Phil Askey : Please "unban" Iliah Borg & Peter Dove

I called it a * waste * of digital space because Phil has already commented on threads of this nature (in the * rules * section), so the amount of time and energy you put into this thread is * probably * wasted. I wasn't commenting on the content of the thread. I've been a member for 1.5 yrs, I forgot my other password... it's around here somewhere... it was just easier to create another name. (StevenEJ... June 4th 2004)

Maybe if all those banned and the supporters of those banned got together and created your own forum, you could * compete * with Phil?

--
Jeff

Phil,

It would be really nice to have Iliah and Peter back on DPreview...

Thanks!

Bob

Phill's greatest asset is the huge database and history still available of all the posts and the ease of finding what you want.

Now ask yourself, "Is all the blather about booze, babes and broads worth archiving?" This particualr forum has been taken over by a bunch of loose lipped, low class, bar talk guys who are not promoting the art of photography.

I think this forum is no longer worthy of the masters. A perfect forum to me would be a good mix of Iliah, Peter, Hogan, Margulis, SamJStern, David Chinn, Goh, TOF, Fotogenetic and Jerremy all dealing with multi sided issues such as monitor and printer calibration, noise and moire control, DNG, LAB, gamut and all the things that can make great photographs and art.

I hang out much less here than at RML beta and the retouch forum. This used to be my favorite place to go and is still on my Mozilla tab. I have not made a notable contribution to this forum in a long time.

Did anyone think to ask Peter and Iliah if they wanted to come back? Maybe they are still banned, because of their own decision.

Maybe a diplomat will rise up out of this bunch and bring them back. (Ask and you shall receive.)

My personal reflectance is that I would rather have them to myself than subject them to the unworthy.

--
TANSTAAFL - There aint no such thing as a free lunch.
If it sounds too good to be true it just might be so.
http://www.pbase.com/photoleon
http://www.leongoodman.com

I have to agree I'd like to have them both unbanned.

Anada
--



some pics: http://www.pbase.com/anada

If you gave someone the keys to your house and they came in and stole some money from you, would you give them a second chance and give them the keys again?

Just curious.

Phil

Phil,

I think you're completely off with your comparison.

It's more like...if you allowed people into your business or home and they wrote on your bathroom wall or something. Would you allow this person back?

For me..the answer is yes.

Wow, Phil, what an extreme example ! I could reply that, well, yes, even the serious crime of stealing does not earn you a lifetime in jail, and society will give a second chance. But Peter & Iliah did not steal anything from anybody. They did give a lot of their time sharing their knowledge with us, though. This is not a relevant discussion.

What is relevant is the following: Phil Askey has allowed people in the past to come back after having been banned for a while. He has taken this decision several times after people have made the request in a thread, like this one. In fact, nobody has ever been banned for doing that. I infer that:

• it is not against the rule to ask

• bringing Phil's attention to the case of a banned person and asking him to reverse the decision is perfectly okay with him.

• Phil will investigate (hence the reason my first post has so many details) and may indeed stop the ban.

Thierry

Phil said:

If you gave someone the keys to your house and they came in and
stole some money from you, would you give them a second chance and
give them the keys again?

Just curious.

Phil

Click to expand...

--
Thierry

Jordanington said:

Phil,

I think you're completely off with your comparison.

Click to expand...

That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to have one. See my response to TOF.

Phil

TOF guy said:

Wow, Phil, what an extreme example ! I could reply that, well, yes,
even the serious crime of stealing does not earn you a lifetime in
jail, and society will give a second chance. But Peter & Iliah did
not steal anything from anybody. They did give a lot of their time
sharing their knowledge with us, though. This is not a relevant
discussion.

Click to expand...

Oh, but it is relevant. I am merely playing the devil's advocate, here -- the subject doesn't make any difference to me at all , though I agree the two were very helpful posters and a valuable resource for the posters, Iliah in particular. Didn't steal? Let's explore that for a minute.

Now, let's take a look at the relevant aspect. This is a high volume web site and is very expensive to operate. The site owner allows us free access. All he asks is we follow a few simple rules. Yes, there is an ulterior motive at work for the owner. Being a high volume web site, it is also a very high traffic site with that traffic (me and you) being a targeted user group. High volume sites with a targeted user group demand a premium for ad space, i.e. "money". If you advertise a commercial venture on this site free of charge, you ARE in essence "stealing" from the site owner. You are also doing the same if you direct traffic from this site to your own commercial site. You still think it's not relevant?

