Future of the "1.3X" sensor size in Canon dSLR cameras

It is my belief that Canon will not introduce any new EOS dSLR model with a sensor of the size we commonly describe as "1.3X" other than one which is an extension of the EOS 1D (such as, for example, one designated "EOS 1D Mark II N Plus", or such).
In that regard, I call your attention to my offer described here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=15852891

Best regards,

Doug

Visit The Pumpkin, a library of my technical articles on photography, optics, and other topics:
http://doug.kerr.home.att.net/pumpkin

'Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler.'

Doug Kerr said:

It is my belief that Canon will not introduce any new EOS dSLR
model with a sensor of the size we commonly describe as "1.3X"
other than one which is an extension of the EOS 1D (such as, for
example, one designated "EOS 1D Mark II N Plus", or such).
In that regard, I call your attention to my offer described here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=15852891

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

I agree with you, the only folks who passionalty need such a body, a 1.3x with high pixel density are bird shooters. Not a big enough audiance for a special body.

Maybe someday canon will fix the AF on the D20 successor.

Doug Kerr said:

Visit The Pumpkin, a library of my technical articles on
photography, optics, and other topics:
http://doug.kerr.home.att.net/pumpkin

'Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler.'

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus

Ben

"Maybe someday canon will fix the AF on the D20 successor. "
Sweeping statement or what?

Please define your terms so we all know where you are starting from.
--
Paul

So I am daft enough to think that when they say they are not going to drop the 1.3 they mean it.
My 20 Euros are down if the 30D is not a 1.3

Doug Kerr said:

It is my belief that Canon will not introduce any new EOS dSLR
model with a sensor of the size we commonly describe as "1.3X"
other than one which is an extension of the EOS 1D (such as, for
example, one designated "EOS 1D Mark II N Plus", or such).
In that regard, I call your attention to my offer described here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=15852891

Best regards,

Doug

Visit The Pumpkin, a library of my technical articles on
photography, optics, and other topics:
http://doug.kerr.home.att.net/pumpkin

'Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler.'

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

I do wonder Doug as we all dash into the FF arena if someone will in the future ponder the time when they could fix a £ 500 200mm f2.8 to a crop sensor and have a lovely 300mm f2.8 to shoot with, without having to spend the £3500 that it would have cost in film days.

I feel that the Sigma 12 - 14 and other lens designs almost cracked the need for good wide on crops , but its the other nd of the spectrum where the real money sits ........ fast long lenses make up nearly all the upper end of the expensive glass in the Canon range!

So..... is there an argument ( no not the only reason before someone screams) that good old Canon is hell bent to crack the FF chip market ?

I am inclined to guess that someone somewhere in their budget team noticed a drop in the sale of fast prime tele.

Hi, David,

David Martin said:

So I am daft enough to think that when they say they are not going
to drop the 1.3 they mean it.

Click to expand...

Is that an assertion or a question? It's punctuated like an assertion.

I am of course not (yet) qualified to assess your daftity.

Member said:

My 20 Euros are down if the 30D is not a 1.3

Click to expand...

Does that mean that if Canon introduces a camera designated EOS 30D and its sensor size is not "1.3X", you lose the bet?

And if, for example, they introduce a camera called the EOS 50D and its sensor size is "1.3X", the bet is still open?

Best regards,

Doug

Hi, k,

kciuk said:

I do wonder Doug as we all dash into the FF arena if someone will
in the future ponder the time when they could fix a £ 500 200mm
f2.8 to a crop sensor and have a lovely 300mm f2.8 to shoot with,

Click to expand...

I have no ideas what you mean by a "crop sensor". Do you mean any sensor of a size Canon now utilizes in an EOS dSLR whose dimensions are substantially smaller than 36 x 24 mm?

Or are you speaking of someone putting a 24 x 16 mm sensor they would buy someplace in some Canon body (so your 200mm f/2.8 would have the 300 mm full-frame 35-mm equivalent focal length that you seem to be speaking of)?

Best regards,

Doug

Visit The Pumpkin, a library of my technical articles on photography, optics, and other topics:

http://doug.kerr.home.att.net/pumpkin

'Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler.'

Doug Kerr said:

David Martin said:

So I am daft enough to think that when they say they are not going
to drop the 1.3 they mean it.

Click to expand...

Is that an assertion or a question? It's punctuated like an assertion.

Click to expand...

Same old same old from me, Goug, - just that the Canonn Spanish reps said in February that the 1.3 would stay, and the only sensible place for it is the 20D follow on, unless they were delibertely misleading their customers.

Doug Kerr said:

I am of course not (yet) qualified to assess your daftity.

Click to expand...

Doug Kerr said:

Doug Kerr said:

My 20 Euros are down if the 30D is not a 1.3

Click to expand...

Does that mean that if Canon introduces a camera designated EOS 30D
and its sensor size is not "1.3X", you lose the bet?

Click to expand...

I ain't a welsher or a nit-picker, Doug - the follow on to the 20D, what ever they call it, to be 1.3

Doug Kerr said:

And if, for example, they introduce a camera called the EOS 50D and
its sensor size is "1.3X", the bet is still open?

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

Paul Boothroyd said:

"Maybe someday canon will fix the AF on the D20 successor. "
Sweeping statement or what?

Please define your terms so we all know where you are starting from.

Click to expand...

I made it clear I was speaking from a bird shooters perspective. AF can never be perfect enough for shooting birds in flight. On the other extreme, I don't even need AF for landscapes.

