12 million is 12 million is still 12 million

The S-ccd's pixels are arranged diagonally. During the demosaicing process they must be converted to a rectangular grid, since our screens are arranged this way. It is this rotapolation that requires the addition of teh extra pixel. There's no way to turn 6 million pixels without adding another 6 million.

And, according to some, the S3 is the best 8MP camera. :)
Well Fuji and its pixel countand interpolation. Thanks to Derrel
you get the praise here) for making me revist the white papers. I
reread and came to a greater understanding. We all realize that a
sensor is laid out in a grid. On that grid is a photdiode (pixel)
then a space, then another photodiode. These are in rows staggered.
so inbetween the photodiode is a gap or space. Simple grid pattern.



Now for the S2. When its in 12mp mode. The camera samples the pd's
and guesses at the data, exposure or so to make a fith pd in the
gap. once it guesses this data it adds it to the pic, the
interpolation, ir stitching. Thus the S2 is a 6mp sensor that
guesses a second set of 6mp data to make the 12mp or i will call it
I12. What is amazing is the fact that all this data appears to be
for resolution. This explains why some S2/3 owners have commented
on the S2 resolves more then the S3.

Now for the S3. The S3 was delayed almost a year to get the sonsor
right. The S3 has fuji's 4th generation sensor (sort of) This
sensor is the SR sensor. The SR sensor was changed for the S3 to
the SR II. The basis of the SR is 2 sets of pd's set to different
sensativities to increase the DR.
Lookng at the pick the orig SR sensor appears to use the same
photolens and the SRII uses 2 seperate ones. I have yet to find
where Fuji says I am right or wrong here. Below is SR diagrams. SR
on left SRII on right



Now the interpolation in the S3 is quite different than the S2. In
the S3 we have 2 sets of real data interpolated or stitched to make
one complete pic. We actually have 6.17 S and 6.17R pixel to
combine to make a 12.34mp pic. I can hear Derrel and Gabe moaning
already. Stick with me guys. Thats right guys it is a 12.34mp pic,
but is it realy? The S3 is really a different take on photography.
I think its the right way but am real hungry for more. The S3 give
is 12.34 mp for DR, but only 6.17 for resolution. Thats right, 6.17
for resolution. Remember I said people say the S2 seems to resolve
more than the S3. This is why.

I hope I was clear and this is easy to understand and got it all
right. Fuji releases the HR (resolution only) sensor before the SR
sensor. The HR sensor is at 9mp. That means they can adapt this to
a SR (dual 9mp) or larger.

Fuji gave us a great camera, now lets figure out what to do with
it. The Fuji S#, the best 12.34mp body, 6.17mp picture camera money
can buy. Its also the only one.

--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
If you haven't read Leo's and Dillon's posts here then you should. These guys know their stuff. Nice discussion of both sides.

Interpolation in your computer is not the same as what Fuji is doing here. They are not completely making up the information from nothing. Fuji is saying because of the design their sensor delivers some extra information and they are using it to produce a 12MP output.

Math lesson 4000 x 3000 = 12000000. You want to say it's interpolation, or you don't like it's ability to resolve with 8MP camera's I understand. Calling it a 6MP camera I don't. Your saying everyone has to make sensors the same way all in nice neat rows. Fuji likes diagonals and uses them to give 12 million pixels in their output.
 
well i should have added the fact that most pd's are round or square. Fuji realized that you get greater line resolution if this is rotated 45 degress. then yo uhave the issues of gap space. to equalize the gap space they made thier pd's hexagonal. thats is on the wite paper of the super ccd sensor. so 1990's ago.
--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
 
Im just reread your post.

What I posted is what happens with the S2. The S3 does this whole process twice, once for the S pixels, and once for the R. Then it simply blends them together, into one 12MP file, with the R pixels being used only for some highlight data, in some wide DR scenes.

Some disagree with this. Some believe that the R pixels are also being used for additional resolution data, since they are in a slightly dfferent position and each has its own microlens.