TOF guy said:

What is relevant is the following: Phil Askey has allowed people in
the past to come back after having been banned for a while. He has
taken this decision several times after people have made the
request in a thread, like this one.

Click to expand...

Yep, with a small distinction. There are forum rules for behavior and forum rules for the commercial aspect. The two in question stubbed their toe on the wrong set.

Again, it doesn't make any difference to me whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I think it would be benefical to many posters for them to return. All I'm doing with my post is providing a little balance to the issue and provoking a little thought.

Phil

The rules are clear, and a user's posting history does not excuse overstepping the mark.

I don't believe the posting rule state that violators are necessarily banned for life. Phil can certainly has the latitude to decide what’s best for his site. Since Iliah and Peter were respected and knowledgeable contributors, their reinstatement merits consideration.

If Phil were willing to contact Iliah and Peter and could secure a commitment from them not to repeat the behavior that lead to their banning, the forums would certainly be enhanced by their renewed participation. Having barred them for several months, Phil would have made his point that the rules mean what they say. Seems like a win-win to me.

--
Regards,
Dave

pbase and dpreview.com supporter
http://www.pbase.com/dave_dickerson

Phil i have to say,

You thinking on stealing seems to be rather selective. We are talking about Nikon products, invariably, Adobe products, paintshop, capture 1, bibble, Rawshooter, noise ninja, neat image etc. all get a mention along the way too. Last time I looked, they were all commercial products as well. Is that stealing?

Why is mentioning a product from a small business that does something unique stealing, when the free publicity for those mentioned above is not? face facts, this is a forum that discusses commercial products and their uses pure and simple. All of which could be considered "free advertising". being selective on what products we can and cannot talk about in an open discussion smacks of bigotry.

Cheers
--
http://bradm.photopoints.com ,
http://www.usefilm.com/browse.php?mode=port&data=13628

I never knew these guys but it seems most people would appreciate their reinstatement

as you perceived when I started a thread to ask you to re-consider Iliah's ban a year ago. In fact, my emails to you on the same matter went unanswered. I'm pleading with your good senses to seriously re-consider this appeal by all of us. In all honesty, I could never find an aggressive post from Iliaih or Peter yet we see quite a few on the Canon fora when people are promoting their stuff. C'mon Phil, show somenice British Christmas spirit.

Henry Goh

Brad Morris said:

Phil i have to say,

You thinking on stealing seems to be rather selective. We are
talking about Nikon products, invariably, Adobe products,
paintshop, capture 1, bibble, Rawshooter, noise ninja, neat image
etc. all get a mention along the way too. Last time I looked, they
were all commercial products as well. Is that stealing?

Why is mentioning a product from a small business that does
something unique stealing, when the free publicity for those
mentioned above is not? face facts, this is a forum that discusses
commercial products and their uses pure and simple. All of which
could be considered "free advertising". being selective on what
products we can and cannot talk about in an open discussion smacks
of bigotry.

Click to expand...

Bigotry? ROFL

Are you being dense on purpose or just following along with the "devil's advocate" thing? I prefer to think the second but fear it's the first, and not on purpose.

I use Neat Image. It's a great program. I rec it (along with others) on these forums ALL the time and provide links to said tools. I have no financial interest not garner any gain from such mention. Purely altruistic.

Now, let's say I owned Neat Image or was paid a commission on every sale linked from this site. In the interest of fair business practices and the rules of this site, I would be bound to pay, at a minimum, a fair advertising fee to the site owner.

Do you understand the difference?

In another vein, let's say Askey allowed product owners and software developers free access to these forums. How quick would it become just like junk mail you ignore every day and the site become worthless to both forum members and Askey alike.

Surely you can see the difference. This site in its entirety is a business. If you have ever been involved in a business, in particular the ad and marketing side, you know what I am saying is correct.

You failed to note I don't advocate one way or the other on this particular issue even though I wote it MORE than once. I'm just injecting a dose of reality into this touchy-feely thread.

Phil

PhotoLeon1935 said:

Phill's greatest asset is the huge database and history still
available of all the posts and the ease of finding what you want.

Now ask yourself, "Is all the blather about booze, babes and broads
worth archiving?" This particualr forum has been taken over by a
bunch of loose lipped, low class, bar talk guys who are not
promoting the art of photography.

Click to expand...

And you are the photo god/guru on here now...lighten up and smile you self absorbed wannabee. Look in the end of the lense, and ask the person

in the reflection, is it worth making personnal defamation remarks to folks I dont even know??? If you knew what class was, you might keep your loose lips shut Mr.ArtofPhotography...and all that blather you so highly speak of, actually makes the world go round...because if it wasn't, she would be a pretty stuffy planet to live on....

my 2 bits...

