707 - Firmware upgrade?

ZB62660

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Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected) so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?

b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model issues by firmware upgrades?
 
a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?

ZB
Here's a note I sent to Phil Askey today....hope he will reply......

" Phil:

I know you are "close" to the manufacturers...they send you prototypes for review before anyone else.My question is...do you see the day when Sony will go the route of Nikon and others and use firmware upgrades to enhance performance/add features to cameras such as 707.Also, what do you suspect are their reasons for not doing this now?
I'm sure they follow closely what their competitors are doing.

Can a feature such as a Histogram function be added to 707 by firmware upgrade or is this a basic build issue at the manufacturing level ?

I realize you are too busy with important things in your business to answer this enquiry personally but it would be good information to perhaps reply in the STF forum and let everyone share your insights on this question(s)
Thanks
Don C "
.....have to wait and see what comes back from our leader ???
Regards Don C.
 
Sony does not provide user upgradeable firmware capability with the F707. There have been occassions with some older models where a problem was so serious that a free factory upgrade was offered...but not a downloadable update. This has been a frequently requested feature by STF members as well as Phil.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
Not a good news... I know there has been some color correction software (Qimage???) tuned for a particular camera model. Obviously that software is not available for F707, but I wonder if that kind of software can effectively alleviate 707 color problems?

I think only certain colors are seriously affected, possibly in conjunction with exposure time, aperture etc.

I have 707 on order. Should I cancel or take it?

ZB.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
No, I would not cancel the order. The near unanimous consensus is that the F707 is a superb camera. The production models that people are receiving are performing better than expected based on what we had seen in the various web reviews. In fact, there have been no unpleasant surprises so far -- just a few pleasant ones. Do note that Sony cameras oversaturate color by design but this is just a preference thing like film camera users that shoot with Velvia 50. You can always tone down the saturation in PhotoShop. Are there some specific color issues that you are referring to? Red channel saturation per chance? If so, that problem does not crop up in most everyday shots. And we have known about this one for quite awhile. Many digicams have red channel saturation issues under certain conditions.

After all is said and done, you are the one that must decide. And only a few people have posted re. their new F707s. So you may want to give it a few more weeks for a larger consensus to develop.
I think only certain colors are seriously affected, possibly in
conjunction with exposure time, aperture etc.

I have 707 on order. Should I cancel or take it?

ZB.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
The color (and many other parameters) on the F707 can be adjusted. I will probably recalibrate mine (less color saturation) when I get it. I will post some before and after pics.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
Andy, I don't think saturation can be adjusted in camera. That is actually what Phil suggested for future SONY models.

Not that I think 707 is a bad camera. I am really impressed by some portraits posted. I use Canon D30 at work, I owned Kodak DC215, Canon S10 and now Nikon CP950. Each of those cameras (except DC215 which was really a beginning) has it's '+' and '-'.

I like Nikon's color, swivel, weatherproof (almost) body. I don't like unreliable focusing, red eyes, inconsistent metering. And it is sloooooow.

Canon S10 is a great point and shoot camera, I think for the price and per design superior to majority of today's point and shoot models at the price level I paid for it ($300 + extra charger and battery). It oversaturates whites in bright lighting, but it has bulletproof focus, good metering and overall great color. Canon D30 is nice and fast, it is SLR(!) but its autofocus is useless for most of my shots (sorry!). F707 seems to have better dynamic range that D30. D30 is too expensive for home use also.

If one could have F707 with it’s dynamic range but Nikon’s color balance....

Of course, I know, I am dreaming.... One has to wait another two years for – possibly Minolta Dimage 9...

The intention of my post was trying to find what options one would have to cope with some (oversaturated red’s, greens) apparent problems of otherwise great camera.

ZB.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
Am I not making myself clear? Please re-read my post.
The color (and many other parameters) on the F707 CAN be adjusted.
Not that I think 707 is a bad camera. I am really impressed by some
portraits posted. I use Canon D30 at work, I owned Kodak DC215,
Canon S10 and now Nikon CP950. Each of those cameras (except DC215
which was really a beginning) has it's '+' and '-'.

I like Nikon's color, swivel, weatherproof (almost) body. I don't
like unreliable focusing, red eyes, inconsistent metering. And it
is sloooooow.
Canon S10 is a great point and shoot camera, I think for the price
and per design superior to majority of today's point and shoot
models at the price level I paid for it ($300 + extra charger and
battery). It oversaturates whites in bright lighting, but it has
bulletproof focus, good metering and overall great color. Canon D30
is nice and fast, it is SLR(!) but its autofocus is useless for
most of my shots (sorry!). F707 seems to have better dynamic range
that D30. D30 is too expensive for home use also.

If one could have F707 with it’s dynamic range but
Nikon’s color balance....
Of course, I know, I am dreaming.... One has to wait another two
years for – possibly Minolta Dimage 9...

The intention of my post was trying to find what options one would
have to cope with some (oversaturated red’s, greens) apparent
problems of otherwise great camera.

ZB.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
Not that I think 707 is a bad camera. I am really impressed by some
portraits posted. I use Canon D30 at work, I owned Kodak DC215,
Canon S10 and now Nikon CP950. Each of those cameras (except DC215
which was really a beginning) has it's '+' and '-'.

