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John Gaddy

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I know that many of you have shoot the 20D and processed many files from it as well. I am hoping to get some feedback, for those that may have not preferred it, if the 5D has more subtle reds than the 20D. Specifically, in the mid-tones?

I have found on numerous 20D bodies that the reds seem too strong or unbalanced in the mids... I found myself having to process this out of every image that I shot. This was never a WB issues as the WB was spot on...

There are many tempting features that I would like to have in the 5D....If there a some of you out there that had the same experiences that I have had with the 20D and see the problem solved within the 5D, I would love to here it...

Thanks
 
Most film and camera sensors are more sensitive to the red end of the spectrum than to the blue wavelengths.

With digital cameras like the 20D and 5D, it is possible to decrease the sensitivity to various wavelengths including reds by going into the Parameters or filters and setting this up.

If you are using camera default settings, try experimenting to achieve the desired efect.

Good luck!
--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com
 
Vance,

Thanks for your reply. You have apparently not seen/or prefer what is there....Actually, I am not sure what you are saying...But thanks...

I have shot plenty of Nikon gear and the problem was never there in this regard so I have to assume it is body specific. I also know that the Nikon gear leans more towards cools whereas the Canon seem to lean more towards a reddish/amber.

Like I said, this is not a WB issue but purely a color set on the 20D. Yes, I have read the manual and understand the hue settings and other adjustments of the camera :) This did not cure the problem and only induced other color that I did not like... You see, I thnk the 20D has a color balance that is very close to perfect with the exceptions of the reds...It never seemed to be a saturation problem as much as it was mid tone balance problem. Canon seemed to overly take the read road....For me, it is too strong. Injecting cyan in the mid-tones and quarter-tones, the problem can be taken out for the most part.

I also found that using any RAW converter outside Canon's made the problem a little more intense....Bibble is the closest to right but seems to muddy up the reds to give a chalky look on the skin....ACR, is my least favorite....

Understand, I am not saying that this is a Converter problem as I think the converters are doing there jobs. For a long time I chased this as a WB problem.....Getting frustrated that I could never get the right x,y color balance just right....> It finally dawned on me, that one did not exist without curving the reds during the RAW conversion or after in PS...

But going back to my original question.....I just am going to find it hard to believe that I am the only one with this preference in regards to reds on the 20D. For those who have "experienced" the same feeling and have gone to the 5D, I would like to know if you have seen an improvement in this?

Thanks
 
Canon's new "Picture Styles" strategy for color parameters is causing some folks to experience "oversaturated reds" and/or easily-blown highlights (with JPEG). Some of the picture styles supplied with the camera comprise rather outlandish tone curves, so if your tastes in color are conservative, stick to the "Faithful" or "Neutral" picture styles on the 5D.

RAW files processed with ACR 3.3 Beta or RSP to my eye do not show problems with oversaturation of any colors. These RAW converters do not understand/apply the in-camera-selected picture style, so the only way it comes into play is in on-camera review on the LCD. Using Canon's own DPP as a RAW converter will, by default, apply the picture style that was selected for the as-shot image. A different style can be selected at the time of conversion, of course.

--

'Life is pleasant, death is peaceful; it's the transition that's troublesome' - Isaac Asimov
 
depends onwhat kind of lenses you use.
Canon lenses tend to give reddish skintones.
i prefer Sigma lenses (warm tone) which give better color in red.
John Gaddy said:
I know that many of you have shoot the 20D and processed many
files from it as well. I am hoping to get some feedback, for those
that may have not preferred it, if the 5D has more subtle reds than
the 20D. Specifically, in the mid-tones?

I have found on numerous 20D bodies that the reds seem too strong
or unbalanced in the mids... I found myself having to process this
out of every image that I shot. This was never a WB issues as the
WB was spot on...

There are many tempting features that I would like to have in the
5D....If there a some of you out there that had the same
experiences that I have had with the 20D and see the problem solved
within the 5D, I would love to here it...

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
I shoot with Nikon, Kodak, Fuji and Canon dslrs and the Canons (20d, 1d) do push the reds up too high..I call it the cartoon effect. I don't have the 5d, but from what I've seen it looks to be a bit better in that regard.
 
I know what you mean about the 20D. The reds on the 5D are much better, but any setting other than Faithful or Natural for JPG are a little over saturated.
--
http://www.pixelstate.com
 
Thanks Ron,

What are your normal ACR red hue and saturation settings or are you adjuting for every image? I have played with every setting and within every converter....This may just be a "taste" thing for me that I can't seem to tweak to my liking.

