are 'policed' by the most active camera forums in the world, and
that's reason enough to make sure the only agenda we have is
getting the reviews right.
S
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com
As a tool reviewer for magazines, I also get a kick out of the criticisms of the reviews, and the concept that a dozen users can tell more than a single reviewer. For one thing, I've spent a long time learning to use and test the tools I review. For another, I very much doubt many manufacturers cherry pick or send prime gear--making sure it is prime would require tests similar to those I do, and most aren't willing to take the time. Too, the crates and boxes I get are usually factory sealed.

Then you come to the dozen "testers" with a dozen different cameras. Out of that dozen, quite possibly half will be inept with ANY camera, and will post notes talking about how bad the camera is because they can't operate all its features immediately--or at all. As Henry Posner at B&H says, they get returns from customers of cameras that are sent back as defective, but turn out to be perfect. The buyer is defective, not the camera (that's me, not Henry saying that). You've got a dozen reviewers, none of whom you know, some of whom may be qualified to review, and some not. How do you determine the difference?

User feedback should be one factor in a buying decision, IMO, but a relatively small one unless you have some knowledge of the user's qualfications to comment on the gear in question.
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
If I wanted a dozen differet reviews, I would just read a dozen different magazines or web sites. I was talking about the value of the chatter found in forums like this one.

That chatter is just as valuable, probably more so than formal reviews. It tells us about long term reliablitly, it tells us about usability, it tells us about the quality of after sale support.

Yes the chatter will include comments from idiots. But they are almost always easily identified since an idiot is incapable of presenting a consistent and coherent argument over time. And equally over time, their voices become weaker as a consensus develops.

And your example of fully functional cameras being returned as defective, might indicate several hundred idiot users, but might it not equally indicate a basic usability design flaw so serious that the users gave up in disgust?

--
Stop the Insanity!
Diet and Exercise Kills!
 

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