I am getting ready to head to CO for fall color (I hope!). I will be in the company of some really good photographers, really really good pros. I will be the only one shooting film (RVP 220). I am a film holdout. Its not because I don't have digital, I do and would make most people on here envious. 1D, 20D, lots of Canons most popular L glass. But when the sun pops up over the ROckies and I am on top, I want my Mamiya 645 load with RVP. I shoot digital in my commercial and wedding biz. So, short of film becoming unavailible, what is it going to take to make me and the last holdouts switch? I know digital is wonderful, but there is something about film that I still love. I love having slides instead of files,looking at them on the lightbox, I love the smoothness of the sweet light on film. Lord knows I would love to stop spending money on film and processing, but to me its still worth it. If I thougt the 1DS would make me happy I would snatch one up, but I don't think it would...
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
what will it take to get rid of the last film holdouts?
- Thread starter Kendunn
- Start date
Ken Phillips
Forum Pro
... will be 12 or so megapixels @ true color @ ultra wide dynamic range. IOW, any advantage that film now may hold will be overrun.
I only shoot 4 x 5 in film!
Ken
--
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
Voted Best of the City 2004 by Cincinnati Magazine
I don't believe in fate, but I do believe in f/8!
I only shoot 4 x 5 in film!
Ken
--
http://www.ahomls.com/gallery.htm
Voted Best of the City 2004 by Cincinnati Magazine
I don't believe in fate, but I do believe in f/8!
Frank from AZ
Senior Member
I think film will be with us as long as there are cameras. Maybe a niche specialty market not unlike vinyl record albums.
--
Frank from Phoenix
Canon1DMk2,1D and lots of typos
--
Frank from Phoenix
Canon1DMk2,1D and lots of typos
PhotoTraveler
Forum Pro
Film won't die for many reasons.
1) it has no real reason to die, people will always like it for some reason or another. Its not like it lacks capability.
2) Long exposures, until digitals can take a single frame for like an hour, I don't think they will displace film.
3) Low ISO, for people that ISO 100 is fast, digitals aren't their game yet.
4) CCDs don't load in their current film camera. (people don't like to replace what isn't broke)
5) B&W, Infrared I don't think Digital can equal those yet. Digital B&W still looks odd
6) Lack of camera options
9) Retro factor. Its not a horse being replace by a car. Its owning a car vs a truck. Both co live, and over time one is trendy over another. In time, few will using film, those who do will like being different.
10) can't think of a 10
1) it has no real reason to die, people will always like it for some reason or another. Its not like it lacks capability.
2) Long exposures, until digitals can take a single frame for like an hour, I don't think they will displace film.
3) Low ISO, for people that ISO 100 is fast, digitals aren't their game yet.
4) CCDs don't load in their current film camera. (people don't like to replace what isn't broke)
5) B&W, Infrared I don't think Digital can equal those yet. Digital B&W still looks odd
6) Lack of camera options
- Many people never took the jump to things like AF, they have no intention to ever do this. So until camera makers make digital MF cameras, they will stick with film. I caved and bought a 7D, my father is still waiting. There is probably a massive group of Canon and Minolta users in this boat.
- For many people, they want nothing to do with a computer in photography. They cringe at "just fix it in photoshop" I'm one to some extent.
9) Retro factor. Its not a horse being replace by a car. Its owning a car vs a truck. Both co live, and over time one is trendy over another. In time, few will using film, those who do will like being different.
10) can't think of a 10
Matt Brock
Forum Enthusiast
It's not the medium that's important. Film/digital makes no difference to me.
What makes a difference to me is (in this order):
1. The final product
2. The ease/difficulty in creating the final product
The medium is really most important for #2. So, what advantages does film have? Wider exposure latitude--but not for very much longer (thanks, Fuji!). That's about it.
BUT. What advantages do film CAMERAS have? Ah, now there's an interesting question. And I'll tell you, the single greatest thing about shooting film versus just about any dSLR: the viewfinder. So simple, so seemingly irrelevant. But give us a CLEAR, BRIGHT, HUGE HONKIN' viewfinder on a dSLR and I think 90% of the film holdouts will switch.
What makes a difference to me is (in this order):
1. The final product
2. The ease/difficulty in creating the final product
The medium is really most important for #2. So, what advantages does film have? Wider exposure latitude--but not for very much longer (thanks, Fuji!). That's about it.