The Leo guy from the Portugese forum believes this, and has posted data that aims to prove it. I have my doubts about this, but I have an open mind to it.
And, according to some, the S3 is the best 8MP camera. :)
Well Fuji and its pixel countand interpolation. Thanks to Derrel
you get the praise here) for making me revist the white papers. I
reread and came to a greater understanding. We all realize that a
sensor is laid out in a grid. On that grid is a photdiode (pixel)
then a space, then another photodiode. These are in rows staggered.
so inbetween the photodiode is a gap or space. Simple grid pattern.



Now for the S2. When its in 12mp mode. The camera samples the pd's
and guesses at the data, exposure or so to make a fith pd in the
gap. once it guesses this data it adds it to the pic, the
interpolation, ir stitching. Thus the S2 is a 6mp sensor that
guesses a second set of 6mp data to make the 12mp or i will call it
I12. What is amazing is the fact that all this data appears to be
for resolution. This explains why some S2/3 owners have commented
on the S2 resolves more then the S3.

Now for the S3. The S3 was delayed almost a year to get the sonsor
right. The S3 has fuji's 4th generation sensor (sort of) This
sensor is the SR sensor. The SR sensor was changed for the S3 to
the SR II. The basis of the SR is 2 sets of pd's set to different
sensativities to increase the DR.
Lookng at the pick the orig SR sensor appears to use the same
photolens and the SRII uses 2 seperate ones. I have yet to find
where Fuji says I am right or wrong here. Below is SR diagrams. SR
on left SRII on right



Now the interpolation in the S3 is quite different than the S2. In
the S3 we have 2 sets of real data interpolated or stitched to make
one complete pic. We actually have 6.17 S and 6.17R pixel to
combine to make a 12.34mp pic. I can hear Derrel and Gabe moaning
already. Stick with me guys. Thats right guys it is a 12.34mp pic,
but is it realy? The S3 is really a different take on photography.
I think its the right way but am real hungry for more. The S3 give
is 12.34 mp for DR, but only 6.17 for resolution. Thats right, 6.17
for resolution. Remember I said people say the S2 seems to resolve
more than the S3. This is why.

I hope I was clear and this is easy to understand and got it all
right. Fuji releases the HR (resolution only) sensor before the SR
sensor. The HR sensor is at 9mp. That means they can adapt this to
a SR (dual 9mp) or larger.

Fuji gave us a great camera, now lets figure out what to do with
it. The Fuji S#, the best 12.34mp body, 6.17mp picture camera money
can buy. Its also the only one.

--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
--
This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner.
Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
There's been a ton written about this. Both here and on teh regular fuji forum, as well as the OPen forum.

I can appreciate your enthusiam for the sensor. That's why I paid almost twice what I could have gotten an 20D for.

Hey, join in teh S3 fracas more often!
If you haven't read Leo's and Dillon's posts here then you should.
These guys know their stuff. Nice discussion of both sides.

Interpolation in your computer is not the same as what Fuji is
doing here. They are not completely making up the information from
nothing. Fuji is saying because of the design their sensor delivers
some extra information and they are using it to produce a 12MP
output.

Math lesson 4000 x 3000 = 12000000. You want to say it's
interpolation, or you don't like it's ability to resolve with 8MP
camera's I understand. Calling it a 6MP camera I don't. Your saying
everyone has to make sensors the same way all in nice neat rows.
Fuji likes diagonals and uses them to give 12 million pixels in
their output.
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
Im just reread your post.

What I posted is what happens with the S2. The S3 does this whole
process twice, once for the S pixels, and once for the R. Then it
simply blends them together, into one 12MP file, with the R pixels
being used only for some highlight data, in some wide DR scenes.
I understand, the S3 guesses the data as well, but because of the S and R does it twice. Dont know If I totally agree, but seems logical.
Some disagree with this. Some believe that the R pixels are also
being used for additional resolution data, since they are in a
slightly dfferent position and each has its own microlens.
Its there, I do not see why it cant. Thats a lot of guessing.
The Leo guy from the Portugese forum believes this, and has posted
data that aims to prove it. I have my doubts about this, but I have
an open mind to it.
Well it seems logical, the data is there, why not use it. Maybe this iswhy its so slow, thats a lot of guessing.

