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Returned the FZ30, sold the FZ5 and bought the FZ4S... (m)

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gil

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FZ5 sold - committed to a friend as I thought I could retain the FZ30.

FZ4S - can't ignore the $249 price at Vanns when I found myself w/o any FZ camera.

FZ30 - many things to like (higher res EVF, zoom ring, higher MP, weight/balance, etc.) but during my close to two weeks test (see lots of test shots at this link http://art4less.smugmug.com/FZ30%20Images ), encountered some issues which I was not able to fully resolve in the testing window. I returned it not because it is not desirable but I just want to keep my options open for now and until I have more idea on the issues I encountered. Might get it again after the holidays when the price is a bit lower.

FZ30 issues I encountered could be inherent to the design, to my particular camera only, settings not optimized or user error. The settings I successfully used in FZ10/20/5 needed some modifications.

Noise - not an issue for stationary subjects but could be for BIFs especially at digital zoom.

CA - encountered higher CA on shots and subjects that I normally don't encounter on the FZ10/20/5. Also I noticed CA on bird shots previosuly posted here.

Halo effect - worst at digital zoom but still present at optical zoom at even low setting of pic. adjust and no PP except for downsizing. Also noticed this on FZ30 shots posted here.

Digital zoom s#cks in the FZ30. At 2X, it is right-away activated even at below 12X. For the previous FZ I had, it only activates after 12X and I could stay below 2X DZ if needed.

Sample Issues at this link http://art4less.smugmug.com/gallery/957463

Some sample usable shots below. Lots more in the link given above.
cheers,
gil









--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
Gil, any camera in your hands does well, those 4 would make me want the 30 if I did not already have it! But knowing how you like to shoot in digital zoom I can see why you would not keep the 30. CA? I don't have as many CA shots with my 30 as I did my 20 one thing though were you using a teleconvertor with alot of your bad CA shots? . And what were your thoughts about the EZ modes? They would lessen the need for digital zoom.
--
Jeff



Link for Gallery: http://atomicfish.smugmug.com
 
I really like that last shot Gil. Funny you notice lots of CA with the 30, that is one thing that I find improved at least over the fz20 I own. Or maybe it is because I don't use a teleconverter on the fz30 like I did all the time with the fz20. One thing is for sure. You've made Gene (from Oregon) a happier man. Now he won't have to feel tortured to get the fz30 as he was waiting for your nod. Hope you find what you are looking for in a camera. Let us know how the FZ4 works out for you.
--

LaRee
 
atomicfish said:
Gil, any camera in your hands does well, those 4 would make me
want the 30 if I did not already have it! But knowing how you like
to shoot in digital zoom I can see why you would not keep the 30.
CA? I don't have as many CA shots with my 30 as I did my 20 one
thing though were you using a teleconvertor with alot of your bad
CA shots? . And what were your thoughts about the EZ modes? They
would lessen the need for digital zoom.
--
Jeff



Link for Gallery: http://atomicfish.smugmug.com
Click to expand...
LOL Jeff, I just posted and said almost the same thing. When I hit post, I see your post here. LOL
--

LaRee
 
I'm hanging on to my FZ20 until the FZ40 is introduced and reviewed. It would be nice if Panasonic would develop a zoom lens that is as versatile as the 2.8f, 430mm of the FZ20, maybe slightly larger, that could be used with a new stabilized 4/3 dslr. The Oly E500 would be more interesting if it was stabilized.

Raja
 
I do see the haloing and CA you pointed out in your photos, but when I went back and looked for it on the FZ30 photos I've taken, I didn't see it. As for CA, remember the old "Cormorant on branch" test that just used to cream the FZ10? I've shot Cormorants on that same branch with the FZ30, with no CA at all. If you saw this stuff in my photos, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to be told about it. Maybe I'll just go on harboring my happy illusions, but I'm quite happy with the FZ30.

When are you gonna post some FZ4 photos? That should be the low-noise FZ5, with all the rights and privileges of the FZ15, right? ISO 64, faster focus and burst, the whole magilla. Can't wait to see your results, especially since you've already put our RDS shots to shame with your splendid FZ30 BIF shots! ;-)
--
Not one to duck an issue...



EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty
 
It looks like you've got the respect you need to do such a post and not get flamed!

I was at Fry's on Saturday and did a side by side with my 15 and 30. When I shot the flood lamps, I also

got a lot of CA with the 30 and very little with the 15. The 15 was much cleaner but the 30 gave more detail
at 12x.

I really like the 15 but thought if the 30 was so much better (as a lot of 30 users report) I would get one!

