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Ralph Gadsby
Guest
Ditto
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Noel Carboni
Guest
I don't mean to second guess your choice of camera, Mike, but perhaps you should consider an upgrade to a C-2500L. It beats the resolution of the 950 and the sleep timer is configurable.
Noel
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Eric
Guest
Hi Noel,
It is never too late to respond in this forum, isn't?
Please let me know if you were to be part of the Olympus
engineering team...I will make sure I'll buy one myself.
I intend to buy one camera at each Mega pixels improvement.
Olympus is certainly my favourite for the 3 Mega Pixels.
Having read what you mentioned,it really put me off quite a bit.
It is not easy to market a product like digital camera. One
simple solution, I suppose is to convince the comsumer that Mega
Pixel number has a direct relationship with quality.
It seems that no company yet dare to miss out using this simple
method, unless they prepare to invest a lot more resources on
promotion.
Eric.
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Noel Carboni
Guest
Nope. Happy to hear from you, Eric. I am sending a link to this thread to Olympus to make SURE they hear from all of us.
I'd love to do that kind of work; it would marry one of my hobbies and my profession (software engineering). I hadn't thought of sending a resume to Olympus. Thanks for the idea.
Yes. Unsaid is that each modern digital camera, for mostly marketing reasons, outputs an image with the same number of pixels as its CCD has cells, even though one cell does NOT capture enough information to make one true color pixel. I believe there have even been cameras with image sizes that EXCEED the CCD size. Sheesh.
One maker, so far, has broken slightly away from the "war of numbers", though they still generate an image exactly as large as their CCD: Nikon with their D1. It's claim to fame is HIGH QUALITY, considering for a pro model it has a relatively low resolution. I know a number of professional journalists, though, and EVERY one of them now owns a D1. They can see the difference in image quality.
Why don't the camera companies think we plain old consumers (prosumers?) can see that difference?
Noel
Jim King
Veteran Member
Noel:
Here's another late response (I've been traveling and unable to access the web for several days):
I agree with your manifesto for the most part but would add one very serious "want" - Faster response time after pressing the shutter to capture action! I know I
can cut the time by prefocusing but sometimes this can't be done because I can't anticipate the shot, or the 0.22 second delay after prefocus still too long to
capture the decisive moment. My Pentax PZ-1 autofocuses, meters and calculates exposure, swings the mirror up, and activates its mechanical shutter in much
less time than my Oly C2020Z does only the first two of these tasks. So please let's tell Olympus to "get the lead out" and cut the exposure cycle time!
Thanks for providing a forum for airing my pet peeve!
Regards, Jim
Here's another late response (I've been traveling and unable to access the web for several days):
I agree with your manifesto for the most part but would add one very serious "want" - Faster response time after pressing the shutter to capture action! I know I
can cut the time by prefocusing but sometimes this can't be done because I can't anticipate the shot, or the 0.22 second delay after prefocus still too long to
capture the decisive moment. My Pentax PZ-1 autofocuses, meters and calculates exposure, swings the mirror up, and activates its mechanical shutter in much
less time than my Oly C2020Z does only the first two of these tasks. So please let's tell Olympus to "get the lead out" and cut the exposure cycle time!
Thanks for providing a forum for airing my pet peeve!
Regards, Jim
This is not the first time I read about people using a digital cam for document and photo restoration. Is there a quality benifit to use a digital camera instead of a scanner? or is it just a portability issue?
I imagine a scanner has much higher resolution. Just curious.
I imagine a scanner has much higher resolution. Just curious.
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Mark Grebner
Guest
A scanner may be a good solution if you're talking about dozens or a few hundred pages of documents. In my work, I'm talking about a few HUNDRED THOUSAND pages, held in other people's offices, sometimes in bound volumes or on badly curled paper. There are three specific requirements for digital cameras to be practical for capturing images from typical black-on-white letter-size documents, and it was only about six months ago that all of them were met:
1) High enough resolution to capture an easily read image. This requires 55 pixels per inch of document, so 8.5 x 11 inches basically required 450 x 600 pixels or so. The Toshiba PDR-M4 (this is the wrong forum, I know) claims 1200 x 1600, but the truth is that it has 600 x 800 independent pixels. Plenty for documents up to 11 x 14. It doesn't work with a sheet that's 11 x 17, but the Oly C-3030Z - which I expect will really have 768 x 1024 pixels - will! Hence I've joined the Oly forum.