--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
 
Why Fuji would not use a group of 6MP of real information?



R = True 6MP Image from R pixels.
S = True 6MP Image from S pixels.

All w/ your microlens and position.

Just tell me why. ;)
 
Kev,

With s7raw, you can actually pull out te two seperate files and blend them yourself if you want. I wrote the author of the program, inquiring about an issue I had with how s7raw blends the pixels, and said, that if I didn't like it, I could blend the them myself. And there was no smiley either. :(

Anyway, you can. There are a couple of tick boxes that let you see just the R, or just the S.
Im just reread your post.

What I posted is what happens with the S2. The S3 does this whole
process twice, once for the S pixels, and once for the R. Then it
simply blends them together, into one 12MP file, with the R pixels
being used only for some highlight data, in some wide DR scenes.
I understand, the S3 guesses the data as well, but because of the S
and R does it twice. Dont know If I totally agree, but seems
logical.
Some disagree with this. Some believe that the R pixels are also
being used for additional resolution data, since they are in a
slightly dfferent position and each has its own microlens.
Its there, I do not see why it cant. Thats a lot of guessing.
The Leo guy from the Portugese forum believes this, and has posted
data that aims to prove it. I have my doubts about this, but I have
an open mind to it.
Well it seems logical, the data is there, why not use it. Maybe
this iswhy its so slow, thats a lot of guessing.

--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
Why Fuji would not use a group of 6MP of real information?
The more important question is not why they wouldn't but did they? :)

One might counter with, why did fuji make a vertical release that couldn't wake up the camera? ;)

I'd be interested in seeing what tests you have done that aim to prove that fuji uses the R pixels for additional resolution.


R = True 6MP Image from R pixels.
S = True 6MP Image from S pixels.

All w/ your microlens and position.

Just tell me why. ;)
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
it looks like you missed why i typed what, when. Waht I said was that the S and R are combined to make a pic that uses all 12.34mp for dynamic range. This can be changed by the operator as well. the fact that they are both the same 6.17 resolution. the DR is different. so you get a 12.34mp dr/6.17mp res pic with the S3. Dillon contends that the S3 "guesses" to make it a I12mp res as well. From what I have seen i nthe S3, I am not sure I can make that leap.
--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
 
it looks like you missed why i typed what, when. Waht I said was
that the S and R are combined to make a pic that uses all 12.34mp
for dynamic range. This can be changed by the operator as well. the
fact that they are both the same 6.17 resolution. the DR is
different. so you get a 12.34mp dr/6.17mp res pic with the S3.
Dillon contends that the S3 "guesses" to make it a I12mp res as
well. From what I have seen i nthe S3, I am not sure I can make
that leap.
You misread. I said I doubt that. I said Leo believed that. That what is behind his response to you. He's trying to convince you that both are used for resolution.

I was reading his posts on the portugese forum, and he stated that he wised Phil has used the Wide DR mode when he did his rez tests.

He's the anti-Artichoke!

;))
--
Kodachrome, they give us those nice bright colours
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a nikon camera, I love to take a photograph
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
If I interpolate a FujiS2 picture upto 60million by using photoshop to increase the size of the image in 10% increments bicubic interpolation, does this mean that the FujiS2 is a 60MP camera??????

The S2 has 6million+ photosites. It's a 6MP camera.

The S3 has 6million+ photosites. It's a 6MP camera. The only difference is that it also has 6million+ photosites for highlights which are blended into the image to provide a wider dynamic range. It's still a 6MP camera.
 
Not really that simple. I think you get the equivalent to about what an regular 8MP camera resolves, at least when printed. I'd suggest you do a search to learn more. I leave you with this, a quote from the British Journal of Photography's Anders Uschold, one of the best know, most technically minded reviewers in Europe.