BUT. What advantages do film CAMERAS have? Ah, now there's an interesting question. And I'll tell you, the single greatest thing about shooting film versus just about any dSLR: the viewfinder. So simple, so seemingly irrelevant. But give us a CLEAR, BRIGHT, HUGE HONKIN' viewfinder on a dSLR and I think 90% of the film holdouts will switch.
I don't think the viewfinder is what keeps me coming back to the Mamiya, I often opt for the WLF to save weight and where it is not square I often times have to look at it at very weird angles to compose, and it is upside and backwards when shooting verticle, but it saves a pound and when backpacking that is a lot. I know it is a pain, but it don't bother me, just part of my job, so a regular finder is a luxury, lol.
Franka T.L.
Veteran Member
with equal capability and no need for me to haul a truck of batteries along or so. I am not hopeful for that though.
--
Franka
--
Franka
The viewfinder on the majority of digital cameras I have looked at (and I am BIG digital fan) are simply abominations.
Many younger photographers today simply do not realize how horrible these viewfinders are. I suggest that if you have a grandparent who remembers the SRT Minolta cameras with the 58mm/Fl.4 lens, take a look through that marvelous camera and think about how nice it would be if it had a digital sensor.
Most digital cameras are simply unfriendly to your eyes, including dSLR's. You're using cropped viewfinders and exaggerated focal lengths to begin with, and you often get stuck with excessive depth of field.
I will be shooting another wedding this weekend with film, I want to use digital, but it is visually exhausting to use digital IMHO. This may improve but I'm shooting a wedding this week. It's not a matter of being a hold out, its a matter of appropriate tools that feel comfortable to use.
My Nikon 35mm's have big viewfinders compared to my D100, and my Mamiya 6 and Bronica RF cameras have huge viewfinders that do not get in the way of what I am trying to do. Their focal lengths are realistic, I'm not shooting down a pipe, the images are less stressed out looking, and depth of field is easy to control.
During the week its 100% digital for me, however for weddings, for now, its film cameras.
I'm open minded, when a digital camera that handles as silky smooth as my MF cams happens, I'm buying it.
Ed
Many younger photographers today simply do not realize how horrible these viewfinders are. I suggest that if you have a grandparent who remembers the SRT Minolta cameras with the 58mm/Fl.4 lens, take a look through that marvelous camera and think about how nice it would be if it had a digital sensor.
Most digital cameras are simply unfriendly to your eyes, including dSLR's. You're using cropped viewfinders and exaggerated focal lengths to begin with, and you often get stuck with excessive depth of field.
I will be shooting another wedding this weekend with film, I want to use digital, but it is visually exhausting to use digital IMHO. This may improve but I'm shooting a wedding this week. It's not a matter of being a hold out, its a matter of appropriate tools that feel comfortable to use.
My Nikon 35mm's have big viewfinders compared to my D100, and my Mamiya 6 and Bronica RF cameras have huge viewfinders that do not get in the way of what I am trying to do. Their focal lengths are realistic, I'm not shooting down a pipe, the images are less stressed out looking, and depth of field is easy to control.
During the week its 100% digital for me, however for weddings, for now, its film cameras.
I'm open minded, when a digital camera that handles as silky smooth as my MF cams happens, I'm buying it.
Ed
greengeo
Member
1) if someone can convince me that spending more time at a computer is a good thing. I work on images with a computer all day at work, for me film is something I create with my hands in my own time.
2) I love the dance that I get to do in the darkroom, dodging and burning during printing, making 20x24 prints, toning etc. I dont get that buzz from PS.
3) When I can put a pinhole lens on a digital without worrying about how much dust is getting on the sensor.
4) When I can build my own camers from wood or cardboard or whatever, using digital sensors with curved film planes (I suspect that may be a ways off).
Just my thoughts. Dont get me wrong I love digital and computers and that is what pays my bills but for me they remove some of the craft of photography and replace it with science.
tim
2) I love the dance that I get to do in the darkroom, dodging and burning during printing, making 20x24 prints, toning etc. I dont get that buzz from PS.
3) When I can put a pinhole lens on a digital without worrying about how much dust is getting on the sensor.
4) When I can build my own camers from wood or cardboard or whatever, using digital sensors with curved film planes (I suspect that may be a ways off).
Just my thoughts. Dont get me wrong I love digital and computers and that is what pays my bills but for me they remove some of the craft of photography and replace it with science.
tim
PhotoTraveler
Forum Pro
I too would love to build my own camera.