I feel over all the 30 was better but only slightly better when it came to image quality. Givin this is a camera

and image quality is most important(to me), I felt a little higher rez with a lot more CA is not a good trade.

I was not even going to post my findings because of all the flaming I would receive, but when I read your
post I felt a responce was it order.

Dont get me wrong, I dont mind a flame from time to time but do not wish to hate or be hated on such a
good site.

--
Ben.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/love2drive
 
Thanks much. If you look at the two links I've posted, % of shots with CA or color issues was much much less than those without. Unfortunately I ran out of time as the first week was mostly overcast before I could do more test like w/o TC. I found the CA mostly on black birds at both easy and tough light conditions. Yes, I tried the EZ mode after noticing the relatively higher noise and CA in the DZ and looked pretty decent but sometimes may not be enough at some situations : ). The FZ30 return is not a rejection, just a contingency until I could evaluate further my options.
cheers,
gil
atomicfish said:
Gil, any camera in your hands does well, those 4 would make me
want the 30 if I did not already have it! But knowing how you like
to shoot in digital zoom I can see why you would not keep the 30.
CA? I don't have as many CA shots with my 30 as I did my 20 one
thing though were you using a teleconvertor with alot of your bad
CA shots? . And what were your thoughts about the EZ modes? They
would lessen the need for digital zoom.
--
Jeff



Link for Gallery: http://atomicfish.smugmug.com
Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
I love your Willet. My wife and I were discussing our living trust options during my posting/browsing of this forum and I lost thoughts on both counts. As mentioned in my response to Jeff, majority of the shots were CA free but some that I usually have less of suddenly increased. I may have to optimize further my settings or test w/o TC but ran out of return window. FZ30 is still desirable and I may wait for the price to come down after the holidays if my DLSR return won't materialize. Thanks much for looking.
gil
LaRee said:
I really like that last shot Gil. Funny you notice lots of CA with
the 30, that is one thing that I find improved at least over the
fz20 I own. Or maybe it is because I don't use a teleconverter on
the fz30 like I did all the time with the fz20. One thing is for
sure. You've made Gene (from Oregon) a happier man. Now he won't
have to feel tortured to get the fz30 as he was waiting for your
nod. Hope you find what you are looking for in a camera. Let us
know how the FZ4 works out for you.
--

LaRee
Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
but just so happened that my initial lens pairing (Tamron 28-300 Xr Di LD) didn't serve well my needs. Primes/better lenses are too expensive and bulky. Looking at the KM5D with the newer Sigma DG 50-500mm but I am being bothered by not seeing too many BIF taken with the KM 5D. Also read about findings of slower AF on the KM side compared to the Canons. With limited budget, can't afford to keep too many cameras : ). Yes, the E500 looks good but same CCD as the E300. Now with the budget silver FZ4S, will have more time to evaluate options.
cheers,
gil
rajacat said:
I'm hanging on to my FZ20 until the FZ40 is introduced and
reviewed. It would be nice if Panasonic would develop a zoom lens
that is as versatile as the 2.8f, 430mm of the FZ20, maybe slightly
larger, that could be used with a new stabilized 4/3 dslr. The Oly
E500 would be more interesting if it was stabilized.

Raja
Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
The CA and halos were mostly evident on DZ shots and black subjects. Going into the optical EZs and low settings minimizes it but still detectable in some. Maybe an effect of the TC or just inherent to the camera I have or my settings/shooting style. On your shots that I have seen, so far I only remembered noticing some bluish cast in one of the white birds - not sure if the egret or the gull. I may just have a bad batch or non-optimized settings and not enough testing time. Will check if the usual 30 days return from Frys applies to digicam.

FZ4 - love it. Cheap, silver and so far handling noise pretty good. As per your experience, the silver color (only available color) makes it a stealth camera. Took it to the Warriors/Knicks game last Friday (got some free tickets) and nobody gave notice. No, RDS is a good tool (like the DZ : )) and very capable as you and the others have shown. Will post some the next few days.

cheers and thanks much for viewing,
gil
John_Reed said:
I do see the haloing and CA you pointed out in your photos, but
when I went back and looked for it on the FZ30 photos I've taken, I
didn't see it. As for CA, remember the old "Cormorant on branch"
test that just used to cream the FZ10? I've shot Cormorants on that
same branch with the FZ30, with no CA at all. If you saw this stuff
in my photos, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to be told about it.
Maybe I'll just go on harboring my happy illusions, but I'm quite
happy with the FZ30.
When are you gonna post some FZ4 photos? That should be the
low-noise FZ5, with all the rights and privileges of the FZ15,
right? ISO 64, faster focus and burst, the whole magilla. Can't
wait to see your results, especially since you've already put our
RDS shots to shame with your splendid FZ30 BIF shots! ;-)
--
Not one to duck an issue...



EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty
Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
Ha!ha!ha! I guess it is just the way it is being presented. Though I have unresolved issues, the return is not a rejection but just a contingency. Actually I am getting more BIFs (see my test shot links where it is mostly BIFs) with the use of the zoom ring/higher EVF but were those much better than the ones I was getting from the FZ20/FZ5? Not really. Some users also reported seeing higher CA as well but most seeing almost none. Maybe a case of bad batch.

I guess if you will present your findings in a balanced way and accommodating responses in a postive note, flaming should not be an issue.

I will wait and further look into other options (tough with a limited budget). The FZ4S should be ok for now.

cheers,
gil
SnapJap said:
It looks like you've got the respect you need to do such a post and
not get flamed!

I was at Fry's on Saturday and did a side by side with my 15 and
30. When I shot the flood lamps, I also
got a lot of CA with the 30 and very little with the 15. The 15 was
much cleaner but the 30 gave more detail
at 12x.

I really like the 15 but thought if the 30 was so much better (as a
lot of 30 users report) I would get one!
I feel over all the 30 was better but only slightly better when it
came to image quality. Givin this is a camera
and image quality is most important(to me), I felt a little higher
rez with a lot more CA is not a good trade.

I was not even going to post my findings because of all the flaming
I would receive, but when I read your
post I felt a responce was it order.

Dont get me wrong, I dont mind a flame from time to time but do not
wish to hate or be hated on such a
good site.

--
Ben.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/love2drive
Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
a few days and missed this much awaited take on the FZ30 when it was fresh. I must say, I was hoping this would be a keeper for you but I'm kinda thinking, as long as you don't run out of places that let you keep bringing them back, you're having too much fun trying them all to ever actually buy one. Meanwhile, I'm happy you're getting the FZ4, if for no other reason than to keep you active on the panny forum. BTW, your pictures here and the album are stunning as always and I truly appreciate the critique even though it's not what I wanted to see. At this point, I think I'll look through John's, LaRee's, and other contented FZ30 owner's eyes and start talking to Santa about it. Unless I wait and see what what's next in the panny line. I kinda think you've help me decide against a dslr though----at this point.

--
Cheers, Gene (The one in Oregon)

Oly D-450 Z - DMC FZ1v2 - FZ10

 
that Gil's critique will have any bearing on my getting or not getting a FZ30. His critical eye is so much more finely tuned than mine that I cannot even see the subtle faults in his captures that dissatisfy him. I may still stall a bit longer and if I wait long enough the new model changes will be disclosed----I'm not finding anything worthwhile to shoot this time of year anyway. I do think, however, that I've decided against a dslr----too much hassle and I know I would suffer big-time, lens-lust that I don't want to put my wife through. Thanks for thinking of me..
--
Cheers, Gene (The one in Oregon)

Oly D-450 Z - DMC FZ1v2 - FZ10

 
Hi Gene,

Actually, it was only posted last night. I was quite late in processing the pics. I thought I wold keep it too but some issues I've seen I am not sure yet whether local to my camera or something else. Several times, I was one click away from going back to DSLR but when I think about the lens I need, the cost and the bulk always takes away the excitement. Will just enjoy the FZ4 for now. Thanks for dropping by.
cheers,
gil
rsrascal said:
a few days and missed this much awaited take on the FZ30 when it
was fresh. I must say, I was hoping this would be a keeper for you
but I'm kinda thinking, as long as you don't run out of places that
let you keep bringing them back, you're having too much fun trying
them all to ever actually buy one. Meanwhile, I'm happy you're
getting the FZ4, if for no other reason than to keep you active on
the panny forum. BTW, your pictures here and the album are
stunning as always and I truly appreciate the critique even though
it's not what I wanted to see. At this point, I think I'll look
through John's, LaRee's, and other contented FZ30 owner's eyes and
start talking to Santa about it. Unless I wait and see what what's
next in the panny line. I kinda think you've help me decide
against a dslr though----at this point.

--
Cheers, Gene (The one in Oregon)

Oly D-450 Z - DMC FZ1v2 - FZ10

Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
... and I am happy with it. Fortunately, I do not suffer from lens lust so ongoing expense should not be a problem for me. I bought the KM5D body and the KM 24-105 D lens and am very happy with it. I've only had a few opportunities to use it so far (due to family commitments) but I'm learning it. I'm really pleased with the low light capabilities and just the overall quality and color.