2) Capacity either on-board the camera or via transfer to permanent storage to hold 5000 images - a typical 8-hour day's work. The USB and transfer software on the Toshiba works pretty well for that purpose. I expect the C-3030 will be at least as fast and solid. The C-2020 lacks reasonable methods for handling that many images. Plugging and unplugging a card 100 times per day is not really practical.
3) Shot-to-shot cycle time of 2 or 3 seconds. I'm not talking about burst mode, or the number of shots that can be taken before the buffer fills. The PDR-M4 can actually put away shot after shot at about 2 seconds per. The Kodak DC290 sounded nice, but after I bought it I found that it took 34 SECONDS PER FRAME once the buffer is used up. I'm hoping the electronics in the C-3030Z will be comparable to the Toshiba, not the Kodak.
In addition, to the things I NEED, there are various things I'd LIKE. The Toshiba has a monochrome mode, but that's about all. The C-3030's whiteboard mode sounds interesting, but nobody has ever responded to my inquiries with any real information about it. It's supposed to offer a genuine b/w mode, automatic EV setting, and automatic macro setting - my employees have shot an amazing number of blurry pages by forgetting to select macro. Remote shutter may spare them from reaching 4000 times a day for the shutter button - if the 2-second delay doesn't turn out to make it impractical. Maybe the .JPG file will be a genuine monochrome, rather than (like the Toshiba) a color-neutral R-B-G image.
I'm not trying to preserve valuable old documents for future historians. I make my living capturing millions of names and addresses from paper records. My minimum standard is just clear enough to read without straining your eyes. Nothing artistic or pretty about it.
Thanks for your interest, and I'd appreciate any insights, advice, or warnings from C-2020 users.
-mark grebner
1) High enough resolution to capture an easily read image. This requires 55 pixels per inch of document, so 8.5 x 11 inches basically required 450 x 600 pixels or so. The Toshiba PDR-M4 (this is the wrong forum, I know) claims 1200 x 1600, but the truth is that it has 600 x 800 independent pixels. Plenty for documents up to 11 x 14. It doesn't work with a sheet that's 11 x 17, but the Oly C-3030Z - which I expect will really have 768 x 1024 pixels - will! Hence I've joined the Oly forum.
2) Capacity either on-board the camera or via transfer to permanent storage to hold 5000 images - a typical 8-hour day's work. The USB and transfer software on the Toshiba works pretty well for that purpose. I expect the C-3030 will be at least as fast and solid. The C-2020 lacks reasonable methods for handling that many images. Plugging and unplugging a card 100 times per day is not really practical.
3) Shot-to-shot cycle time of 2 or 3 seconds. I'm not talking about burst mode, or the number of shots that can be taken before the buffer fills. The PDR-M4 can actually put away shot after shot at about 2 seconds per. The Kodak DC290 sounded nice, but after I bought it I found that it took 34 SECONDS PER FRAME once the buffer is used up. I'm hoping the electronics in the C-3030Z will be comparable to the Toshiba, not the Kodak.
In addition, to the things I NEED, there are various things I'd LIKE. The Toshiba has a monochrome mode, but that's about all. The C-3030's whiteboard mode sounds interesting, but nobody has ever responded to my inquiries with any real information about it. It's supposed to offer a genuine b/w mode, automatic EV setting, and automatic macro setting - my employees have shot an amazing number of blurry pages by forgetting to select macro. Remote shutter may spare them from reaching 4000 times a day for the shutter button - if the 2-second delay doesn't turn out to make it impractical. Maybe the .JPG file will be a genuine monochrome, rather than (like the Toshiba) a color-neutral R-B-G image.
I'm not trying to preserve valuable old documents for future historians. I make my living capturing millions of names and addresses from paper records. My minimum standard is just clear enough to read without straining your eyes. Nothing artistic or pretty about it.
Thanks for your interest, and I'd appreciate any insights, advice, or warnings from C-2020 users.
-mark grebner
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Brian Pringle
Guest
G'day Noel!
Yes, I agree with you.
I use the C2020 solely for screen images, and never print out
my images. I reduce them all to a standard 1000 by 750 pixels,
so whether I am reducing from 3 mega pixels or 2 mega
pixels, I'm throwing away a lot of data.
I'd rather have a first-class 2 mp camera than a 3 mp camera
which is not producing a better image. I would even suggest
that for most of the users on this forum, who seem (like me) to be
advanced home photographers and not professionals, a
2 mp camera which had been refined and improved would be
of more use than the 3030.
However I suspect (and hope) that camera makers will be
heading towards affordable SLR digital cameras. The C2020
has one of the best menu systems, but I would still like the
ease of changing f-stops by turning a ring on the lens.
I would also like not to have to use an LCD, which much
of the time I can't see in the sun.
Sometimes I miss my 28-year old Asahi Pentax, and I hope
some day to see digital technology in a camera as easy to
use as that was, and under $1,000.
I hope Olympus have read this thread.
BRIAN
Avery Minor
New member
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First of all I agree with Noel about the need for quality from Olympus. The comments there also expressed my major problems with the 2500. A little quality control would be nice as well.
Second, as noted, I chose to keep the 2500 over the 2020. Primarily for the reasons Noel listed.
Although color fringing has not been a problem for me, I would like to find a higher power telephoto lens to use with the camera where fringing could be amplified.
I also have the standard add-on lenses for the D600 which work with the 2500.
I harbor the notion that Olympus will stand behind the 2500 and remedy its problems.
Second, as noted, I chose to keep the 2500 over the 2020. Primarily for the reasons Noel listed.
Although color fringing has not been a problem for me, I would like to find a higher power telephoto lens to use with the camera where fringing could be amplified.
I also have the standard add-on lenses for the D600 which work with the 2500.
I harbor the notion that Olympus will stand behind the 2500 and remedy its problems.
5000 shots a day!?! interesting job. Bet you don't take pictures when you go on vacation. Reminds me of a character I read about once. Working as a bouncer in a stripe club, this guy lost all interest in naked female bodies. Maybe that's why we pick jobs we hate 
Back to camera talk. Keep an eye out for the microdrives. They are up to 340M now. I wonder if 3030Z has the right memory slot for it. I know the S20 has type II slot for microdrives.
Thanks for the info.
Mark Grebner wrote:
[...]
Back to camera talk. Keep an eye out for the microdrives. They are up to 340M now. I wonder if 3030Z has the right memory slot for it. I know the S20 has type II slot for microdrives.
Thanks for the info.
Mark Grebner wrote:
[...]
[...]
Yes, you are right.
We all miss the good old feelings so attached to our old used camera.
With the old camera , I can film with more ease and speed than the new
digital camera.
Unless I film in the full auto mode, then I must admit
I spend more time looking at the camera than spending time more worthy
composing a better picture.
If camera manufaturer can put in more info in the viewfinder than on
the LCD, then less time is wasted.
Is there any new technology to replace the LCD ?
Your suggestion is well worth considering.
Eric.
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Barry Carter
Guest
Eric, I also have several of the "old" 35 mm SLRs, darkroom equipment to boot, and haven't used them in years (relics of the past). The digital cameras (although I do miss the interchangeable lenses...but that's coming) do not have to be difficult. There is a rogram option if what you desire is speed. But except for action pictures, I have never desired speed when out on a photography "hunt". I find it takes a great deal of patience to get great stuff. Also, the time spent in taking pictures, is saved in the viewing and processing. I love the ability to "pop" a SM card from the camera, and start viewing my efforts immediately on my laptop. Sorry Eric, I believe the good ole photography days is now and yet to come. How nice to be able to see the plethora of photos from all over the world; the result of digital photgraphy. It's a beautiful thing IMO.
Ciao...Barry
Ciao...Barry
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