Paul Boothroyd said:

--
Paul

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus

Ben

Doug Kerr said:

David Martin said:

So I am daft enough to think that when they say they are not going
to drop the 1.3 they mean it.

Click to expand...

Is that an assertion or a question? It's punctuated like an assertion.

Click to expand...

Not only is it punctuated as a statement, it's grammatically structured as a statement.

Doug Kerr said:

I am of course not (yet) qualified to assess your daftity.

Click to expand...

"daftity" -- I like that! It sounds much better than the usual "daftness."

Doug Kerr said:

Doug Kerr said:

My 20 Euros are down if the 30D is not a 1.3

Click to expand...

Does that mean that if Canon introduces a camera designated EOS 30D
and its sensor size is not "1.3X", you lose the bet?

And if, for example, they introduce a camera called the EOS 50D and
its sensor size is "1.3X", the bet is still open?

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--



See equipment list in profile.

n/t

The 1.3 format makes FF lenses "almost" as wide as with FF and significantly minimizes the sharpness and contrast issues at the outer reaches of the image circle with wider, brighter lenses. If you look at the MTF curves for most of the Canon L lenses, the 1.3 format does quiet well. Of course, future products may change my picture.
--
Leon
http://homepage.mac.com/leonwittwer/landscapes.htm

You all must have missed the interview article with the Canon CEO 4 or 5 months ago when he said that the 1.3x sensor will be discountinued (which is why the 8MP camera with the 1.3x sensor was only given camera feature updates and not more MP. It will streamline their R&D to concentrate on 2 sensor sizes.

Doug,

I think the point I made was quite obvious ....... Canon, other than FF produce 1.3 and 1.6 sensors, so if I refer to placing a 200mm f2.8 on a Canon other than FF it really would have to be one of those.

If your shooting low light and wish to be more selective in the area you view through your camera then a fast 200 would offer similar area to a 300 on FF. With the advent of 10mp - 12mp from a smaller CMOS it would be possible to be as close to the action (and working at similar aperture) with a 200 f 2.8 as it would on FF with a 300mm f 2.8 ........ the biggest difference would be the total cost of equipment.

5D with 300mm f2.8 around £ 5500

200D with 180 f2.8 around £ 1600

In a world where depreciation of equipment is a massive cost the nearly £4000 saving for a working , earning system is amazing. Before anyone shouts Troll .... I have never owned a Nikon camera and have used A1, F1, F1n, EOS1 Canons over the years to earn my daily bread. There is a hell of a lot of comment on this and all forums regarding fairly small margins .... to the self financing , money earning photographer with smallish turnover, the figure I mention above is hardly small.

When you look at the entire production process its sometimes better to get a grip on every day working reality, for example a recent cover shoot for an American magazine resulted in the printers of the cover having a hell of a rush to obtain the cover image file .... yes it was there on an FTP server awaiting their effort to download a large Tiff but time and their lack of effort required a Jpg produced to size and sent via E Mail.

So you can give me all the theory ........ several years of college and practice have shown me most of it ... but in the end its getting the job done and a profit margin in the bank that counts.

Regards

K

Ben_Egbert said:

I agree with you, the only folks who passionalty need such a body,
a 1.3x with high pixel density are bird shooters. Not a big enough
audiance for a special body.

Click to expand...

Not true. Maybe a lot of people reaalize the 1.3x crop is a ideal compromise. All my wide glass is still quite wide and my long glass gets a nice boost. I have less worries about vignetting than with FF, my viewfinder is still large and bright. The camera is a perfect all rounder and capable of excellent birding and landscape work. It allows one to still have a manageable file size compared to a 22MP FF monster. Nowhere is there a law that states that FF should be the end game or that's what we should aspire to. If anything the 1.6x crop format is the specialist birder format, because it's not a great portrait or landscape format.

I'll bet if the price of a 1.3x crop camera was the same as a 1.6x crop camera with similar features and identical pixel densities, 90% of people would go the 1.3x anyday.

n/t

Hi, k,

kciuk said:

Doug,

I think the point I made was quite obvious ....... Canon, other
than FF produce 1.3 and 1.6 sensors, so if I refer to placing a
200mm f2.8 on a Canon other than FF it really would have to be
one of those.

Click to expand...

Yes.

kciuk aka Ken60 said:

If your shooting low light and wish to be more selective in the
area you view through your camera then a fast 200 would offer
similar area to a 300 on FF.

Click to expand...

So did you mean that on either a 1.3 or 1.6 camera, the field of view would be something like with a 300 mm on an FF (actually, like with a 260 in one case and 320 in the other)?

Best regards,

Doug

There was an interview earlier this year of a Euro Canon exec in a Spanish magazine in which the exec said that Canon was going to consolidate to two sensor lines. With the introduction of the 5D and the R&D funds spent on developing the EF-S line of lenses, it would be logical to think that the 1.3x sensor would be the victim, not FF or 1.6x crop cameras.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

if possible can you point me (us) to this article...
I have to say, owning a 1dmk2 I like the 1.3 crop.

However I too have a feeling that it will be dropped and canon will produce FF for pro's and 1.6 "APS-C" for the less expensive non-pro camera's.
thank you in advance
am

I'm gonna hang onto my 1D until it dies, and fixing it no longer makes economic sense. I love the camera, its made me so much money, has taken so many great images. Its a classic, what can i say. 1.3 sensor makes alot of sense, to me that is.
--
Dan Brown

'If nothing changes, nothing changes'