Anders Uschold form BJP wrote:

“The Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro posesses a very progressive sensor design. Instead of any external interpolation method known to my test laboratory, here the interpolated mode provides a real increase of detail information. Using high-end, well-suited lenses, the camera can compete with eight million pixel models of other manufacturers.”

There's no finer reference than that.
If I interpolate a FujiS2 picture upto 60million by using photoshop
to increase the size of the image in 10% increments bicubic
interpolation, does this mean that the FujiS2 is a 60MP camera??????

The S2 has 6million+ photosites. It's a 6MP camera.
The S3 has 6million+ photosites. It's a 6MP camera. The only
difference is that it also has 6million+ photosites for highlights
which are blended into the image to provide a wider dynamic range.
It's still a 6MP camera.
--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
Because old format is more efficient to do not use R pixels in Resolution, because R and S pixels have the same information in Super CCD SR.

In super CCD SR II the information is different if R Pixels isn’t used in resolution the image in a Super CCD SR II is inferior of image in Super CCD SR, because in second option we have convergence in information of S and R pixels, if your objective is only add highlights to a pixels a convergent information is more accurate over a parallel information. ;) If fuji don’t use R pixels in resolution of S3 they made a Downgrade in super CCD SR II ;)

Sorry for my english. :)
 
I think you are assuming Fuji placed the R pixel under its own microlens in order to use it for additional resolution information. However, Fuji might have done this so as not to remove area from the S pixels. There is only so much room there. If you move the R to the space in between, then the S can still stay large, and have good sesnsitivity.
Sorry for my english. :)
Stop apologizing. You'll really see some apologizing when I come over to your forum and start posting in Portugese! :)

--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
But they can make S and R pixels in different areas w/ same microlens.

I don't have a resolution chart but I can post a texture test of RAW convertions w/ R and W/o R.
 
But they can make S and R pixels in different areas w/ same microlens.
I know, I agree. I am just giving a possible explanation for why they did this.
I don't have a resolution chart but I can post a texture test of
RAW convertions w/ R and W/o R.
Okay. Interested to see it.

--

This info has been brought to you by a 100% genuine S3 user/owner. Beware of substitutes!

Ghosts ghosts go away, please don't come back another day...
 
Well, thinking with this information we had concluded:
S3 have 12MP REAL INFORMATION between -3.5EV and +3.5EV (7EV
You are making a terrible disservice. The S2 doesn't resolve 12MP of spatial information period. What is 12MP for you? Take a real 12MP camera and compare the two than give me an answer intellectually honest. If you want to be honest, add the resolution chart of a real 12MP camera and then we see where are your 12MP.

Second, what is your portuguese chart representing on the vertical axes? dB? Voltage? Photons count? A chart like that without vertical axes is anti-scientific. On your chart what is the # of extra stops that you gave to the S3? It seems to me more than what Fuji is saying but, again, you are not saying what you are measuring. In this way it is possible to prove anything and more.

Third, if you are a happy user of the S3 more power to you, but you can't make objective articles since you are obviously having a preferred choice. Phil is not proclaiming loyalty for brand A or brand B and so far it seems to me that he is collecting more approvals than anybody else in the business. Are we on Phil's web site right?

--
Regards
Gabriele
California, CA
 
The S2 has 6million+ photosites. It's a 6MP camera.
The S3 has 6million+ photosites. It's a 6MP camera. The only
difference is that it also has 6million+ photosites for highlights
which are blended into the image to provide a wider dynamic range.
It's still a 6MP camera.
Totally correct. You can't have it both way. It is mathematic. If you use the extra information for extra DR you can't now have 12MP of resolution. Period, End of the story, Finito.

--
Regards
Gabriele
California, CA
 
Y Is Saturation Levels.

This Chart is from RAW Results, in JPG the Dynamic Range is above 10.5EV, All in this site knows that RAW have "lost" Dynamic Range when converted to JPG.
 

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