Best photo organizer?

I don't see Elements as a "compromise" between iMatch and iView since these programs are all so different with apparently different target audiences. I would imagine pros would be more interested in iView or iMatch.

I am using Elements 4.0 (a try out), and right now I am leaning towards buying it, since it is noticeably faster than 3.0 on my machine. I like how fast and easy it is to tag and organize and search for files (it is now easy to search by metadata too), and the emailing options are nice too.

Everyone has such different needs so it is good they all provide try-out demos. The problem is trying to learn how to use these programs within the try-out period.

I may get the Elements/Premiere bundle so I can start working on video files as well.

Even if I stick with Elements for now, I will definitely be interested to see what the new version of iMatch will look like.

Thanks everyone,

Peter

I don't use Elements Organizer seriously, but, since it came free when you buy the editor, I gave it a good workout. I like a lot of things:

• Hierarchical tagging is very flexible and the UI for assigning tags and searching by tags is very good.

• Tags, captions, and capture date are written into metadata. Date and caption are written automatically. Tags are written on command.

• The image comparison view is about the best I've seen.

• The versioning feature is about the best I've seen--and there aren't many to compare with.

On the other hand:

• Elements 3 has a folder view, but there is precious little you can do there. It isn't really useful for maintaining your folder structure. I understand Elements 4 has improved this, though.

• Elements is much slower than any of its competitors. On a fast machine it is okay while working, but it is still ridiculously slow to start up.

• There are at least a half-dozen user interface issues that drive me absolutely crazy. I admit that I'm unusually sensitive to such issues, but I can't fix that. Instead I use iView MediaPro. Even though it doesn't have good versioning or image comparison features, its user interface works for me.

Interesting. Yet there are exif fields for comments and keywords. A test with ACDSee reveals that I can use the keywords in exif to search images, same as for IPTC.

So...since my camera information is already all there, why not simply stay with the one format?

Tom

Hi Peter,

Most professional photographers will use and recommend iView MediaPro (although this is mainly a Mac thing). Most amateurs will recommend IMatch.

I too like iView for the same reasons as Portola.

Like Photoshop, iView and Portfolio are targeted to professional users however most serious amateurs quickly have a collection as large as many pros. And like pros, amateurs have a vested interest in their photos; for pros it may be monetary, for amateurs it's emotional.

Portola said:

Instead I use iView MediaPro. Even though it doesn't
have good versioning or image comparison features, its
user interface works for me.

Click to expand...

PhotoPlus is only days away .

-- Robert.

Tom Matty said:

Interesting. Yet there are exif fields for comments and keywords.
A test with ACDSee reveals that I can use the keywords in exif to
search images, same as for IPTC.

So...since my camera information is already all there, why not
simply stay with the one format?

Tom

Click to expand...

I believe the keywords in ACDSee are not stored in the Exif, but in their database. Therefore, no other application will be able to display it.

I am also looking at iView Media Pro, and I really like a lot of things about it, but I can't believe you can't email photos from iView??!

I checked the iView forum and someone posted that there is a third party plug-in that does this, but it doesn't appear to work with Outlook (I posted a question about this on that forum).

I email pics from Elements all the time and it is great how it converts to JPEG, resizes, adds borders and designs if you want, etc. and doesn't save the resulting file - it just loads the pics in your email program and you hit "send."

Maybe emailing photos is too amateur a feature for iView to include, but it may be a deal-breaker for me.

Peter

I believe that Corel's Photo Album 6 supports keywords stored in IPTC. I haven't started using it in earnest just yet but that was one reason I purchased it. So far it appears to have a very friendly interface and all the functionality I need.

--
Rick

I own Iview Media Pro and it does MOST of what I need, but ....I still had to buy Imatch to write IPTC to CR2 files.

Carl

I am able to edit the exif information in the ACDSee properties dialog or with exifer program.

It just seems to me that if exif can do the same as IPTC, and has many more information fields than it would be easier to just work with that one.

I think what I would really like to know is, if exifer has comment and keywords fields and is searchable, than what advantage does IPTC offer?

Tom

Hi Peter,

peterm1 said:

but I can't believe you can't email photos from iView??!

Click to expand...

Unbelievable but true, iView MediaPro doesn't have an email function. There are various applescripts for it but no VB or javascript for Windows users. I sure a VB Script could be written for it.

-- Robert.

Hi Carl,

Carl Prentiss said:

I still had to buy Imatch to write IPTC to CR2 files

Click to expand...

Does IMatch write IPTC into CR2 OK then? I thought only Chris Breeze had worked out how to do that.

-- Robert.

RobertE said:

Does IMatch write IPTC into CR2 OK then? I thought only Chris
Breeze had worked out how to do that.

-- Robert.

Click to expand...