I like Nikon's color, swivel, weatherproof (almost) body. I don't
like unreliable focusing, red eyes, inconsistent metering. And it
is sloooooow.
Canon S10 is a great point and shoot camera, I think for the price
and per design superior to majority of today's point and shoot
models at the price level I paid for it ($300 + extra charger and
battery). It oversaturates whites in bright lighting, but it has
bulletproof focus, good metering and overall great color. Canon D30
is nice and fast, it is SLR(!) but its autofocus is useless for
most of my shots (sorry!). F707 seems to have better dynamic range
that D30. D30 is too expensive for home use also.

If one could have F707 with it’s dynamic range but
Nikon’s color balance....
Of course, I know, I am dreaming.... One has to wait another two
years for – possibly Minolta Dimage 9...

The intention of my post was trying to find what options one would
have to cope with some (oversaturated red’s, greens) apparent
problems of otherwise great camera.

ZB.
Let’s face it. Looking at first user shoots I think that
DSC-F707 is very capable camera. Especially when it comes to
portrait (some of them are spectacular) and some architectural
photos. 707 is NOT however problem-free. Color reproduction for
certain shots seems to be the most serious issue seen (suspected)
so far.

a) I wonder if that camera is generally firmware-upgradable?
b) Does anyone know if SONY ever in the past was fixing older model
issues by firmware upgrades?
 
That is why I used the term "recalibrate". These adjustments do not show up in the normal (user level) menus.
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 
Interesting. I've never owned a Sony camera. Can you expand on how this is done?
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 
Andy,

Sounds intriguing. Could you elaborate on this?
What else can be changed in the hidden menus?
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 
I kind of opened a can of worms here. Anyway, all recent Sony digicams and camcorders have a service mode for testing and adjustments. When I get my F707, I will post more details.
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 
My F707 will be arriving next week. This is the first I heard that the firmware was not user upgradeable. I am not pleased about this. But I guess it is Sony's way of saying to their engineers/developers: "Hey get it right the first time! Don't rely on fixing a problem with a firmware upgrade!".

I would definitely be interested in knowing how this recalibration is done.

BTW, I have a Sony minig DV camcorder. Is this service mode something that is documented in the owner's manual? Or is it some secret trick you learned?
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 
It would not be in the owner's manual because calibration is done in the service mode. It is not a trick. This is how adjustments are made to digicams and camcorders by service technicians. Out of the box, the setting for color saturation (for example) is set to a factory default.
My F707 will be arriving next week. This is the first I heard that
the firmware was not user upgradeable. I am not pleased about
this. But I guess it is Sony's way of saying to their
engineers/developers: "Hey get it right the first time! Don't rely
on fixing a problem with a firmware upgrade!".

I would definitely be interested in knowing how this recalibration
is done.

BTW, I have a Sony minig DV camcorder. Is this service mode
something that is documented in the owner's manual? Or is it some
secret trick you learned?
 
Ehhm Andy,

thanks for the info I think many people, me included, will appreciate your knowledge, but:

.. get down to the point! Please! How do I access this service menu? You will not be made responsible if anything goes wrong but I hate clumsy statements. Tell us how to access this service menu, if for sure this is possible without special gadgets or tools. If you want to try it first when you receive you 707 thats okay, but tell us what you will to.

Frank
My F707 will be arriving next week. This is the first I heard that
the firmware was not user upgradeable. I am not pleased about
this. But I guess it is Sony's way of saying to their
engineers/developers: "Hey get it right the first time! Don't rely
on fixing a problem with a firmware upgrade!".

I would definitely be interested in knowing how this recalibration
is done.

BTW, I have a Sony minig DV camcorder. Is this service mode
something that is documented in the owner's manual? Or is it some
secret trick you learned?
 
Andy,

The suspense is to much,are you going to tell us how to access ( the service menue) ,please?
 
I kind of opened a can of worms here.
That's an understatement.
Anyway, all recent Sony
digicams and camcorders have a service mode for testing and
adjustments.
I've always wondered about this but never investigated it any further, mostly because I like my S70 the way it is.
When I get my F707, I will post more details.
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 
I am sure that the service mode will be the same as other Sony digicams and camcorders but please wait until I get my F707 and confirm the exact procedures and settings. Otherwise, I feel that I am being irresponsible.
Andy,
The suspense is to much,are you going to tell us how to access (
the service menue) ,please?
 
I kind of opened a can of worms here.
That's an understatement.
Anyway, all recent Sony
digicams and camcorders have a service mode for testing and
adjustments.
I've always wondered about this but never investigated it any
further, mostly because I like my S70 the way it is.
When I had my S70 repaired last year, I was given the courtesy
of meeting the repair technician at his work place and
when I glanced at my camera I noticed never seen before menus
on the LCD screen, and as far as I remember, the camera
was not hooked up to anything.....so maybe their are
hidden menus accessible by the end-user. The only question
is- how do we unlock them?
When I get my F707, I will post more details.
I must be reading it differently as well. I hadn't heard anything
about color saturation adjustments on the 707. You can do exposure
compensation I think, but I don't think there are any color
saturation adjustments like the Canons (i think?) have.
 

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