OTF metering of the OM system.

will it ever show up in the E-system lineup?

I always found it to be a neat feature on the OM2sp and OM4 and used it a lot with great results.

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go out and enjoy the sun instead....

OTF = Off the film!

How do you do it? With the light bounced off the sensor???

Olympus have had "crazy" ideas all the time. And they have
never been afraid of implementing them. The old OM-2 was
way much better than the Canon and Nikon of its time,
with respect to OTF metering. I think ESP metering also
came from the om system: om-40?

heavyweather said:

will it ever show up in the E-system lineup?
I always found it to be a neat feature on the OM2sp and OM4 and
used it a lot with great results.

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go out and enjoy the sun instead....

Click to expand...

I don't know how it was done in the OM series.

"Its unique and proprietary integrated OTF Direct Metering System for ambient light and flash metering first seen and used on the OM-2 in 1975 is still unmatched and hard to duplicate after 25 years since its introduction."

it says on the mir website.

The metering was done during the exposure...for flash and ambient light.

you can shoot any flash off the camera and it will stop the exposure at the time enough light hit the film..combined with any metering mode (spot, middle,...)

it would mean no preflash, saving batteries and pre-metering for second curtain flash sync...

I'll try to get my hands on a OM40 body...
ESP sounds like fun...

Bao Ha said:

How do you do it? With the light bounced off the sensor???

Olympus have had "crazy" ideas all the time. And they have
never been afraid of implementing them. The old OM-2 was
way much better than the Canon and Nikon of its time,
with respect to OTF metering. I think ESP metering also
came from the om system: om-40?

heavyweather said:

will it ever show up in the E-system lineup?
I always found it to be a neat feature on the OM2sp and OM4 and
used it a lot with great results.

******************************
go out and enjoy the sun instead....

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
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go out and enjoy the sun instead....

It basically measures the light reflected off the film plane during
the exposure. It's real time! The CPU can react to changing
light situations and decide when to close the shutter. It was
innovative at its time, but not anymore.

ESP on the om-40 was some sorts of matrix metering. I think digital
ESP is just some later modifications of the ESP algorithms of the
om-40.

heavyweather said:

"Its unique and proprietary integrated OTF Direct Metering System
for ambient light and flash metering first seen and used on the
OM-2 in 1975 is still unmatched and hard to duplicate after 25
years since its introduction."

it says on the mir website.

The metering was done during the exposure...for flash and ambient
light.
you can shoot any flash off the camera and it will stop the
exposure at the time enough light hit the film..combined with any
metering mode (spot, middle,...)

it would mean no preflash, saving batteries and pre-metering for
second curtain flash sync...

I'll try to get my hands on a OM40 body...
ESP sounds like fun...

Bao Ha said:

How do you do it? With the light bounced off the sensor???

Olympus have had "crazy" ideas all the time. And they have
never been afraid of implementing them. The old OM-2 was
way much better than the Canon and Nikon of its time,
with respect to OTF metering. I think ESP metering also
came from the om system: om-40?

heavyweather said:

will it ever show up in the E-system lineup?
I always found it to be a neat feature on the OM2sp and OM4 and
used it a lot with great results.

******************************
go out and enjoy the sun instead....

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
******************************
go out and enjoy the sun instead....

Click to expand...

I think Pentax *ist D does it like that - measures light reflected off the sensor.

It's only used for flash photography.

Bao Ha said:

It basically measures the light reflected off the film plane during
the exposure. It's real time! The CPU can react to changing
light situations and decide when to close the shutter. It was
innovative at its time, but not anymore.

ESP on the om-40 was some sorts of matrix metering. I think digital
ESP is just some later modifications of the ESP algorithms of the
om-40.

Click to expand...

It makes no difference in the digital world now, since the sensor
knows how much light it gets.

BorisK1 said:

It's only used for flash photography.

Bao Ha said:

It basically measures the light reflected off the film plane during
the exposure. It's real time! The CPU can react to changing
light situations and decide when to close the shutter. It was
innovative at its time, but not anymore.