Robert,

It does.
BTW, thanks for your numerous and insightful posts on this subject.

Carl

It (EXIF) really meant to be about the historical snapshot of the camera settings and "read only" - or at best "write once" with respct to identity of camera person.

Nor does it cover the same range of info as IPTC when it comes to metadata tagging.

So don't confuse the two. ACDSee should support IPTC properly (ie batch writing/export) instead of people going messing about with EXIF

This is what IPTC gives you:
http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/imagedatabases/iptc_naa.html#IPTCchart

I'm not sure how you deduced that EXIF supports keywords, but I believe you are mistaken. ADCSee reads the EXIF into its database (as do some other apps) so you can search on it. The new version apparently reads existing keywords from IPTC, too. The keywords you enter, though, go into the database, and that's where they remain.

I'm speaking with assurance, but I haven't used ADCSee since 6.0. I'm really just combining my general knowledge from other posts, from trying out a lot of other software, and review of the IPTC spec. You may want to verify for yourself, but that's not hard. Just get IrfanView or similar program that can read/write metadata and you can perform experiments.

What doesn't Picasa do that you want it to? I am somewhat new to the photo organizing software arena, but I find Picasa to be simply amazing. Especially considering the price. I keep trying to find something wrong with it and can't. I guess one or two more shortcut keys would be nice (not having to right-click) but that is so minor I hesitate to even mention it.

Just to be nontraditional in here - I have switched to Adobe Bridge after using iMatch and then ACDSee, which is part of the Photoshop CS2 suite. It offers full IPTC support - or rather, full XMP support, but since that's what Photoshop uses it works well for me.

The reason I switched was the complete end-to-end workflow it makes possible. I shoot Raw and Bridge allows me to tag everthing with my metadata using XMP, which is stored alongside the Raw files (since Adobe treats them as being unmodifiable, which I agree with). When I convert to JPEG, TIFF, or PSD, or simply open a raw directly into Photoshop, the metadata is carried forward automatically and is stored directly within the resulting image file. I know of no other way to handle metadata so cleanly in a raw workflow.

To this mix, I have added PixVue. It operates as a set of shell extensions that makes Windows aware of Raw formats (e.g. allows generation of thumbnails) and it has full XMP support so that XMP can be viewed or edited directly from within Windows.

I haven't implemented it yet - but I've given serious thought to adding the MSN Desktop Search toolbar, since it has an optional iFilter addon for XMP that would make all of my metadata directly searchable from within the MSN desktop search.

Of course, this all works only if you are willing to shell out for Photoshop, since PSE does do this stuff. But on the off chance that you're considering PS CS2, give Bridge a try since it's free with CS2 and it has a lot of very nice features.

I should probably clarify this for the folks who haven't heard of XMP yet. It's a standard for metadata promoted by Adobe and included in the last three versions of Photoshop. It's XML-based and extensible, which means that any metadata can be represented in Photoshop. Photoshop actually allows you to create new editing screens to support additional metadata you might want.

In everyday use, though, I use the IPTC Core metadata set supported by XMP. This maps onto traditional IPTC fairly nicely.

XMP is stored directly within the image file for JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and DNG files, just like IPTC, except for Raw files, which are treated as read-only since they are not documented formats. For these files, XMP is stored in a "sidecar" file with the same filename as the image but with an .XMP extension.

In short, then - XMP is "IPTC the Next Generation" and is gradually being supported by applications other than those created by Adobe.

Hi Carl,

You may like to track down John Beardsworth. He uses Portfolio and has scripted it to write IPTC into RAW formats. Without giving the game away, John just might be able to suggest how to do the same with CR2 files in iView.

http://www.beardsworth.co.uk

One very clever chap and a pretty darn good photographer too! He frequents these forums as well as Rob Galbraith and PortfolioFAQ.com.

-- Robert.

Thanks Robert,

I generally make a practice of reading any post that John Beardsworth or yourself wite.
I'm a little disillusioned with IVMP right now.

1. 1) I would have thought there would be loads of scripts for the windows version by now. There aren't.
2. 2) No easy and/or switch in the search process.
3. 3) No IPTC export to CR2 (their "temporary" abandonment of NEFs hasn't escaped me either)

It is my belief that Iview should have addressed issues 2 and 3 with # 1.

I dislike having to ask anyone, especially a Portfolio user, as helpful as he is, to solve a shortcoming that Iview should have addressed months ago. I know there have been requests submitted.

In all fairness, these issues aren't essential to everyone and IVMP comes closer to the mark then anyone else so I will continue to use it. ( until something better comes along.) I will also continue to use IMatch as a back end for IVMP although I am suffering from "tool clutter". To make matters worse, I trialed photo mechanic and was amazed at the ease in which I was able to sort a 400 file group. Hmmm!

Thanks again,
Carl