Food photography - suitable digi camera???

I shoot a fair bit of food photography, mainly with available light.

Is there anyone else out there who does so and can recommend a camera suitable for the purpose.
I can't afford D2X, EOS1D, 5D by the way.

My work is reproduced in magazines, up to A4 or slightly larger at 300 dpi
On film I use mainly Minolta Dynax 9000s, usually shooting focal lengths 50-85.

I have an Olympus 8080 which I use as for travel work and love but with this camera's small sensor it's difficult to get minimal depth of field necessary at times.

I had a look at the Minolta 7d, quite liked it but there seem doubts about build qual. Loved the feel of the Olympus E1 but is 5-6 mpx enough, bearing in mind I often end up cropping?
Help appreciated.

bluevalentine said:

Is 5-6 mpx enough, bearing in mind I often end up cropping?

Click to expand...

I cant recommend you a good camera for your needs (not that knowledgable about other makes), but I can give you answer to the megapixel question.

If you'll be printing A4 (29.7cm x 21cm) at 300dpi, that file size is 3508x2480 pixels. By comparison, my 6.1mp Pentax *ist DS shoots a 3008x2008 picture. Although you can interpolate and upsize pictures, my recommendation is to go with a camera with a few more megapixels.

Thanks for that - the sort of info I need. On the travel front I once got published a near A3 from a 3.3 mpx interpolated to 6 Fuji but I reckon I just got lucky - lighting right, able to use 100% of the frame and landscape requirements rather less finicky than food, maybe.

I think it's narrowing down to EOS 20d or Nikon D200 (expensive) unless I take a punt on the new Sony R1

You need as many mpix as you can afford...food has been a 4x5 film domain for a good part...that's what you compete against (sorta)...so if you want to take a significative step into the future, the latest Nikon, at least on paper, is all you'll ever need for the next few years, and the first step toward a Nikon addiction!!. I have the D2X, and although it was quite expensive, buying it has been one of the good moves of recent years, same goes when I bought a rather expensive motorbike( for my budget), an over-budget (even slightly used ! ) car: it hurts at first, looking at your empty wallet, but you're soon to be rewarded with a tool that will amaze you. Gotta to spend money to make money.
Good luck in your decosion..

--
Jean Bernier

All photographs are only more or less credible illusions

It depends, is the answer.

Are we talking Gourmet and Conde Nast Traveller, or are we further down the list?

If you've been using a 35mm film camera in the past, and clients have been happy, and if you are going to light your subjects decently, and low-end digital single lens reflex camera bought new today will be fine.

If budget is tight, Nikon D50 or a Canon 350D / Rebel XT.

Your pictures are not published in a magzine at 300 ppi, nor are they published at 300 dpi; they are published at some lpi / lines per inch setting.

And if the lpi is 150 or less, you don't need a 300 ppi original image, but at least 225 is nice.

That said, you can resize easily in your computer, or your client can resize easily in its computer. If all you are doing is going from, say, 250 ppi to 300, no one will ever see the difference on the printed page.

Changing to Imperial since ppi, dpi and lpi all involve inches....

If your original image, cropped, is about 8.5 x 11, and you need a 250 ppi original... a six megapixel camera would be fine. And the reality is, there are lots of full page photos published from 6 MP cameras every day in good quality magazines.

Following the braces and belt theory, more megapixels are better, so any 8 MP camera -- The Canon 350D and the Canon 20D, or the Canon 1D, which is very significant ovrkill -- would be even better.

We use a 20D and a Rebel XT (North American version of the 350D) for high quality magazine reproduction.

Lens choice is budget dependent, and camera dependent.

And what-ever-else-you-shoot dependent.

If I was going out to shoot informal food shots with a digital camera, I'd cart along our four lenses.

the 18-55mm kit lens, to get lots of a restaurant kitchen into the shot, or a closeup of a plate, wioth lots fo the restaurant in the background. In 35mm film terms, this is pretty much what you'd get with a 28mm lens on your Minolta.

For beauty shots of a place setting's worh of space, the 50mm f1.8 is a greeat choice. It's like shooting with an 80mm lens, so perspective is good, you are back far enough that plates look round instead of oval, and it is a fast lens, allowing you to work at wide apertures if you want to isolate the bakground. Plus it is cheap and light and non-obtrusive, depending on how much you want to be noticed.

The Canon 24-70 costs a fortune and is big and obvious, but is an f2.8 lens, for lots of depth control, really sharp, easy to focus, and covers what you'd get on your film camera with 35 to 105 lenses.

And we've got a 24-135 Sigma; this, on a tripod, shooting across a dining room, lets you pick out plates on the warming counter, chefs through the door way, etc. If I had the money, I'd use a 70-200mm f2.8 lens, from ewither Sigma or Canon, instead, but this lens was in the store, used, bargain priced, and I bought it.

Yes, "real" food phgotographers use 4x5, but you and I both seem to have managed without this format. And you'll be fine with a 6MP Nikon or a 8MP Canon.

