-=Semi-Wide Primes=-

ok, so i need some faster lenses.. i have enough zooms to cover me from 12-400, but now i need some low light shallow dof primes..

i am set on these so far..

Canon 50 1.4
Canon 85 1.8

now i just need a wider lens.. and this is where it gets hard because anything less than the 24 1.4L is not stellar on the reviews.. here are my choices thus far..

Canon 28 1.8 USM- good focal lenght, fast USM, but sketchy reviews on corner and CA

Canon 20 2.8 USM- like the focal length, fast USM, but not as fast and i already cover 20mm at f4..

Canon 35 2.0- a bit long and redundant with a 50mm and that motor is just terrible.. but better optically..

Canon 24 2.8- good focal length, good optics.. bad motor, not as fast as i would like..

Canon Sigma 30 1.4- a tad long.. very FAST.. good center sharpness.. iffy on the corner performance, expensive and its a darn Digi-only lens..

i am leaning towards the 28 1.8 right now as it is FAST, a decent focal length and is FF capable..

Thanks in advance.. your input is much appreciated!
--
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Dustin Hardwick
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( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

I own it. It rocks. Reading the reviews and test charts will leave you with an "iffy" feeling about this lens. Mine is dead on focus and sharpness. And the color/contrast is phenomenal. I'm surprised at just how little I have to do to the images in terms of sharpening and what-not to get an intended result.

Shooting wide open is tough work, that's often misunderstood. When working in such narrow DOF limits, one has to pay very close attention to focus points and the overal feel one is trying to create. Wide angle lenses behave differently than standards and teles, so that's the grain of salt to have when reading reviews.

I agree. Try the 28/f1.8. Take pictures with it, rather than comparing charts, graphs and brick walls. You're welcome to have a look at some of my samples at http://www.pbase.com/rs2/canon_2818



--
Ron
http://www.pbase.com/rs2

Mitch-
that is just the kind of information i have been wanting to hear..

i have been pouring over the reviews, trying to sort the good information from the bad and it seems to be a good lens if one uses it correctly.. and your comments seem to support this, so as of right now its position is strengthened..

thanks alot, i appreciate the info..
---------------------------------------------
Dustin Hardwick
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( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

RS2-

thanks for the examples.. that really helps.. MTF charts only give you so much information.. the color and contrast of that lens looks quite good indeed and the corner sharpness looks good on the railroad track image..

ppl talk about the corner sharpness issues wide-open... but how often are you needing tack sharp corners at f1.8 where the corners are usually OOF anyways..

well, those examples have further strengthened my resolve for the 28 1.8.. i appreciate the examples and info..

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Dustin Hardwick
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( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Hey, no problem. I pulled one my test images out and posted it in my gallery, feel free to check it out...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lmitch/68121108/

Hards80 said:

Mitch-
that is just the kind of information i have been wanting to hear..

i have been pouring over the reviews, trying to sort the good
information from the bad and it seems to be a good lens if one uses
it correctly.. and your comments seem to support this, so as of
right now its position is strengthened..

thanks alot, i appreciate the info..
---------------------------------------------
Dustin Hardwick
---------------------------------------------
( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Click to expand...

Exacty. I've been beating this drum for several weeks and been getting hammered by the MTF chart police for doing it. But I really don't care what those who worship at the alter of test charts think. This is a good lens. ;-)

--
Peter White

Hards80 said:

RS2-

thanks for the examples.. that really helps.. MTF charts only give
you so much information.. the color and contrast of that lens looks
quite good indeed and the corner sharpness looks good on the
railroad track image..

ppl talk about the corner sharpness issues wide-open... but how
often are you needing tack sharp corners at f1.8 where the corners
are usually OOF anyways..

well, those examples have further strengthened my resolve for the
28 1.8.. i appreciate the examples and info..

---------------------------------------------
Dustin Hardwick

Click to expand...

