F707 - Be Honest

I think Eva hit the nail on the proverible head. All the pictuers
that I have
seen so far from new adopters of the 707 are a real let down.
why can't people be honest with themselves and express what they feel
and see. the pictures really are not such a marked impovement over
any other cybershot camera.
Having had the F707 for a week now, most of which has been either raining, had me snowed with work, or under the weather with a cold I can't shake, I finally dragged the thing out today.

Previously, I had accidentally discovered (trying to find hyperfocal distances) that the S85 really loses resolution at f-stops wider than f/8.0. The other day, I tried the same test, and found that the F707 provides the same resolution (at least) from f/4.0 to f/8.0.

Today, I shot a few buildings and random things that caught my eye, and compared to a similar jaunt with the S85, the F707 seems substantially sharper. It just seems to be catching more detail more of the time than the S85 was. (The pictures are too boring for words. Sigh.)
Can some 707 owners honestly tell me that the 707 is a marked
improvemnet on image quality over previous cybershot cameras ie,
p1, s75,

it maybe 5 megapixel but do the pcitures reflect the extra 2mega
pixle quality over 3.3 mega pixel cameras ?
It looks to me as though it's a major improvement over the S85, not just on Phil's resolution test, but in real pictures in the real world as well.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
No cappuccino ?!?

Emanuele
Face it everybody, lets be honest. Sony really blew it big time
when it rushed the F707 to market before inventing, perfecting, and
implementing an "Artistic Quality" selection in the Set Up menu.
As I see it, the "Artistic Quality" selection would allow the
camera owner to select between "Snapshot" and "Art" mode.
In "Snapshot" mode, the camera would allow the owner to take a
picture of whatever the camera happened to be pointing at when the
shutter was released. However, the camera would save the image
using a copy/share protection scheme that would prevent the pic
from being seen by anybody other than close family and friends.
(You know, only by those people who actually get impressed by
snapshots, or at least say they are impressed.)
Obviously, in "Art" mode, the copy/share protection scheme would be
disabled, so that the pic could be seend by and shared with
anybody. The camera, however, would only take the picture if the
composition, lighting, DOF, subject, etc, would qualify the pic has
"art" in the eyes of the priviliged cognoscenti.
Conclusion, the F707 is seriously defective, as it lacks "Artistic
Quality" feature.
 
Yes it is, if you add the cost of good lenses - and what is the
best SLR camera worth, without (a) good lens(es)?...
Ah, you're right -- I just looked at the cost of the Canon EOS D30
at http://www.cameraworld.com . It is $3000.00 there
(with list price of $3500), not including a lens.

And, the Canon lenses I see are slower than I would have expected.
The Canon 28-105mm F/3.5-4.5 lens costs $300.
I wonder what lens for the D30 gives an "equivalent"
zoom range as the lens that comes with the Sony F707. Anyone know?
Still, having the capability of changing lenses is great -- really nice.
I hope that companies figure out how to provide this capability
with little risk of damage by dust and dirt when changing lense.
We need a clever solution.
 
Yes it is, if you add the cost of good lenses - and what is the
best SLR camera worth, without (a) good lens(es)?...
Ah, you're right -- I just looked at the cost of the Canon EOS D30
at http://www.cameraworld.com . It is $3000.00 there
(with list price of $3500), not including a lens.
List price is not $3,500, if it was, nobody is charging close to that anyaway.

D30 from a reputable dealer $2,119

http://www.beachcamera.com/product_query.asp?query=product&i=CNEOSD30
And, the Canon lenses I see are slower than I would have expected.
The Canon 28-105mm F/3.5-4.5 lens costs $300.
I wonder what lens for the D30 gives an "equivalent"
zoom range as the lens that comes with the Sony F707. Anyone know?
Still, having the capability of changing lenses is great -- really
nice.
A good 24-200mm lens (38.4 - 320mm on D30) $286

Although max aperture is f/3.5, the D30 performs much better than the F707 at higher ISOs.

http://www.ttec.com/scripts/start.exe/deltainternational/cart/init.htm?start=TOKINA&keyword=TOKINA

(see a reviews of the lens at http://www.photographyreview.com/35mm+Zoom/Tokina+AT-X+242+AF+24-200mm+f-3.5-5.6/PRD_85225_3128crx.aspx )

Add about $50 for a set of Hoya close up lenses for close-up photography

http://www.2filter.com/

Total cost for a very nice D30 and lens is 2458. Don't forget how much cheaper compact flash is than Memeory Sticks, and you also get a free battery and a 1gig microdrive. Total price is about double the F707 when accessories are included.

Still, it's too expensive for me :(
 
Funny how this guy dropped in long enough to make everyone mad and now he's awol.

Todd
Thanks
I think Eva hit the nail on the proverible head. All the pictuers
that I have
seen so far from new adopters of the 707 are a real let down.
why can't people be honest with themselves and express what they feel
and see. the pictures really are not such a marked impovement over
any other cybershot camera.

I have a s75 and had high hopes for the 707 however here in the UK
I am going to have to pay around £900 - 1000 pounds for the privalge.

Can some 707 owners honestly tell me that the 707 is a marked
improvemnet on image quality over previous cybershot cameras ie,
p1, s75,

it maybe 5 megapixel but do the pcitures reflect the extra 2mega
pixle
quality over 3.3 mega pixel cameras ?
 