Thanks
 
Yes, this is the gamble I am taking - I ordered the camera yesterday after some fair amount of shotting with it in the store. Faithful seems to be very accurate and the other are just crazy but may have there place at the right time.

The other thing I noticed from testing this camera, unlike Ron's notes on the 5D, is that the jpegs seem more accurate color wise than that of the RAW image. But this could just be entirely a taste thing for me... I am not anti-RAW at all but when it comes to skin-tones, ACR, Bibble and especially Raw Essentials does not do it for me....I have always felt the profiles in these converters were not accurate.

In regards to DPP with the 20D, seems it was heavy globally with reds. In regards to RAW with the 5D, DPP seems to hit color on skin right on... I hope I am right now that the camera is on the way.

Thanks
 
Fritz Byle said:
Canon's new "Picture Styles" strategy for color parameters is
causing some folks to experience "oversaturated reds" and/or
easily-blown highlights (with JPEG). Some of the picture styles
supplied with the camera comprise rather outlandish tone curves, so
if your tastes in color are conservative, stick to the "Faithful"
or "Neutral" picture styles on the 5D.
Click to expand...
Agreed. So far only the Faithful or Neutral settings don't foul up the bright reds in the images. I can imagine what the other Picture Styles must do to the in-camera JPEGs but I'm not eager to find out. What could Canon have been thinking? Did they not have enough beta-testers yelling at them: "this looks awful!" ? Or did they do all of their testing with the in-camera saturation and contrast settings at the lowest possible values?

Also agreed that this kind of problem is less apparent in RSP or ACR than in DPP. I would assume it's also less a problem in C1 and the rest.

Sometimes, in RSP, I've had to back off the "Vibrance" slider a bit (meaning, a negative value) to tone down nearly-oversaturated reds. But still that problem seems less severe with the 5D than it did with the 20D. (Wish I still had my D60. There was "something" about that sensor that did a downright fine job with bright red objects.) I suppose an alternative would be to leave "Vibrance" alone and instead tone down unruly red areas by using Photoshop's Selective Color control...
 
Hats off to you, Ron -- it's clear from the many samples you've posted that you do a consistently outstanding job in your processing with skin tones (which are the bane of my existence with digital capture).

I have taken shots in which person "A" has skin tones that are excessively reddish in places, where person "B" -- standing next to "A" and illuminated the same way -- has excessively sallow-looking skin. Maybe that's how it was in the original scene, but no matter -- it jumps right out at you when you've viewing the images in print or on-screen. Result: eeeuuwww...

When it really gets interesting is: a given person's face has localized areas that are a bit more red (or perhaps magenta) than the rest of the face. That reddishness can become really gross-looking in the digital capture. Then it's time to haul out Selective Color and give it yet another spin. Someone I know who wrote a color-correction plugin for Photoshop has said he wonders if there might even be an infrared "component" that gets into the mix with skin tones, sometimes. (Beats me...)
 
ron purdy said:
Mike: can you post a sample? I'd like to see what you are talking
about. Are the exposures good?
Click to expand...
Ron -- thanks for offering to look at the shot. I don't subscribe to any hosting site at the moment. (And, as the shot in question was just a cheesy flash-on-camera snapshot of my in-laws, I'd be downright embarrassed to post it for a pro to look at! Not the world's most flattering portrait! :-) The shot is a bit underexposed -- it would be acceptable as-is but I gave it a 0.4 EV tweak in RSP to brighten it up. Fortunately, I'm finding that unlike ACR, RSP doesn't cause a noticeable color shift when the EV slider is moved.

Oddly enough, there were other shots taken on that occasion, in much the same lighting, in which the skin tones came out looking pretty much as I'd expected them to. They look marginally better, but only marginally, when processed via DPP (using either the Faithful or Neutral setting...heaven save us from "Portrait"!). There's one thing I haven't tried yet, and despite the cost maybe it's worth doing: buy C1LE and try it that way (but I don't know if it would be not worth doing unless I also bought additional profiles from Magne).
 
Just did a side by side in the studio...5D vs. 1Ds and the color on the 5D is definitely biased toward excessive red. Also, this is the second time that camera was not able to render the a light blue dress properly...it came out purple, whereas the 1Ds was spot on with both skin tones and dress.
--
Andy C
 
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