My pleasure, Dustin. I completely agree with your analysis regarding the corner sharpness issue. When you're shooting wide open in low light, the corners really don't matter. I have been pretty happy with the pictures I have been able to take with the 28. Let us know what you choose, and post some pictures.
--
Ron
http://www.pbase.com/rs2

... You and Mitch and I can sing the praises of the 28/1.8 by taking and showing pictures with it. It seems that the MTF squad don't actually take pictures, or at least they don't share them with the rest of us.
--
Ron
http://www.pbase.com/rs2

thanks guys for all the great info and for assuring me of this lens.. this was the forerunner for its focal length, speed and USM.. i am glad that all of your opinioins coincide with what i had concluded after sifting through the all the junk out there..

the 28 1.8 will be my purchase.. now i just have to decide on what order i want to get these primes! i have a 50 1.8mk1 that can suffice for now, so i think i will pick up the 28 or 85 next.. see which one comes up as the best bargain first.. hehe..

will be nice to stay at or above 1.8 at 28,50, and 85.. =)
--
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Dustin Hardwick
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( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

yea..i just wanted to throw in my agreement here too..

the color rendition and contrast is something that just seems to get lost today in the MTFs and resolution charts and such.. sure a nice aspherical multi-layer 300 element zoom lens can resolve about as much as many primes.. but the contrast and color just doesnt seem to be there yet.. not to mention the speed..

i dont oogle over the 85 1.2L images because i can tell a difference in the sharpness at the compressions and web settings, but for the gorgeous colors/contrast and smooth as butter oof areas..
--
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Dustin Hardwick
---------------------------------------------
( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Together we can take down the MTF Chart Police....aka "The Man"...

I don't follow the charts, graphs, and number ratings on optics. The best way I found to judge a lens is to pop over to Photosig or PBase and see some shots with it. When I do buy one, I test it by actually going out and shooting. Novel concept these days, but it works!

Hards80 said:

yea..i just wanted to throw in my agreement here too..

the color rendition and contrast is something that just seems to
get lost today in the MTFs and resolution charts and such.. sure a
nice aspherical multi-layer 300 element zoom lens can resolve about
as much as many primes.. but the contrast and color just doesnt
seem to be there yet.. not to mention the speed..

i dont oogle over the 85 1.2L images because i can tell a
difference in the sharpness at the compressions and web settings,
but for the gorgeous colors/contrast and smooth as butter oof
areas..
--
---------------------------------------------
Dustin Hardwick
---------------------------------------------
( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Click to expand...

Glad I could help you out. I'll see if I have an f/1.8 image handy for you as well. One thing I'd highly recommend is getting the hood to go with it, model # EW-63 II.

You're building a kit similar to mine. I only shoot primes, and have the 28 f/1.8, 50 f/1.4, and the 85 f/1.8 is on it's way. I may one day, possibly, get the 135 f/2, but I seldom shoot anything long, so I'm still on the fence there.

Hards80 said:

thanks guys for all the great info and for assuring me of this
lens.. this was the forerunner for its focal length, speed and
USM.. i am glad that all of your opinioins coincide with what i had
concluded after sifting through the all the junk out there..

the 28 1.8 will be my purchase.. now i just have to decide on what
order i want to get these primes! i have a 50 1.8mk1 that can
suffice for now, so i think i will pick up the 28 or 85 next.. see
which one comes up as the best bargain first.. hehe..

will be nice to stay at or above 1.8 at 28,50, and 85.. =)
--
---------------------------------------------
Dustin Hardwick
---------------------------------------------
( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Click to expand...

if you are unsure about longer focal length primes.. you may purchase the soft focus 135 2.8.. it is quite sharp (rivals the L really) when used in normal modes, even wide open.. is quite cheap at around 200-250 USD and will give you a better idea if you need to spend 800-900USD on a 135 2.0L..

worth a check into anyways..
--
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Dustin Hardwick
---------------------------------------------
( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

I may just look into that, that's a better price for an "occasional" use item like that....