PhotoLeon1935 said:

I think this forum is no longer worthy of the masters. A perfect
forum to me would be a good mix of Iliah, Peter, Hogan, Margulis,
SamJStern, David Chinn, Goh, TOF, Fotogenetic and Jerremy all
dealing with multi sided issues such as monitor and printer
calibration, noise and moire control, DNG, LAB, gamut and all the
things that can make great photographs and art.

I hang out much less here than at RML beta and the retouch forum.
This used to be my favorite place to go and is still on my Mozilla
tab. I have not made a notable contribution to this forum in a long
time.

Did anyone think to ask Peter and Iliah if they wanted to come
back? Maybe they are still banned, because of their own decision.

Maybe a diplomat will rise up out of this bunch and bring them
back. (Ask and you shall receive.)

My personal reflectance is that I would rather have them to myself
than subject them to the unworthy.

--
TANSTAAFL - There aint no such thing as a free lunch.
If it sounds too good to be true it just might be so.
http://www.pbase.com/photoleon
http://www.leongoodman.com

Click to expand...

--
If a tree falls in the forest...did anyone get a picture of it?

irvin said:

Nive forums like these are a dime a dozen. I like it here, but
it would not be a big deal going somewhere else.

Click to expand...

Can you or someone else list the "Nine" forums, that are just like this one..

I know someone who has been banned (For no explainable reason, and no answer fro Askey), who would like to spread his good spirits and knowledge somewhere else..

Thanks
--
John
Torrance Tartars Fan
Equipment Listed In Profile



WWW.TORRANCEFOOTBALL.COM

I have learned a lot from their posts and they are valuable members of the community.

Jim

Phil,

So Thomas Knoll should be banned talking about photoshop issues? Eric Hyman should be nanned talking about bibble?

Yes thes 2 guys wrote Raw magick but it does do things differently to what other Raw converters were doing and that was the basis of the discussions revolving around raw magick.

I never saw a post saying "Buy our product". I did see discussions that pointed out that say NC does something this way and raw magick did something another way and the results were different/improved with RM over the traditional methods. They could have taken the sneaky approach and claimed they had just found this product and hyped it as an "interested consumer" but they didn't they were up front from day one as to what their connection to the product was. I think their approach showed alot more integrity than one using the sneaky approach.

How is that different than Eric Hyman extolling the virtues of the Highlight recovery feature of Bibble ir Thomas know talking about the new features in CS2 or ACR? To my view, the only difference is in the size of market share of the products being discussed.

Phil Youngblood said:

Brad Morris said:

Phil i have to say,

You thinking on stealing seems to be rather selective. We are
talking about Nikon products, invariably, Adobe products,
paintshop, capture 1, bibble, Rawshooter, noise ninja, neat image
etc. all get a mention along the way too. Last time I looked, they
were all commercial products as well. Is that stealing?

Why is mentioning a product from a small business that does
something unique stealing, when the free publicity for those
mentioned above is not? face facts, this is a forum that discusses
commercial products and their uses pure and simple. All of which
could be considered "free advertising". being selective on what
products we can and cannot talk about in an open discussion smacks
of bigotry.

Click to expand...

Bigotry? ROFL

Are you being dense on purpose or just following along with the
"devil's advocate" thing? I prefer to think the second but fear
it's the first, and not on purpose.

I use Neat Image. It's a great program. I rec it (along with
others) on these forums ALL the time and provide links to said
tools. I have no financial interest not garner any gain from such
mention. Purely altruistic.

Now, let's say I owned Neat Image or was paid a commission on
every sale linked from this site. In the interest of fair business
practices and the rules of this site, I would be bound to pay, at a
minimum, a fair advertising fee to the site owner.

Do you understand the difference?

In another vein, let's say Askey allowed product owners and
software developers free access to these forums. How quick would it
become just like junk mail you ignore every day and the site become
worthless to both forum members and Askey alike.

Surely you can see the difference. This site in its entirety is a
business. If you have ever been involved in a business, in
particular the ad and marketing side, you know what I am saying is
correct.

You failed to note I don't advocate one way or the other on this
particular issue even though I wote it MORE than once. I'm just
injecting a dose of reality into this touchy-feely thread.

Phil

Click to expand...

--
http://bradm.photopoints.com ,
http://www.usefilm.com/browse.php?mode=port&data=13628