EF-S..to buy or not to buy?

mlbriand · Nov 11, 2005

jdf said:
what a bunch of stupid people around here...why buy ef-s if you
know it will be obselete in the future? why not just by straight
away a FF lens? what's the advantage in buying an EF-S lens...in a
word optically and in quality NONE ZEO NADA NIENTE!
--
EOS 350D + Kit lens + Good eye
http://www.pbase.com/jdf_eos

You asked a question and we answer it. May be we didin't understand well your question. That don't make us stupid! Anyway, It seems that you already knew the asnwer to your question, so why post it? I stand by what I've said. If I need an EF-S lens I will buy it. If I don't need it anymore, I will sell it.

If I need to go full frame, I will buy one. But the XT does what I want (quality is excellent) and I don't see why full frame will give me more.

Courtesy is something to be learn we are not born with it.

Michel Briand

mlbriand · Nov 11, 2005

Jim Cassatt said:
I have decided to eventually go full frame, and hence am limiting
myself to EF lenses. Part of the reason is that I see Canon
dividing the world into two worlds, prosumer, APS, and serious,
full frame. Hence you may never see their best L lenses in EFs
sizes.

This is a crying shame. There is a huge size and cost advantage to
the cropped frame format. In addition to optical quality, there is
another characteristic that sets CAnon L lenses apart from the
rest. They are big and heavy. I have a wonderfully sharp 70-200
f4L. It is twice the size of my 100-300 USM. My 400 F5.6L does
not go with me very often because of its size and weight. It would
be wonderful if Canon would make L quality EFs lenses just to cut
down on the bulk. Since they use less glass, the cost should be a
lot less too.

Hi Jim!

Can you tell me the advantage to go full frame? I know you don't have the crop factor and the pixel count is higher. But the XT with it's 8 megapixel give you pretty nice and sharp picture. The good thing about the XT is that it accept EF-S, EF "L" lens. So we have the best of both world. I have both the 70-200 L f4 and the 400 L f5.6 lens and they give me terrific pictures. So for me I don't see the need to go full frame yet.
Thanks!

Michel

Hellashot · Nov 11, 2005

Unless it's the kit lens. Why buy a lense that won't go on a film camera or the 5D?

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

jdf said:
I was considering buying the 17-85 is EF-s lens...but i then i
realized that in doing that i was stuck with the 1.6 FOV...so what
are the lens choice? to buy an APS sized lens..or a FF lens?...I
think the near future all canon's will be FF..

nope...there are just too many of the EF-S lenses in the hands of people and just too many people who don't want FF. if they offer only FF, I am switching to Nikon!

for me and wildlife/bird photography, it is very important to have the crop factor..here is a comparison of 1.3x crop factor with 1.6x of the 20d..the pixel density help also but the crop factor give the 20d as much detail, if not better than the 16mp 1Ds..that is for bird photography we often can'T get the subject to fill the frame completely..then with a 1.6x we get much more detail in:

here is what happen if you take the same subect, with the same focal length and from the same distance:

20d:

1d II 8mp:

and 16mp 1Ds II

now this is why I will switch brand if they drop the 1.6x.

jdf158673 said:
--
EOS 350D + Kit lens + Good eye
http://www.pbase.com/jdf_eos

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

with FF and 16mm you might stil get vigneting. glad that'S not the case with the EF-S 10-22mm which is a fantastic lens..great color and contrast too.

alexeig said:
or even for FFF

And we shall enjoy the real wide angle with wonderful EF-S 10-22
meanwhile

I hope that you enjoy your waiting as much as I enjoy my lens

--
Regards

alexeig

http://www.pbase.com/alexeig

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

with a 1.6 crop factor camera, in order to get 16mm extreme wide you need the 10-22mm EF-S lens.

Hellashot said:
Unless it's the kit lens. Why buy a lense that won't go on a film
camera or the 5D?

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

just how many more mp can they cramp up a 1.6 crop factor sensor?

12? 16?

when the competitors will be at 16mp..Canon will have to follow and offer similar cameras.

what I am wondering is how much more resolution can they produce out ouf 1.6x crop factor sensor?

are we stuck at 8mp? 10mp? can we go up to 12? 16? what's the limit?