ESP on the om-40 was some sorts of matrix metering. I think digital
ESP is just some later modifications of the ESP algorithms of the
om-40.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Bao Ha said:

It makes no difference in the digital world now, since the sensor
knows how much light it gets.

Click to expand...

Nope. In DSLRs, the sensor doesn't see the light until the shutter opens, and it doesn't have an ability to stop the exposure that's already in progress. All DSLRs have separate light sensors. Fixed-lens cameras are a different story.

Measuring flash off the film/sensor plane has several advantages. For example, it eliminates preflash - meaning that your flash only needs half the time to recycle, its batteries last twice as long, and you don't have half-closed eyes (some people has fast enough reaction time to blink after the preflash). The big problem, of course, is that the sensor surface is "glossy", unlike film. If senser manufacturers can address this, then flash photography will improve a lot.

But most likely, they will go the other way - allow the sensor to measure light during the shot, and shut off the flash when there was enough light. Or, when sensors with higher DR come out, overexposure will no longer be an issue, and setting flash duration will not be as important.

Boris

Bao Ha said:

BorisK1 said:

It's only used for flash photography.

Bao Ha said:

It basically measures the light reflected off the film plane during
the exposure. It's real time! The CPU can react to changing
light situations and decide when to close the shutter. It was
innovative at its time, but not anymore.

ESP on the om-40 was some sorts of matrix metering. I think digital
ESP is just some later modifications of the ESP algorithms of the
om-40.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

BorisK1 said:

Measuring flash off the film/sensor plane has several advantages.
For example, it eliminates preflash - meaning that your flash only
needs half the time to recycle, its batteries last twice as long,
and you don't have half-closed eyes (some people has fast enough
reaction time to blink after the preflash).

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking off.

It is also a very good solution for long exposures under changing light conditions.

I have never experienced somebody blinking after the preflash (I did about 50.000 close up pictures of people this year!!)
but OTF would make 2nd curtain flash possible for longer exposure portraits...
I once tried that with 1/4 ...2nd curtain sync and all eyes are closed

heavyweather said:

heavyweather said:

Measuring flash off the film/sensor plane has several advantages.
For example, it eliminates preflash - meaning that your flash only
needs half the time to recycle, its batteries last twice as long,
and you don't have half-closed eyes (some people has fast enough
reaction time to blink after the preflash).

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking off.

It is also a very good solution for long exposures under changing
light conditions.

Click to expand...

Long exposures are a grey area anyway. Very few meters work well below thirty seconds or so. Though my OM4Ti wasn't bad.

I think a better approach would be to use the sensor for metering, like many fixed-lens cameras do. Of course, it's not easy - the current DSLR sensors' circuitry doesn't support it, so the sensors would have to be redesigned. But in principle, it shouldn't be impossible.

Now that I think about it, I already mostly use my sensor for metering (shoot in manual, watch the histogram, and adjust the exposure). I don't do much flash photography though.

heavyweather said:

I have never experienced somebody blinking after the preflash (I
did about 50.000 close up pictures of people this year!!)

Click to expand...

I understand that it depends on the camera models. I heard quite a few people complain about it on Canon or Nikon forums (don't remember which).

Boris

I am looking into the E system right now.

I work with Canon but I am not commited to one system. In MF I use the Mamiya RB system and still take 35mm slides with the OM system.

I was always looking forward to the E system and really waiting for a E1 successor.
The E1 Body is cheap by now but a little old to start with...





http://85.124.199.50/worx/

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go out and enjoy the sun instead....

Bao Ha said:

It basically measures the light reflected off the film plane during
the exposure. It's real time! The CPU can react to changing
light situations and decide when to close the shutter. It was
innovative at its time, but not anymore.

Click to expand...

REALLY? What cameras today meter the scene DURING the exposure? Please tell me, as it will be my next camera purchase.

Also, please tell me which cameras read the reflected light from the flash and quench the flash at the proper exposure point?

Trust me, going to digital from my OM system has been like stepping back into the dark ages when it comes to flash exposures.

ekn said:

ekn said:

It basically measures the light reflected off the film plane during
the exposure. It's real time! The CPU can react to changing
light situations and decide when to close the shutter. It was
innovative at its time, but not anymore.