I just dug another image out of my test folder, of my trusty Pine Cone Lens Testing Apparatus. It's an exlusive, state of the art testing tool ;-)

This one was taken at f/1.8, and just a smidge of sharpening (50,0.8,0) I'll leave it up for a few days for ya.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lmitch/68132183/

Hards80 said:

if you are unsure about longer focal length primes.. you may
purchase the soft focus 135 2.8.. it is quite sharp (rivals the L
really) when used in normal modes, even wide open.. is quite cheap
at around 200-250 USD and will give you a better idea if you need
to spend 800-900USD on a 135 2.0L..

worth a check into anyways..
--
---------------------------------------------
Dustin Hardwick
---------------------------------------------
( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Click to expand...

thanks for the great samples.. both look really great with only mild sharpening..

if you pick up that softfocus 135 2.8, let me know what you think, hehe.. the bokeh and colors look amazing on the examples i have seen.. =)

be a very specific use lens though i think.. mainly candids where you aren't trying to be intrusive i would imagine.. or if you are just trying get that compressed, flattering look in your outdoor portraits..

--
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Dustin Hardwick
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( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

--Semi wide primes?

Try the Sigma 20 f/1.8. Becomes your 35 on a crop sensor. I used the hell out of mine and it's the only prime I miss.

Darryl

OMP Portfolio
http://www.onemodelplace.com/photographer_list.cfm?P_ID=58653

ok, on a crop camera, the title should be "normal primes"

thanks for the suggestion... i have looked into that one as well, but it seems to be high on copy-copy variability and the focus seems a bit inconsistant and slow.. i take it these were not issues for you..

also, great shots on your site..
--
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Dustin Hardwick
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( http://www.hardwickphotos.com )

Canon 20_D w/ various lenses and accessories.
Canon S_50 for when the above kit is too heavy

Hi Dustin, thanks for the kind words...

I looked over the port to pick out a couple shots to refer you to.

The shots of Samara in the Artistic and Fine Art sections were shot on Sigma 20 at ISO 100 f/1.8 handheld with one 600 watt tungsten head and a shoot thru umbrella instead of strobes. Getting 1/250th on the meter ...I would just pan and shoot bursts. I was a kid with a camera that day.

I remember thinking how nice it was not even worrying about trying to "catch that perfect instant" . . . those shoots were a lot of fun.

You get a very dreamy look with the Sigma 20 wide open at f/1.8. It's not for everyone and every day but I like it.

To be fair , most modern lenses - not for nothing - get designed on a supercomputer - and are far better than the consumers themselves.

This post made me reflect on all the posts I read lamenting this or that about a lens...thought I would share this with all of you.

It seems every other time I visit the shop I frequent I hear buyers complaining their $200 point and shoot gets better pictures "right out of the camera" than their $1500 DSLR and demand a refund - it's funny because they flat out refuse refunds. The guys are very nice and try to explain if the people will listen.

20mm on 20D at 4-5 feet f/1.8, your DOF is about 4/5th of a foot.

DOF of 1 foot in a room 20 feet deep means 5 % sharp and 95% fuzz.
You could coat the thing with kryptonite ok? It is what it is.

It's an effect and the reason you buy a DSLR and fast glass in the first place.

They moan, "but I focus on a spot and even THAT isn't sharp. WAH!"

They grab the cam out of their hands and take a picture and blow it out to 300% on their screen - nope - the lens is fine. Explain DOF to them again.

Upon examination, many have some degree of user error in their technique.

For example, the "focus recompose trick" when using AF.

You don't do that at f/1.8 - not even on a wide. Shifting the axis and focal plane of the camera even a few degrees....thows off the sweet spot.

After one Jerry Springer style blowout I walked over and commented to the guys behind the counter who probably have been shooting longer than I have been alive and they explained it to me.

The cheapest Canon powershot is a 5- 17mm lens which allows you to shoot at f/2.8 at wide and still get a DOF of over 4 feet.

At f/5.6 your DOF is 23 feet. That's why the whole room is sharp.

On a 20D with a 20mm lens you have to stop down to f/13 and actually closer to f/16 to get that very same depth of field if your subject is 4-5 feet away.

Forget about a 50mm or higher. You run out of stops. It's like that.

That is why these P&S cameras are made that way ...to prop up the consumer with zero skill set and protect them from themselves.