--

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Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

jdf said:
jdf158673 said:

WHY NOT? if it's better and it will have more quality why not?, i'm

Click to expand...

happy with my 350D but why not upgrade to something better? i
really don't understand you guy's...

for it is it simple..very simple enough...if I go full frame with my 400mm lens..I drop in fine detail that I can capture in my subject.

better image quality? no sir. check out my other reply in that thread..you will see that the XT and 20d with their pixel density and crop factor actualy get you MORE detail out of a same focal length, same lens and same subject distance..and no you can't get closer with birds..most of the time so that'S not even an option.

buying longer lenses is not an option either..too heavy and expensive.

anyway here is the article, it will open your eyes:

http://www.sphoto.com/techinfo/dslrsensors/dslrsensors.htm

jdf158673 said:
--
EOS 350D + Kit lens + Good eye
http://www.pbase.com/jdf_eos

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

jdf said:
what a bunch of stupid people around here...why buy ef-s if you
know it will be obselete in the future?

that's what stupid..statement like that when you have no clue what will be the future.

of course if we knew that in the future there would be only FF..then we would not be buying EF-S lenses..at least no expensive ones..but the risk of that hapening is not very big, as Canon woudl shoot in their own foot doing so.

why not just by straight

jdf158673 said:
away a FF lens? what's the advantage in buying an EF-S lens...in a
word optically and in quality NONE ZEO NADA NIENTE!

now you're making stupid comments..the advantage are there..for exemple the price.. why donT' you try to buy a 10mm lens in FF version and compare the price to a EF-S 10-22mm?

that will also open your good eye.

I already stated the advantages of the 1.6 crop factor..it's there and a major advantage.

jdf158673 said:
--
EOS 350D + Kit lens + Good eye
http://www.pbase.com/jdf_eos

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

jdf said:
jdf158673 said:

Let's just say..someone told me

Click to expand...

better ditch that someone then..I believe it was not God but an imposter.

it's a fever now..but when FF

jdf158673 said:
hit's hard...no one will even remember the "old" EF-S...and i'm not
talking about nikon or others too..i'm just talking about
Canon...it's way of competition will surprise everyone..soon

oh sure...lol!

jdf158673 said:
--
EOS 350D + Kit lens + Good eye
http://www.pbase.com/jdf_eos

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

fenella said:
Sarajean said:

life is short - buy, use, sell on ebay

thats the life cycle of lens

Click to expand...

Why? You buy it new then sell at a loss when you go FF, along with
all the hassle (and risk) of selling. Why not buy a new EF lens and
keep it for the rest of your life?

you buy it new, use it a lot and if you ever want to switch to FF then you sell it..you'll loose some money but you will also have used the equipement during that time. it'S not like you make it sound..you get something in return for your money.

of course if one is plannig to buy FF soon, then it's stupid to buy EF-S lenses beside the cheap kit lens.

--

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Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

Jim Cassatt said:
I have decided to eventually go full frame, and hence am limiting
myself to EF lenses. Part of the reason is that I see Canon
dividing the world into two worlds, prosumer, APS, and serious,
full frame. Hence you may never see their best L lenses in EFs
sizes.

what woudl be the use of that?? EF-S is only good for wide angle...the 10-22mm EF-S is every bit as good as L..colors, contrast, detail..it is as good as it gets.

now the telephotos is another story..the telephotos L lenses actualy have a BIG and gigabig advantage when used with 1.6 crop factor.

put these lenses on a 16mp FF and you actualy loose detail. put a 500mm f4 on a 20d and one on a 1Ds II 16mp from the same distance..you will still get a better image from the 20d 1.6x.

how is that for a good story?

Jim Cassatt said:
This is a crying shame. There is a huge size and cost advantage to
the cropped frame format. In addition to optical quality, there is
another characteristic that sets CAnon L lenses apart from the
rest. They are big and heavy. I have a wonderfully sharp 70-200
f4L. It is twice the size of my 100-300 USM. My 400 F5.6L does
not go with me very often because of its size and weight. It would
be wonderful if Canon would make L quality EFs lenses just to cut
down on the bulk. Since they use less glass, the cost should be a
lot less too.

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

http://www.sphoto.com/techinfo/dslrsensors/dslrsensors.htm

for me I see only disadvantages of going FF.. no compatibiity with our 10-22mm and loosing on detail when using my 400mm F5.6 L.