He is no longer welcome in the forum. We won't be hearing from him for a while.

-Ed
Todd
Thanks
I think Eva hit the nail on the proverible head. All the pictuers
that I have
seen so far from new adopters of the 707 are a real let down.
why can't people be honest with themselves and express what they feel
and see. the pictures really are not such a marked impovement over
any other cybershot camera.

I have a s75 and had high hopes for the 707 however here in the UK
I am going to have to pay around £900 - 1000 pounds for the privalge.

Can some 707 owners honestly tell me that the 707 is a marked
improvemnet on image quality over previous cybershot cameras ie,
p1, s75,

it maybe 5 megapixel but do the pcitures reflect the extra 2mega
pixle
quality over 3.3 mega pixel cameras ?
 
Ah, yes. You have hit upon another deficiency: The F707 cannot make cappuccino! Mamma mia, it is usless! :)

-Ed
Emanuele
Face it everybody, lets be honest. Sony really blew it big time
when it rushed the F707 to market before inventing, perfecting, and
implementing an "Artistic Quality" selection in the Set Up menu.
As I see it, the "Artistic Quality" selection would allow the
camera owner to select between "Snapshot" and "Art" mode.
In "Snapshot" mode, the camera would allow the owner to take a
picture of whatever the camera happened to be pointing at when the
shutter was released. However, the camera would save the image
using a copy/share protection scheme that would prevent the pic
from being seen by anybody other than close family and friends.
(You know, only by those people who actually get impressed by
snapshots, or at least say they are impressed.)
Obviously, in "Art" mode, the copy/share protection scheme would be
disabled, so that the pic could be seend by and shared with
anybody. The camera, however, would only take the picture if the
composition, lighting, DOF, subject, etc, would qualify the pic has
"art" in the eyes of the priviliged cognoscenti.
Conclusion, the F707 is seriously defective, as it lacks "Artistic
Quality" feature.
 
Wow, I just had to make a comment after all of the messages in this forum. There was some heated debate in some areas, but, I think the main issue here was people siding with upgrading to the 707 vs. not upgrading.

A couple of issues I found unresolved were the very first things that were asked. Is image quality better? Well, that needs to be given due response, and I think it is still too early to get a good consensus on whether it is or not because people have not had enough time to properly use the features of their camera to get the best results for the photo they're taking. However, it is really important to define what quality means. As I see it, there are basically 2 versions that are specific to the dialogue here: 1) quality of pics on the computer 2) quality of pics in print.

For the first version of quality I would venture to say that we don't have the proper tools to determine that justly. If we had a monitor that provided 6000 x 4000 resolution and we were able to post 2 pictures of the same content using comparitive cameras under equal conditions to see which produces a better picture side-by-side on the screen, then you could make a good comparison. Why? Because the pictures' details would be viewable on screen where software and other compression utilities were not able to modify the pictures. In other words, for our regular screens the pictures that we see have less to do with the camera and more to do with the mathematical algorithm used to compress the image. Even if that were completely controlled by the camera, you would still need to reduce each picture by an equivalent percentage of detail to make any credible comparison.

For the second version of the test you would need to use a printer that is capable of printing the full size of the largest image (in MegaPixels) to see benefits (i.e. comparing a 3MP and 5MP camera on print is not useful at 5x7" because the whole point of the test is to see if the extra 2MP improves the image or not). As inkjet printers go, if both are properly color-calibrated and the comparison were to ensue you could make the printout. Inkjets range between 240 to 330 dpi TRUE resolution (i.e. the actual number of dots they print is far higher, but, that is because these dots are combined to create one pixel which is the TRUE resolution). So, say for simplicity that the 5MP camera has a 2500 x 2000 pixel capture and the 3MP camera has a 2000 x 1500 pixel capture. Than the print size if the printer has a true dpi of 250, would need to print at 10" x 8" (2500/250 x 2000/250). Printing the image from both the 5MP and the 3MP at this size would give you a better idea of whether the 5MP camera gives you a better quality image or not.

The point in stating this type of test is to isolate one aspect of the camera's feature base to compare it with another camera. If you randomly compare users picture's to each other not knowing anything about the person's experience, the environment conditions, the camera's settings, etc. than you have an unreliable test. No statistician would make a test like that and present his/her findings based on that kind of randomness and faulty criteria.

So, if somebody doesn't like a camera, they can't base that on the pictures posted on the web and in this forum and be just to themselves. The great thing about how the DPreviewers make reviews is that they do a good job of isolating factors in each camera and examining them. It is credible, statistically sound for the most part, and appeals to logic -- which in turn, gives us a much better understanding of what to expect as a ceiling for our capabilities no matter what experience we have had before.
I think Eva hit the nail on the proverible head. All the pictuers
that I have
seen so far from new adopters of the 707 are a real let down.
why can't people be honest with themselves and express what they feel
and see. the pictures really are not such a marked impovement over
any other cybershot camera.

I have a s75 and had high hopes for the 707 however here in the UK
I am going to have to pay around £900 - 1000 pounds for the privalge.

Can some 707 owners honestly tell me that the 707 is a marked
improvemnet on image quality over previous cybershot cameras ie,
p1, s75,

it maybe 5 megapixel but do the pcitures reflect the extra 2mega
pixle
quality over 3.3 mega pixel cameras ?
 

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