Snow Photography advice needed

Hey gang, I'm going to try something new this year. Here in NW ORegon we have a place called Mt. Hood. This is the premier skiing and snowboarding area for Oregon (with Mt. Bachelor near Bend,OR coming in a close 2nd and 1st on many skiiers lists) Anyway, this year instead of being on the board killing myself I'm going to snowshow up to the pipes and terrain parks and do some shoots. I have a few friends that are pretty good and can direct me to places, but I wanted to tap the forum as a resource for experience in shooting under these conditions.

So far I'm going to be bringing my 10D, 17-40, 70-200 2.8 nonIS, and 100-400 4.5. I'll probably bring the pod as heavy as it is but may opt to trade out to the monopod.

It's going to be cold, I'm hoping for some sunny days but realistically they will be few and far between. So what's the advice you'd give me? I know enough to be careful about temperature inversions when walking indoors, but other than that I don't have much cold or inclement weather experience. So what's up with the snow? Thanks in advance.

--
http://www.meucciphotographic.com

If you're shooting during the bright daylight then you'll have to make a choice about the snow: over-expose the snow and have well-lit subjects or expose for the snow and brighten your subjects later in PhotoShop. If you choose the second option, then you'll be getting blazing shutter speeds. In this case, the 70-200 f/2.8 might be redundant; you could just use the 100-400.

to read all of the light reflecting from the snow and underexpose with the result being gray snow. If you want white snow increase exposure. Increased exposure will darken subjects in front of the snow so use a fill flash when you are able or partial metering on the subject when you can't use fill flash. If you're taking photos of people it works best to have a short foreground of snow with mountains, trees and sky behind them as opposed to the white snow of the mountain. As a practical matter there's very little detail in snow so contrary to the adage "expose to the right" of the histogram blowing some highlights with a snowy scene is less noticeable than blowing out skin tones. Take something to drape over your head and camera if you want to review the histograms on the mountain, it's bright out there. Have people take off their goggles but let their eyes adjust to the brightness before shooting. If they're all adults don't create a pyramid with a skier on their skis with the tips of their skis on one skiers shoulders and tails on another. They'll die trying. After a day of shooting you should get the hang of it.

Living in Canada, I get to spend a lot of the year shooting in the snow.

First tip is exposure. If snow covers most of your scene, then the camera's meter will try to make it mid-gray. If using manual, overexpose by as much as 2 stops to get white snow (depending on how much snow there is in the scene, and how bright a day it is). If using Av or Tv, then use the exposure compensation to get the same result.

The other responders have suggested that overexposing to get white snow will cause your subject to darken. Unless I'm not understanding their meaning, then I don't think that's right. If you've metered correctly to get the snow the right colour, then your subject should also be right (or very close). However, a fill flash still doesn't hurt.

Snow is white (unless there's a dog nearby), with very little detail. Don't worry about blowing the highlights, provided those highlights are just the snow.

Depending on how cold it is, your batteries will fail very early. They're not actually out of power, just too cold to deliver it. I carry two sets of batteries, one set in the camera, and one set in an inside pocket. When the batteries in the camera die, swap them with the warm ones in your pocket. By the time those ones die, the first set will have warmed up enough to be put back in the camera. Keep swapping back and forth, and you should be able to shoot all day.

If you're going to use a monopod or tripod, either get some snow feet (big circles that go on the feet of the mono/tripod), or push it right down into the snow. Snow is soft, and doesn't make a good steady base.

--
...Mike
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Trying to work my way up to rank amateur

PBase Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mikealex
PhotoSIG: http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=176063

a full two stops of exposure compensation is generally recommended when snow is the major component of your photograph. You may blow out some specular highlights where sun hits the snow, but if the rest of the photograph is well balanced, you can live with that.

-Michael

Hey thanks to everyone! I had imagined I'd need tyo bring 3 coffee saucers for the pod feet. I wonder if that'll work. I'm not really certain that I'm going to need the pod anyway with what you have told me.

Even if it's gray, which up here it most certainly will be most of the time, it should still be bright enough because I simply wont be out in blizzards. Ok so to sum up, overexpose to get white snow, and use some fill flash if/when possible. I guess the bottom bottom line is experiment, which I had thought I'd be doing anyway.