Click to expand...

REALLY? What cameras today meter the scene DURING the exposure?
Please tell me, as it will be my next camera purchase.

Click to expand...

Pentax ist series do. That's how P-TTL works.

ekn said:

Also, please tell me which cameras read the reflected light from
the flash and quench the flash at the proper exposure point?

Click to expand...

Again, that's how P-TTL works. Unfortunately, I saw some reports that it's not very precise, because of the reflective qualities of the sensor.

ekn said:

Trust me, going to digital from my OM system has been like stepping
back into the dark ages when it comes to flash exposures.

Click to expand...

Me too.

I have a vague memory of reading that you can't do it off a sensor, as they tend not to bounce light like film did.

Pity, I have had 2n, 2sp, 3 and 4 OM bodies, all with TTL flash metering, and anything up to 3 T32s firing in full TTL!
Sadly, E series isn't there yet. I live in hope...

BorisK1 said:

Bao Ha said:

It makes no difference in the digital world now, since the sensor
knows how much light it gets.

Click to expand...

Nope. In DSLRs, the sensor doesn't see the light until the shutter
opens, and it doesn't have an ability to stop the exposure that's
already in progress. All DSLRs have separate light sensors.
Fixed-lens cameras are a different story.

Click to expand...

In fact, in the OM-series, for this reason, the ambient OTF exposures were actually read off of the first shutter curtain, which had a back and white random pattern that I expect averaged to a 19% gray. Thus, the exposure was calculated in the instant between the mirror flipping up and the first shutter starting to move.

With flash, however, the OTF exposure was actually off of the film (for obvious reasons).

My OM-2n was some damn cool camera.
--
ODM
http://home.earthlink.net/~olddigiman/photography/old_digiman.htm

Nice shots, heavyweather. So much better than the standard photographs from night clubs. Share your secrets. =)

Wow! I guess the flash exposure is nice, but I really love how your shots can tell a story...

Thank you for the compliments.
There is no secret...
I am missing spot metering on the 10D very often.

Other than that colors and sharpness are pushed in camera to get more pop.

sometimes you have to step up flashcompensation 1/3, the 10D tends to underexpose (which is good when working RAW but rather useless for pictures you don't do postprozessing and just want to FTP very fast).
Other than that...
800iso
0,5 to 1/10 time...sometimes up to 1/90 when I want to freeze danzers.

stroboskope flashes are the biggest annoyance in some clubs.
Lightning changes very fast...red light is not too good either.

I Try to get colorfull very well lit backgrounds...then even stroboflashes are fun sometimes. (I hate big raves but sometimes they can yield nice pix)

I am striving to get the very best party photographer
Actually there are like 15 big partywebsites here in Vienna.
They are portals for news and tourism.
I am working for vienna.at

only doing it aside my studies...well, very underpayed...so I am the best, most underpayed party photographer there is LOL

MCX said:

Nice shots, heavyweather. So much better than the standard
photographs from night clubs. Share your secrets. =)

Click to expand...

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go out and enjoy the sun instead....

OldDigiman said:

In fact, in the OM-series, for this reason, the ambient OTF
exposures were actually read off of the first shutter curtain,
which had a back and white random pattern that I expect averaged to
a 19% gray. Thus, the exposure was calculated in the instant
between the mirror flipping up and the first shutter starting to
move.

Click to expand...

Close, but not quite 100% correct. The exposure circuit is a simple analogue integrator that accepts as input the light being reflected off the film/curtain. The integration begins the instant the first curtain is released. Once the integrator has captured enough light it releases the second curtain. For exposures above 1/60 of a second a percentage of the light is always reflected from the curtain since the shutter is never fully open. At 1/1000 most of the exposure is calcualted off the curtain. At just above 1/60 most of it is from the film. The exposure is never calculated before the shutter opens. In fact, even in manual mode the integration still takes place. The only difference is that the integrator input comes from a set of fixed value resistors and not the incoming light.

OldDigiman said:

With flash, however, the OTF exposure was actually off of the film
(for obvious reasons).

Click to expand...

True, because flash sync is less than 1/60.
-mark