Add the battery pack to the Canon 20D, and hang on a 24-70 lens with the lens hood, and people will know you are a pro; this has its good and bad points.

BAK

Just for info I have recently completed a job for a very fussy art director - the job was 20 dishes of food on different backgrounds on location in the restaurant.

I shot them all on the E-1 with a 50mm F2 pretty much wide open all the way in available light.

The images have been accepted and used at up to A3.

I thought they looked fine. IMHO the lighting is much more important than MP.

However there would be better cameras to shoot on - perhaps a medium format digital. In actual fact I had a Hasslebald and Phase one back with me on that very shoot but I found it very slow to use by comparison to the E-1 so it satyed in its very large case for the food photography section of the shoot.

Yes I know I should have used it and its just I am inexperienced but...

if you really want to see the pics let me know and I'll dig them out of the DVD archive and post them

If you do food and can't afford a 5D what do you charge? I'm lost.

You need to charge decently so you can at least afford equipment! Even as a week end photographer if that's what you are you should make enouth profit or you are litterally giving free time and paying for equipment someone else greatly profit from. Sorry for my realistic opinion, but that's what I read from your post.

bluevalentine said:

I shoot a fair bit of food photography, mainly with available light.
Is there anyone else out there who does so and can recommend a
camera suitable for the purpose.
I can't afford D2X, EOS1D, 5D by the way.

My work is reproduced in magazines, up to A4 or slightly larger at
300 dpi
On film I use mainly Minolta Dynax 9000s, usually shooting focal
lengths 50-85.
I have an Olympus 8080 which I use as for travel work and love but
with this camera's small sensor it's difficult to get minimal depth
of field necessary at times.
I had a look at the Minolta 7d, quite liked it but there seem
doubts about build qual. Loved the feel of the Olympus E1 but is
5-6 mpx enough, bearing in mind I often end up cropping?
Help appreciated.

Click to expand...

BAK said:

Are we talking Gourmet and Conde Nast Traveller, or are we further
down the list?

Click to expand...

We are talking dedicated food mag as per 'Gourmet'. I actually edit the thing so I'm more of a wordsmith journo than a photographer, although I'v been taking (and flogging) my own photographs for years to support my food and wine orientated travel writing. I also do some pack shots and the occasional food shoot for the mag and want to a0 go digitalk and b) up the quality

Brilliant post, by the way, most helpful and thanks a million.

benoit said:

If you do food and can't afford a 5D what do you charge? I'm lost.
You need to charge decently so you can at least afford equipment!
Even as a week end photographer if that's what you are you should
make enouth profit or you are litterally giving free time and
paying for equipment someone else greatly profit from. Sorry for my
realistic opinion, but that's what I read from your post.

Click to expand...

Fair point. As I explained in an earlier post, I'm more of a wordsmith who supports his work with photography.

A few yers ago I tooled up pretty well for film with 2 x Minolta 9000's, motor drives, battery of lenses, a Bronica TRS, 2 pro tripods and a couple of big Metz guns, I don't mind spending money - it's just at this moment I can't afford the outlay

It's not a matter of what I charge - it's a matter of summoning up five grand+ euro at this moment in time - when I've just forked out a king's ransom to stop our ancient house falling down, paid the marina fees on my boat, spend two grand keeping my old Land Rover on the road for another year and replaced the specs my grandson broke etc etc - a familiar tale to many I'm sure.

Soon as I am in funds the D4x, or whatever it will be by then, beckons but for the moment I must seek out serviceable cheaper gear.

I have a better picture of the situation. Your photography sounds more like on location type of work that happen to be oriented toward food. Gourmet and budget clash. I see something wrong here.

My business is my income and my leisure depends on that income. I'd sale the Rover while it's working and get something more repair freindly cost wise and sell the boad and drop the marina expense. You can always go back later. I just don't think that budget and Gourmet work together and I'd put my business before all or get a regular job.
Don't mean to be rude. Sorry if I sound like it

bluevalentine said:

benoit said:

If you do food and can't afford a 5D what do you charge? I'm lost.
You need to charge decently so you can at least afford equipment!
Even as a week end photographer if that's what you are you should
make enouth profit or you are litterally giving free time and
paying for equipment someone else greatly profit from. Sorry for my
realistic opinion, but that's what I read from your post.

Click to expand...

Fair point. As I explained in an earlier post, I'm more of a
wordsmith who supports his work with photography.
A few yers ago I tooled up pretty well for film with 2 x Minolta
9000's, motor drives, battery of lenses, a Bronica TRS, 2 pro
tripods and a couple of big Metz guns, I don't mind spending money

• it's just at this moment I can't afford the outlay

It's not a matter of what I charge - it's a matter of summoning up
five grand+ euro at this moment in time - when I've just forked out
a king's ransom to stop our ancient house falling down, paid the
marina fees on my boat, spend two grand keeping my old Land Rover
on the road for another year and replaced the specs my grandson
broke etc etc - a familiar tale to many I'm sure.
Soon as I am in funds the D4x, or whatever it will be by then,
beckons but for the moment I must seek out serviceable cheaper gear.