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

alexeig · Nov 11, 2005

I am surprized though at your interest in it, certainly it is not good for birds
--
Regards

alexeig

http://www.pbase.com/alexeig

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

alexeig said:
I am surprized though at your interest in it, certainly it is not
good for birds

I don't do just birds

I love landscapes too and the 10-22mm is a very creative lens..you can actualy get some funky shot of birds and animals with it too.

alexeig said:
--
Regards

alexeig

http://www.pbase.com/alexeig

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Sean Rose · Nov 11, 2005

photoguynorth said:
What I was expecting (and got) was a stupid response from Sean - he
has a history of personal insults whenever someone disagrees with
him - a reputation you seem to be working on as well.

What bothers me is people who don't understand a concept or product saying things that are NOT true. Then, they get miffed at a reply and say, "it's their RIGHT to have an opinion." Then they act like that right to opinion makes everything they say correct and worthy of reading.

Yes, you are entitled to an opinion. But this isn't an opinion. And you are still not right.

When you dispute facts and state completely false things like you are an authority figure (which clearly you are not - oops I did it again, -britney), that bothers me a great deal.

People come here for genuine help. You spewing lies about EF-S harms people wanting to understand their camera, EOS products and photography better. Your lack of knowledge is misguiding lots of people. Frankly, I don't mind calling you on it either. I don't come here to misguide people. And I have been on the receiving end of some of that advice. FAR too many people post on here like they know - when they don't. You should take a look at the thread again and try to see the string of people telling you the following:

EF-S is a scam. It's a way to sell cheap lenses for mad profit and then sell another lens if the consumer moves to FF. It is that simple. More lens sales equals more money.

Then entire EF-S and 1.6 sensor system is inferior to EF and full frame cameras. So why buy one? At least the 1.6 bodies are cheaper - but the EF-S lenses are NOT. Again, why buy one?

--
-Sean

Gallery: http://www.seanrose.com

photoguynorth · Nov 11, 2005

You were slow getting started but have made up for it with a proper personal attack. My faith is restored!
Thanks.

Sean Rose · Nov 11, 2005

Anthony de Vries wrote:
You are so off on these topics...

Anthony de Vries said:
Anthony de Vries said:

EF-S is cheaper to make,

Click to expand...

But not to develop ! And not to start a new production line!

OK. This simply is NOT true. Canon sells fewer EF-S capable cameras than EF. Every film EOS owner (and despite your very incorrect statement to the contrary - there still are A BUNCH of them out there) uses and BUYS EF lenses.

So the market is smaller. Why develop a new lens that costs more for a smaller market? Eh? Seriously? This is basic business logic. They don't make a new lens system that is MORE expensive to make that only targets the low end cameras. This is obvious and I'll leave it at that.

My 10-22 is made cheaply and I've not seen a single review give the 17-85 a better mark than the 28-135. You can take your performance claims and keep them - along with your EF-S glass. I buy glass to last me a long time - and my next body will be FF as I feel many here will do - and may not realize it yet. Buying EF guarantees that your lenses will still work.

Anthony de Vries said:
Analog SLR's are almost extinct.

Not hardly my friend. Not even really close. But if it makes you feel better... I do think DSLR is better than film. But that doesn't change the fact that many people still use their EOS film cameras.

Anthony de Vries said:
EF lenses don't fit on Nikon camera's. Is that a reason not to
buy EF lenses?

This is really just a stupid statement. Should I even bother with a response? How does this honestly help someone make a buying decision about an EF-S lens? I have presented several compelling reasons to NOT buy one, and this is your best reply? Are you serious?

--
-Sean

Gallery: http://www.seanrose.com

Daniella68313 · Nov 11, 2005

Sean Rose said:
EF-S is cheaper to make, Canon is charging premium prices above
what an equivalent EF lens costs.

Canon is charging premium prices avobe what the equivalent EF lens would cost? ok..find me a Ef 18-55mm that is 89$?

waiting.

The fact it won't work with all

Sean Rose said:
Canon cameras is a NO BRAINER as to why you wouldn't want one. Only
the 10-22 fills a void not covered in EF land and it's the ONLY
EF-S glass worth thinking about for that reason alone.

--
-Sean

Gallery: http://www.seanrose.com

--

Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

Sean Rose · Nov 11, 2005

photoguynorth said:
You were slow getting started but have made up for it with a proper
personal attack. My faith is restored!
Thanks.

Always glad to be of service.

Not very surprising either to see you have long since dropped pushing the EF-S thing on any merit other than I may have said something harsh to you. I guess I give in. That does make EF-S better than EF and worthy of everyone's hard earned money.

--
-Sean

Gallery: http://www.seanrose.com

EF-S..to buy or not to buy?

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