Does anyone have any protection advice? Do I need to put the camera in a baggie? I wouldn think probably not. Mike thanks for the tips on the batteries... here's goes another 100 bucks on a couple BP511s. I only have 2 right now.. lol

mo money mo money mo money...

http://www.meucciphotographic.com

There's no need to put your camera in anything while you're using it. It can handle a bit of snow on it.

But, when you take it inside, after being out in the cold for awhile, you should put it in a sealed baggie, or something like that, to prevent condensation from developing on it. Leave it in there for an hour or so, until it's close to room temperature.

Another point, I forgot to mention - tripods get cold! One of mine has foam on the legs, so it's not bad. I wrapped the legs on the other one with hockey tape, which helps a bit, but best to wear gloves when handling it.

--
...Mike
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Trying to work my way up to rank amateur

PBase Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mikealex
PhotoSIG: http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=176063

The overexposure advice makes sense, but the fill flash doesn't... of course, fill flash can't hurt I suppose, but a snowfield acts like a giant reflector, lighting the subject quite well usually. Now, if the sun is at a harsh oblique angle, and you're shooting into it, you could try fill flash to light your subject, but it's not likely to do very much.

Plus, if your flash contacts get wet from melting snow, you're kind of screwed in the flash dept.

Actually, at Timberline, you'll mostly be shooting in a backlit or sidelit or "indirect lit" situation.

-Jonathan

--
http://www.phlumf.com

Nice.. local ka nowledge (to quote King Ad Rock)

But I thought the terrain park and pipe were better at Meadows???

I never got far off Pucci at Timberline because a 6'7" guy on a Ride Mountain 172 gets moving at about 417 mph if given the snow...almost killed a kid who crossed my path.

jjl said:

The overexposure advice makes sense, but the fill flash doesn't...
of course, fill flash can't hurt I suppose, but a snowfield acts
like a giant reflector, lighting the subject quite well usually.
Now, if the sun is at a harsh oblique angle, and you're shooting
into it, you could try fill flash to light your subject, but it's
not likely to do very much.

Plus, if your flash contacts get wet from melting snow, you're kind
of screwed in the flash dept.

Actually, at Timberline, you'll mostly be shooting in a backlit or
sidelit or "indirect lit" situation.

-Jonathan

--
http://www.phlumf.com

Click to expand...

--
http://www.meucciphotographic.com

Oh ya... meadows, I wasn't thinking... Anyway, I don't snowboard, just snowshoe, hike, climb, etc. Nothing against snowboarders though, I just never had the time to learn.

One other thing... when taking your camera from a very cold environment to a warm one (i.e. your car, the lodge, or even a warm camera case) be very cautious about condensation. I'm not sure if someoene else mentioned this or not. If you zip it up in a bag outside, then wait till the temps equalize (which can take a long time) to remove it, that will help. The worst would be to get condensation inside, then let the camera re-freeze. Ouch.

-Jonathan

--
http://www.phlumf.com

what bags do you use that will fit your 70-200 with a consumer+bg/pro body...

Mike Alexander said:

There's no need to put your camera in anything while you're using
it. It can handle a bit of snow on it.

But, when you take it inside, after being out in the cold for
awhile, you should put it in a sealed baggie, or something like
that, to prevent condensation from developing on it. Leave it in
there for an hour or so, until it's close to room temperature.

Another point, I forgot to mention - tripods get cold! One of mine
has foam on the legs, so it's not bad. I wrapped the legs on the
other one with hockey tape, which helps a bit, but best to wear
gloves when handling it.

--
...Mike
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Trying to work my way up to rank amateur

PBase Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mikealex
PhotoSIG: http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=176063

Click to expand...

--
http://www.raegoul.org

I was thinking of using a "Seal-A-Meal" bag with the end cut out. They make them in rolls of 50 feet, you can just cut it off to length. These bags are incredibly strong, almost tear proof, and would keep most moisture completely out. As for width, they're about a foot across when laid flat.

Raegoul said:

what bags do you use that will fit your 70-200 with a
consumer+bg/pro body...

Click to expand...

http://www.meucciphotographic.com

One for the body, one for the lens.
--
...Mike
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Trying to work my way up to rank amateur

PBase Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mikealex
PhotoSIG: http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=176063

... if I have a bag of stuff, I put the whole bag in a garbage bag, and tie the end.