Not sure if you were serious about the pin hole, but they have their place. I know my father is always going on about them.
I don't get people who think anything old is bad.
Just like books, I will never give up good hard cover dead trees for Ebooks, ick.
Not sure if you were serious about the pin hole, but they have their place. I know my father is always going on about them.
I don't get people who think anything old is bad.
Just like books, I will never give up good hard cover dead trees for Ebooks, ick.
PhotoTraveler
Forum Pro
Age isn't part of it.
I think there is a misconception about young people and cameras. I'm 25, but prefer camera designs from before I was born.
I don't like new view finders because they aren't made for Manual focusing. I have to send my 7D to minolta to get the screen changed.
I also hate only seeing 90% of the image. I don't even understand why its this way, why on earth do they make that reduction? And my understanding is that the 7D view finder is better then most, esh.
I think there is a misconception about young people and cameras. I'm 25, but prefer camera designs from before I was born.
I don't like new view finders because they aren't made for Manual focusing. I have to send my 7D to minolta to get the screen changed.
I also hate only seeing 90% of the image. I don't even understand why its this way, why on earth do they make that reduction? And my understanding is that the 7D view finder is better then most, esh.
greengeo
Member
I was serious about the pinholes. There is nothing better than building a pinhole camera to shoot a 20x24 negative then making a platinum-palladium contact print from it. Its just getting much harder to sourse all the materials to do it.
Rick Boden
Leading Member
Kendunn wrote:
I know digital is wonderful, but there is
Unfortunately scanning, even with an expensive drumscanner, is the great equalizer and once they're in the computer they look quite ordinary, just like digital captures.
Rick
I know digital is wonderful, but there is
Slides look good on a light box. They even look better when they are still on the roll dripping wet, just out of the processor and you hold them up to the light and see the rich colours and you think it is so much better than digital...I've been there.
Unfortunately scanning, even with an expensive drumscanner, is the great equalizer and once they're in the computer they look quite ordinary, just like digital captures.
Rick
PhotoTraveler
Forum Pro
Yeah, my father has done some nice shots with them. He actually did a big paper on them in college he's very proud of. So I grew up hearing about them a lot.
Of course one can build a wonderful Pin hole camera these days. But without a home darkroom, I think developing the shot is troublesome.
I'm currently waiting for the resources in building a digital camera to get cheaper. lenses will always be hard, but to build the body, is in reach for people with the right skills and tools.
For some reason many here use Pinholes in conversations bashing anything old, they look at them like no one uses them or they have no place.
Of course one can build a wonderful Pin hole camera these days. But without a home darkroom, I think developing the shot is troublesome.
I'm currently waiting for the resources in building a digital camera to get cheaper. lenses will always be hard, but to build the body, is in reach for people with the right skills and tools.
For some reason many here use Pinholes in conversations bashing anything old, they look at them like no one uses them or they have no place.
... something that you love. Some people are still going to the post office, buy stamps and post letters, while others use emails. Personally I prefer receiving a mail in my letter box than an email in my "InBox" I shoot %100 digital thought!
I shoot %100 digital thought! l_ombre_jaune
Senior Member
would you believe that my wife still uses brushes and paints to make pictures on a canvas !
G. Jobin
G. Jobin
I paint. My mom is a painter. Used to be, I can strike up a conversation with any housewife and a good percentage will know how to paint.
It's harder to find a painter these days too. None of the younger generation in my extended family paints anymore.
Kids these days think Sienna is a van and burnt umber is a monster in a game.
So there will always be painters and film users but it will get lonely.
It's harder to find a painter these days too. None of the younger generation in my extended family paints anymore.
Kids these days think Sienna is a van and burnt umber is a monster in a game.
So there will always be painters and film users but it will get lonely.
Shaun Williamson
Senior Member
For me the one true advance that came with the digital darkroom i.e
computers and photoshop was that it made colour photography equal to
black and white. For the first time you could alter the contrast of colour
photos easily.
However there will still be a place for film for a long time yet. The best
photos I have ever seen were black and white, taken on a 10"x8" sheet
film camera and printed at A3 size.
computers and photoshop was that it made colour photography equal to
black and white. For the first time you could alter the contrast of colour
photos easily.
However there will still be a place for film for a long time yet. The best
photos I have ever seen were black and white, taken on a 10"x8" sheet
film camera and printed at A3 size.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum