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D200 - Too little too late?

  • Thread starter Thread starter NL
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looks like a "dream" camera for the price. Packed full of features - the time lapse photography feature really caught my eye. That'd be fun. Animated gif's anyone? For the ambitious - 30-60 second sunrise to sunset video clips using 1000 or so images?

The common theme is that the neighsayers are all picking on things that they can't know anything about yet. ISO performance and AF speed for example.

ohh well,
Ian
--
http://www.ianz28.smugmug.com

 
I was expecting more from the D200 since it has been in the works for 3 years. The problem with this upgrade is that they didn't leave enough headroom for improvements on the D70 line of bodies. If the D200 stays on the market for 2 years, this means that the D70 upgrade will not have a feature set that betters the D200 during that time. Nikon needs to have differentiation between the two classes of bodies and there really isn't much room for improvement on D70 withough encroaching upon D200 specs. If you ask me, the D200 should have been the D70 upgrade and the D200 should have had a better feature set with 12mp, better focusing cam, cmos sensor, etc. D70 users, don't expect an upgrade for a few years!

http://www.pbase.com/shhe
NL said:
Considering that this camera will likely not be replaced for
another 3-4 years, I'm not sure it is enough and price wise it
needs to compete with the 20D not the 5D. My only caviat for this
statement is if the D200 turns out to have excellent ground
breaking high ISO performance (I'd be happy with a good noise free
6mp DSLR for my weddings)

I am a Nikon user and have a D70 and S3 pro kit. Being honest when
looking at the D200 other than shooting speed and iTTL I am
confident my S3 will deliver as much res and most likely more
pleasing images to the eye than the D200 and that is without
considering dynamic range. I also shoot landscapes for stock and
have been waiting for a digicam that is competive resolution wise
without weighing and costing as much as a house (D2x 1DS mkII) at
£570 the Sony R1 looks a credible alternative to the D200 (for this
type of photography only I am not advocating a digicam over a DSLR)
but as I have said on another thread my S3 is probably still better
than both of them.

8mp to 10mp is not a massive jump 8mp to 12mp is and at £1300 the
D200 looks expensive to me. The D100 was a competitor of the D60
and 10D, the D200 is a really in the same class as the 20D (and 30D
when it appears) I also predict that we will see a Canon 30D, 40D
and maybe even a 50D before we see a D300. This is not a Nikon vs
Canon thing but just something to consider for the enthusiast or
semi pro who wear out or replace bodies on a regular basis.

Don't get me wrong I may still buy one but I also may buy another
S3 instead. It's going to be an interesting few months.
Click to expand...
 
Of course D70 users will have an upgrade path...it's called the D200.

Seriously, if you gave the D200 12mp and better focusing (let's not judge it before anyone has actually used/reviewed it), there would not be a heck of a lot to separate this camera from the D2X.

Seems to me that a lot of people around here would only be satisfied if Nikon sold them a D2X for $1700. No...wait...I'm sure someone would complain that the camera would be too big and heavy.

Bruce
 
What was Canon thinking anyway, leaving OnStar out of their next camera design? Clearly this signals the end of Canon as we know it. Everyone will go back to film!

--
A 2005 Resolution for us all:
Shoot more, type less. : )
 
all you neighsayers are infuriating!!!! Your never happy or satisfied with anything are you?

a little annoying that the 10MP, Noise Performance, AF system....and whatever else you are complaining about hasn't even been seen by anyone! yet you already know it's not good enough!

give me a break. $1700. Did you really read the specs?

Your the type of person that complains about strawberry icecream or chocolate cake.

Glad I'm happy,
Ian
--
http://www.ianz28.smugmug.com

 
Adam Kmiec said:
While the price of the D200 can drop so can the price of the 5D or
the 20D replacement.
Click to expand...
I suppose. But the 5D is US$1600 more expensive out of the gate. That's a lot of price to drop. I'd assume that Nikon's got the ability to get the D200 down to US$1299 easily, but prefers not to do that. (Guys, there's a interesting connundrum we're dealing with here--If Canon and Nikon price too low and they aren't insanely profitable and thus don't benefit one iota from market leadership positions; if they price at a reasonable level everyone complains and wants price drops. I think Canon with the 5D and Nikon with the D200 are both showing that they'll be ahead of the price curve at the expense of profit in order to retain market share. Don't expect them to drop their pants, too...)
Adam Kmiec said:
I agree with your position that this is more
D2X than D70; although I'm bummed about the lack of a built in
grip.
Click to expand...
A grip is optional. Quite frankly, I hear more complaints about the size of the integrated grip bodies (both Canon and Nikon) than I do about lack of built-in grips. Try fitting a D2x or 1DsII into some of the fanny, chest, and even small backpacks.
Adam Kmiec said:
Pricing it above the 20D to
me negates the ease for canon switchers.
Click to expand...
Um, is it me or your English here? Pricing the D200 above the 20D negates the ease of switching from Nikon to Canon? I think you mean "doesn't negate the 20D's price advantage for those contemplating switching." Well, I'll have my 20D review posted about the time I post my D200 review (; ). Ignore the megapixel thing for a moment: they're not equivalent cameras.

And I'm tired of all the switching talk. We're far enough into digital DSLR-dom to know that Nikon and Canon are both going to continue to push the envelope and make good cameras. If you want FF, get a Canon and stop talking about it. Otherwise, I see no reason to get excited about one brand or the other--if you can't take great pictures at this point with a current DSLR from either it's not the camera.

My personal choice for my own work is a D2x backed up with a D200. But if Canon came along and said they'd give me US$1 million to switch, I'd be just as happy with a 1DsII and a 5D. I'd have to get comfortable with the different UI, and I'd be dealing with a different set of subtle image quality issues, but I'm pretty sure I could get the same pictures I currently get.
Adam Kmiec said:
I've said this before but the strangest feature is the integrated
wireless. Does it really appeal to prosumers and how can they
justify the inclusion when you have the wireless adapters for the
D2x selling for 600.00.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where you're getting the "integrated wireless" from. The D200 requires the optional WT-3 to do WiFi. This IS one area where the vertical grip question comes up: you can have the WT-3 or the MB-D200 mounted, but not both.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D70, D100, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
Dan said:
I was wondering if
you knew of a way to get those kind of results on a camera like the
D50, D70, or this D200.
Click to expand...
Not simply. The S2 Pro, for example, does what I call a double Hue shift, with both Reds and Greens skewing towards Yellow. The Nikon bodies only allow a single Hue shift, so if you rotate Reds towards Yellow, the Greens go towards Cyan. Green, BTW, is a "cue" color for and in skin tones. Thus shifting it towards Cyan is usually a bad thing.
Dan62326 said:
Is there any way to get that Fujifilm look without using a Fujifilm
camera? I wish there was a plug-in I could use in Nikon Capture or
Capture 1 that could emulate Fujifilm's color processing.
Click to expand...
Well, you could do the same thing I did with Velvia: analyze it's color response and then build a Photoshop Action that tries to mimic the "drift from accurate." Then set your camera to dead-on accurate and apply the Action to everything. That two-way Hue shift will be a little difficult to achieve, but it's possible.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D70, D100, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
NL said:
Good points Thom. I have heard good things about the D50 maybe
worth a look, would need to buy some new memory though as I believe
it does not take CF cards?
Click to expand...
Correct, it takes SD cards.
NL said:
The lack of MLU on the S3 is probably the only reason I feel the
need for another camera for my stock although opinion seems divided
as to whether mirror slap is an issue on the S3 (my images look
pretty good but then I have no comparison).
Click to expand...
For true landscape stock to compete, especially when you're a bit deficit on pixels (; ) you need to execute perfectly. The S3 Pro has DR going for it, and it's mirror slap isn't as bad as some models, but there's still a weak spot in the 1/2 to 1/15 shutter speed range that even a great tripod can't remove.
NL said:
I would say however that the Sony R1 does not need MLU as it does
not have a mirror!
Click to expand...
Yeah. After I wrote that I realized that it doesn't have a mirror. But the worry then is that you're using the sensor for preview and automation so you wonder how it's going to do in those pre-dawn situations where you might need a two second exposure. First, can we really get good viewfinder feedback in dim light? Second, will leaving the sensor active that long cause noise we don't see in the DSLRs?

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D70, D100, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
Karl Jacobs said:
Karl Jacobs191778 said:
For doing high-quality landscape stock I'll say two words: mirror
lockup. Neither the Sony nor the Fujifilm have it.
Click to expand...
Two more words.

Medium format.
Click to expand...
Certainly a very reasonable possibility. Sometimes I lust after some of the MF stuff that's out there. Certainly tilt-shift and more megapixels. But some of us put ourselves in places where MF is just too large to work with or too heavy to carry. That's one way we get those unique angles and pictures, actually.

One of the questions that Galen used to get asked time and again was why he used a 35mm body for his scenics and not a MF or large format camera. Having watched in the field where he managed to put his camera, I'd always laugh at those questions when they came up at seminars or lectures he gave. The answer is "you can't get that up there."

I don't think the R1 (and the upcoming prosumer cams from others that follow the APS sensor in a all-in-one body trend) is enough of a size change from a compact DSLR to allow use in places where I can't already get my DSLR (especially if I can replace my D2x with a D200 when scrambling up sides of mountains, etc.). The EVF seems useful at first, as it might allow me to place the camera and frame in positions where I currently lose use of the viewfinder, but I haven't really had the feeling I'm missing anything since I started carrying a right-angle finder.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D70, D100, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
yes, I'm surprised with the negativity here also. This is good for competition, good for all consumer interested in DSLR, regardless of which brand. Any time, a good product is release, everyone benefits. The D200 seems to be a great product. With so much at stake and the long lead time, Nikon would not release a dog. Imagine that soon, a near pro DSLR goes for less than 2K!

Only one thing, is it true that there is no MLU? Why? So inexpensive to implement.

--
if I made sense, I'm sorry
 
Thom Hogan said:
Yeah. After I wrote that I realized that it doesn't have a mirror.
But the worry then is that you're using the sensor for preview and
automation so you wonder how it's going to do in those pre-dawn
situations where you might need a two second exposure. First, can
we really get good viewfinder feedback in dim light?
Click to expand...
Landscape photographers got along with f/4.5 previews (and worse) on ground glass for years. So I suspect it will do OK considering that it should have some image pre-amplification. It should do better than existing small sensor fixed lens digitals. Heck, this could turn out to be an overall benefit. Only time will tell.
Thom Hogan said:
Second, will
leaving the sensor active that long cause noise we don't see in the
DSLRs?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that the sensor generates very little heat. The primary source of heat is the other electronics. Hopefully, the heat generating bits are placed away from the sensor. But there is really no particular reason for this to be much concern. I don't see any difference between cool mornings and 100 degree days in the Arizona desert with my fixed lens digitals that have their sensors on almost constantly for hours.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
Those are all landscape photos. In my opinion, they make the S2 look bad (although a saturation boost would help). I really like the way Nikon reproduces nature colors. I have a D50 and an S2 at this moment and I can't seem to let go of the D50 because it makes the outside look so good, but I am much more of a people picture person and no camera can touch the S2's pleasing colors. I guess I'll just have to wait for Fuji's next camera.

BTW, thanks for the link.
Martin Datzinger said:
Btw: D2X vs. S2Pro:
http://www.utopia-photography.ch/cameras/colors.html

Kind regards,
Martin

--
http://www.datzinger.net
Click to expand...
 
Thom Hogan said:
The S2 Pro, for example, does what I call a double Hue
shift, with both Reds and Greens skewing towards Yellow. The Nikon
bodies only allow a single Hue shift, so if you rotate Reds towards
Yellow, the Greens go towards Cyan. Green, BTW, is a "cue" color
for and in skin tones. Thus shifting it towards Cyan is usually a
bad thing.
Click to expand...
Ah, that's interesting. I tried adjusting the hue setting on my D50, but it didn't seem to help much. Does the S3 and all the rest of Fuji's cameras do this?
Thom Hogan said:
Thom Hogan said:
Is there any way to get that Fujifilm look without using a Fujifilm
camera? I wish there was a plug-in I could use in Nikon Capture or
Capture 1 that could emulate Fujifilm's color processing.
Click to expand...
Well, you could do the same thing I did with Velvia: analyze it's
color response and then build a Photoshop Action that tries to
mimic the "drift from accurate." Then set your camera to dead-on
accurate and apply the Action to everything. That two-way Hue shift
will be a little difficult to achieve, but it's possible.
Click to expand...
What is this Velvia that you mention?

And if I get CS2, what would this photoshop action do to perform this double hue shift? I have no experience in this, but am thrilled with the idea that it is possible. Then I can buy a camera based on its shooting performance instead of its JPG color performance.

Thanks for your help.
 
Yeah, all of them are blinded by higher MP counts, more focusing points, faster FPS, bigger buffer. They can't see that the D200 is a valid upgrade from those who already had the D70 and didn't want to upgrade to the D70s since it was pretty much the same. Nikon has pulled a fine move. They gave an upgrade path to owners of the original D70 and now have a DSLR to woo those who are clinging on to their film cameras with AI/AIS lenses.

The biggest feature of the D200 that no one seems to care about is AI/AIS compatibility!
 
Thom

Correct on the english comment. As for built in wireless it was my mistake. I was looking at the pre-release specs.
--
Currently refusing to upgrade until Nikon gives me FF.
 
LeeLove said:
This back and forth crystal ball predictions about what Canon will
come out with is a waste of time. Who cares !!!

If you are a Nikon shooter then I only care about what Nikon has to
offer me and the SYSTEM I have invested in. Everyone whined about
how long it has taken Nikon to come up with a replacement for the
D100. Now they announce yet another home run product and the trolls
come out of the woodwork to predict what Canon will do.

So if you want to go on and on about Canon then please go to that
forum and enjoy yourself. I for one could careless and I think a
lot of others here feel the same.

Lee

--
History judges great Photographers by their technique not their
technology.
Click to expand...
 
--The D22 is a Total Differant camera then the S3, S3 is a very slow camera. not in the same league as the D200. The S3 is only good for senery and weddings. You can't shoot 1800 photos on a single set of batterys, D200 can.The D200 is an all round camera. Can shoot Fast, Slow and everything in between . Don't get me wrong I almost bought an S3. But I shoot Sports with a D2H and this is a better option for me.You have to compare apples to apples.

papa85 ---(Tony)
http://www.pbase.com/papa85
Pbase supporter
 
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