Some galleries for you to peruse should you choose:

http://katerk.smugmug.com/gallery/910372

http://katerk.smugmug.com/gallery/961519

All taken with default settings.

-- Kate
 
Those are great pics. I like especially nr 2 and 3. From your earlier posts we can see, that though better and better cameras are coming, the most important thing in fotography is the photographer self.
--
A little collection of my fotos: http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhlofst/



Cheers, Jussi
 
It just depends what you're using it for. If you're into landscapes and not doing extensive cropping, then you may not notice the CA and noise issues. As I seem to be stuck in the BIF rut lately I come across these issues more than most here (in optical zoom at 100% crop it's much more noticeable than in the previous cams) but I was warned about those in the review here and at dcresource but decided to take the plunge anyway. And you're right about the DZ; it's stupid that once you turn it on, it's ON throughout the entire range and in the pics I've taken with it the image quality is less than stellar. That was bonehead thinking on Panasonic's part ; they should've just kept it the same as on the '10 and '20. Having checked your FZ30 gallery I see what you mean about the haloing; I think the '30 at the very least needs to be "tweaked" more to handle lighting conditions the other Fluzis could successfully deal with, but so far I haven't come across it as much as you did --- or is it that I just can't see it? I also had problems with the regular AF at-or-near full optical; it would "hunt" and miss quite often. That's why I'm jazzed about the RDS as now being able to use the High-Speed AF for BIFs I work around the "frame freeze" and missed focus which of course still happens, but now it's more my fault than being a recurring camera problem. I'm still planning on purchasing a DSLR soon for the better feather details etc., but like Bill Algood and others here I'll be a 2-camera person, keeping the '30 for backpacking and hikes. Thanks for the expose (accent over the last "e") backed up with examples on the FZ30, and hope you enjoy your new FZ4.

Best Wishes,
Steve
http://trailhiker.smugmug.com

 
last summer and I like it. What I didn't like was my lens choice at 28-300. Moving to prime or L (I had the XT) was not a budget consideration. I am not turning my back yet from the FZ30. It was just that I ran out of time and thus more tweaking on the settings. Also my particular camera could be a bad batch if the issues I mentioned are not being seen by the majority of the user.

Yes, CA won't be much of an issue for non or low zoom shots but my needs would take me more to long zooms. Noise was minimal at optical range on stationary subjects but majority of my shots could be related to flight and thus some concern on this area. Though has no measured basis, the AF peformance seems to be or par with the FZ20/FZ5 as far as I could experience. Glad to know and see that you are enjoying your FZ30 with the RDS. More power to you.

cheers,
gil
sdwsp said:
It just depends what you're using it for. If you're into
landscapes and not doing extensive cropping, then you may not
notice the CA and noise issues. As I seem to be stuck in the BIF
rut lately I come across these issues more than most here (in
optical zoom at 100% crop it's much more noticeable than in the
previous cams) but I was warned about those in the review here and
at dcresource but decided to take the plunge anyway. And you're
right about the DZ; it's stupid that once you turn it on, it's ON
throughout the entire range and in the pics I've taken with it the
image quality is less than stellar. That was bonehead thinking on
Panasonic's part ; they should've just kept it the same as on the
'10 and '20. Having checked your FZ30 gallery I see what you mean
about the haloing; I think the '30 at the very least needs to be
"tweaked" more to handle lighting conditions the other Fluzis could
successfully deal with, but so far I haven't come across it as much
as you did --- or is it that I just can't see it? I also had
problems with the regular AF at-or-near full optical; it would
"hunt" and miss quite often. That's why I'm jazzed about the RDS as
now being able to use the High-Speed AF for BIFs I work around the
"frame freeze" and missed focus which of course still happens, but
now it's more my fault than being a recurring camera problem. I'm
still planning on purchasing a DSLR soon for the better feather
details etc., but like Bill Algood and others here I'll be a
2-camera person, keeping the '30 for backpacking and hikes. Thanks
for the expose (accent over the last "e") backed up with examples
on the FZ30, and hope you enjoy your new FZ4.

Best Wishes,
Steve
http://trailhiker.smugmug.com

Click to expand...
--
**************
Images or nothing.
http://art4less.smugmug.com
 
Gil, I found the same thing with BIF photographs using the FZ30. Still pictures were very good. Any subjects that were moving produced totally unacceptable photo's. Going DSLR was the option for me. I purchased a 70-200mm USM F.4 L series lens yesterday. I didn't get a lot of time but the few shots I did take........ the results are Jaw dropping.

Good luck on your quest. If anyone can make the Panasonic sing it would be you or John.

My aussie hangout.
http://www.users.on.net/~vmart/
 
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