(sorry for double post)

--
...Mike
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Trying to work my way up to rank amateur

PBase Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mikealex
PhotoSIG: http://www.photosig.com/go/users/view?id=176063

Pause a bit before you laugh at me, but if I were you, I'd also buy myselves a pair of women's lyrca gloves. Thou would not believe how much warmth they provide despite their apparent lack of thickness.

You also don't have to take those gloves off while you press your camera buttons as you would have to with other gloves.

And if it's toooooo cold, then wear another pair of woollen mittens with foldable padding and exposed finger tips (I hope I've described them properly - here's a good example:



).

Need to flip off the padding to take a picture, and once you are done, you can flip it back for some more warmth again.

Nothing that a few weeks of sustained -45C in Montreal won't teach you though

Regards,
-Ashutosh
http://rajekar.ca
http://www.photo.net/photos/asr

Be careful about white balance if you're shooting JPEG. I've had many a JPEG come out blue because I forgot to manually white balance. If you use auto white balance, you often get a strong blue tinge to your images because snow is actually quite blue--not white, surprisingly (when was the last time you saw a pristine white lake? Same idea--water absorbs light more in the reds and yellows than in the blues.).

Of course, if you're shooting RAW, this is largely a moot point.

1...Keep your spare batteries in a inside pocket of your coat. Cold batteries take less shots.

2...You might want to bring some of those instant hand warmer thingies. I prefer the reusable ones (got to save money for more gear of course!). One strapped to the bottom of the camera can help keep the camera working if it gets too cold out. I usually wrap the camera in my scarf with a hand warmer or two when I really need it. You should see some of the looks on people's faces when they see a big red fuzzy thing with a fully extended 100-400L sticking out of it.

As for shooting:

Try AEB(auto-exposure bracketing).

You can set the amount of over and under exposing the camera will do. If you do, set the drive mode to continuous shooting and just hold down the shutter release. It will take 3 shots in around 1/2 a second and stop. With the shots having different exposure levels, you can usually combine a couple of them to get the look you want. As for the amount to use, this will depend greatly upon what you are shooting.

Shoot raw (with or without a jpeg).

This is so you can fix the white balance afterwards. The white balance can and will change often and often quite unpredictably.

After shooting:

A standard UNUSED kitchen garbage bag will work fine to protect the camera from condensation. Just make sure nobody takes out the "garbage".

--
http://www.pbase.com/exclavieor/galleries

Ouch! thats what.. -13f down here? Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

http://www.meucciphotographic.com

Awesome advice, thanks! I cant wait to come back to this thread with pics....

JustMichael said:

1...Keep your spare batteries in a inside pocket of your coat.
Cold batteries take less shots.

2...You might want to bring some of those instant hand warmer
thingies. I prefer the reusable ones (got to save money for more
gear of course!). One strapped to the bottom of the camera can
help keep the camera working if it gets too cold out. I usually
wrap the camera in my scarf with a hand warmer or two when I really
need it. You should see some of the looks on people's faces when
they see a big red fuzzy thing with a fully extended 100-400L
sticking out of it.

As for shooting:

Try AEB(auto-exposure bracketing).
You can set the amount of over and under exposing the camera will
do. If you do, set the drive mode to continuous shooting and just
hold down the shutter release. It will take 3 shots in around 1/2
a second and stop. With the shots having different exposure
levels, you can usually combine a couple of them to get the look
you want. As for the amount to use, this will depend greatly upon
what you are shooting.

Shoot raw (with or without a jpeg).
This is so you can fix the white balance afterwards. The white
balance can and will change often and often quite unpredictably.

After shooting:

A standard UNUSED kitchen garbage bag will work fine to protect the
camera from condensation. Just make sure nobody takes out the
"garbage".

--
http://www.pbase.com/exclavieor/galleries

Click to expand...

--
http://www.meucciphotographic.com

Todd,

Last winter I had just got my camera and decided I would take it snowboarding with me. At the time, all I had was the ?-300mm lousy kit lens. (its in a box now) I tucked it in my jacket and off I went. I got some fun pics, but not real great quality. Now I have the 70-200 f2.8 and I plan to do the same thing this year. It will be entertaining as this lens is heavier and bigger. Its a double edge sword, I look like I have a huge chest , on the other hand if I wipe out and land chest first it will be "good night Irene" all my ribs will be broken! What we will do for pictures...
Debbie
'critiques are welcome..and needed.'