Then there's the in camera processing and sharpening...

Anyhoo - back to the Sig.

While I usually take reviews with a grain of salt, heres a couple. One by a "reviewer" and one by a bunch of EUC's (end user consumers)

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=125&sort=7&cat=38&page=1

http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/sigma_20_18/index.htm

IMVVHO , the Sig is worth a look. If you can get into a shop and try one out and pop in your card and take a few shots and run through the stops ... you may be very surprised.

Thanks again for the kind word on the port. Best of luck with your choice.

D
OMP Portfolio
http://www.onemodelplace.com/photographer_list.cfm?P_ID=58653

Hold it, you're all under MTF arrest!

Looks like you've had a nice little 28/1.8 party here, but as an official card-holding member of your friendly MTF police, I feel obligated to crash it and chime in here.

I am honestly happy for you that you enjoy your 28/1.8 lenses, and I too recommend it to anyone planning to shoot in more than just APS-C Land in the immediate future. My point all along has simply been that a properly functioning 30/1.4 has the clear advantage over the 28/1.8 for the APS-C shooter* , all things considered. (Peter, it appears you have again somehow forgotten to enthusiastically cite your favorite chart: http://www.pbase.com/lwestfall/image/51415581 )

With my graphs of the PhotoZone test data (a very reliable data set, despite its unfortunate inability to account much for sample variation), I have just been trying to help people in their lens comparisons in terms of sharpness and CA data. Of course this is merely complementary to all your wonderful photos with these lenses that you kindly share here, but hopefully all this taken together proves helpful to some people out there.

Unfortunately I cannot share any photos from the 30/1.4 because I have not yet purchased the lens, believe it or not! But since I will be shooting 1.6x for a while yet, I do hope to get it soon - and when I do I will be happy to share samples. In the meantime those interested in samples showing how stellar a 30/1.4 can be can see many threads like http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=15815872 or http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=15582245 or http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/314937 or http://www.pbase.com/fstopjojo/30extest or the PBase pages for these two lenses:

http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/30_14_ex_dc_hsm (Marketed 2005, 732 photos, 25 users)

http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_28_18u (Marketed 1995, 311 photos, 34 users)

As for my own photos, I'm still in the process of setting them all up on my family photo site. If you'd like to see them they're at http://lincolnwestfall.smugmug.com - but be aware that everything there is "under construction" and most photos are still unprocessed. (I took the photos on my 20D with my 50/1.8 MkI, Sigma 24-70/2.8EX, Canon 70-200/2.8L, and Peleng 8mm Fisheye, in order of frequency; these are all lenses I am very satisfied with and highly recommend, BTW.) The site is mainly for sharing our lives with our family and friends that are scattered across the globe, so I usually don't share the link in places like this A) to keep it reasonably private and B) to save the site's limited bandwidth for family members. Within a week I hope to put up a bunch more from weddings and various friends and family get-togethers, but again please be easy on the bandwidth (not that I really need to worry about you downloading all my amazing photos ). But I'm pretty busy right now in med school and with my young family.

I'm obviously no pro (this is actually a hobby I didn't take up seriously until 8 months ago, when I stole it from my wife in the process of getting her to go digital ), but I find quite a bit of joy in photography (especially of my kids!) and hope to gradually and continually develop my still-fledgling skills. (And I would welcome comments/advice you might have for me regarding my images, BTW.) I like how sharp, fast lenses and high-quality sensors help me capture and display beautiful, precious moments, but all the technical details are of course insignificant compared to the emotions and memories even the crudest snapshots allow me and my loved ones to cherish. To be honest, some of my favorite pictures have actually been with a cheap disposable film camera (with a plastic lens?)!: http://lincolnwestfall.smugmug.com/gallery/475131

Anyway, I wish you all the best and hope that my comments and graphs are helpful to someone and also that we can all make the most of our lenses regardless of how soft the corners are.

Warm regards,
Lincoln

--
ALL PhotoZone.de lens test data compared graphically:
http://www.pbase.com/lwestfall/lens_tests