Click to expand...

If your magazine is always printed by the same company, why not do some experiments?

It can get really complicted with things like going from digital file to printing press and skipping separations; etc., etc.

BAK

benoit said:

Don't mean to be rude. Sorry if I sound like it

Click to expand...

No offence taken. You are not being rude.

Incidentally, the Land Rover, which I 've had for 15 years, doesn't owe me anything. I did a cost comparison with running a newish medium sized saloon and changing it every 3-4 years. I'm still well ahead. Anyhow if I sold it I'd only get buttons for it so I might as well keep it another year or two.

I suppose the difference between us is that my income from work is probably 75% writing/25% photography. Close up shots of styled plates of food represent only about 10% of total income. Therefore it would take me a long time to get my money back if I invested big bucks.

I realise now I should have have phrased my original question differently - try this:
I want to

a) Improve the quality (both technical and aesthetic) of the food photographs I take

b) Make life as easy as possible by using equipment that is convenient and suits the subject - BAK's advice on lenses was most helpful

c) Do it digitally - filmwise I just about get by with a Minolta 9000, a 50/1.4, an 85/1.8 and occasionally a 28-85. Oh and an old-but-good incident light meter. I get slides that I can squeeze out to 10 x 8 on the printed page provided I frame carefully. I want digi kit that will give me the same or better chances of success

I don't want to sell the boat or re-mortgage the house and buy a 'Blad with a digi back or a D2X with shedloads of expensive glass. But I'm willing to invest around 2500 euro to help achieve the above objectives. So what should I buy?

I shoot most of the food photography for our magazine [when we need it], always using available light [shoots go quicker, less hassle on the kitchen/mgr]. My equipment is humble but if you know your lighting and equipment/post prod, you don't need super-high-end stuff for great results.

My Best Tip: Pick a table near windows [w/out direct sunlight], turn OFF all overhead/strong ambient light [bad color cast], shoot from window-side towards the food]. Or if there's a covered patio area with good diffuse light/shade, have them "set up" a table out there. Oh, and shoot RAW

My equipment: D70 + 50mm lens [A-Priority, shoot each composition from F2--> F11 in 2-3 stop increments].

I'm an art director by trade, photographer by passion...and most of what I've learned has been "by doing". I welcome and comments/constructive criticism - especially since I've only shot food in the last year or so and never really read up on it...

Here's a few photos from recent shoots with this setup:

Canon D60, not too big money today, and perfect for food photography, check my food images.
http://www.pbase.com/photoshutter/food

if the cost is a oncern and looking for a good camera that is capable of a4 size printing and even more then i will suggest oly E500 with 2 kit lens @ $799 or body only @ $699 with 50/f2 micro lens $450 and you will have excellent camera

it is 8mp camera with lot of contorls and options, the white balance and colors are excellent.
--
http://www.pbase.com/shg2

Look for a used Kodak SLR/c (canon mount) or SLR/n or 14nx (Nikon mount), and also buy Silkypix raw decoding software to decde itsw DCR raw files, and you have a 14mp camera vey well suited to food photography at a bargain price.
--
Quentin
http://www.brightnewlight.co.uk
http://www.barleigh.com
---
'Trust me. I'm a lawyer'

TimFeak said:

Just for info I have recently completed a job for a very fussy art
director - the job was 20 dishes of food on different backgrounds
on location in the restaurant.

I shot them all on the E-1 with a 50mm F2 pretty much wide open all
the way in available light.

The images have been accepted and used at up to A3.

Click to expand...

I have also used my E1 for food-shoots quite a bit, mostly for a specific glossy magazine I work for that has 24x34cm pages, well over A4 size. Many images have been used full-page and they look fine. In the last issue I have 6 full-page images of food.

I have only a few samples on line but here is one:



This was made with available light by the way. (as a test at the time, the "real" shot was made with strobe lighting.) The 14-54mm lens is very suitable for food as it focuses very close also. I also use the 50-200 a lot for food.

TimFeak said:

I thought they looked fine. IMHO the lighting is much more
important than MP.

Click to expand...

I fully agree on this. I would suggest you buy a modest camera and few studio-flashes, instead of a very expensive camerabody.

Lourens

Get the best that you can possibly afford and then,
spend your time learning to light. The camera is
only a capture device that anyone can learn to use.
Not enough emphasis is placed on lighting these days.
Lighting is everything in photography, controlling it
is what separates a professionals from a hacker.

Just my $.02
Cheers,
Robin

Lovely pics.
Very clean and modern, sort of thing I'm aiming at. Fingers xxxd. Thanks

And get a good food dresser...

--
Quentin
http://www.brightnewlight.co.uk
http://www.barleigh.com
---
'Trust me. I'm a lawyer'