I've been asked by a local little league to shoot action shots of the kids. The one particular need they have is for someone to print on-site so that parents can purchase the photos there. I've never done on-site printing so I'm asking for any suggestions from those of you that are doing this. What type of equipment do I need? What is the optimal setup for this? I'm thinking that most will be 4X6, but there may also be a neet for 5X7 or 8X10. Should I stay away from printing the larger sizes because of equipment costs? Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Printing sports photos on-site
- Thread starter John P.
- Start date
fdmilder
Well-known member
I'm very intersted to hear if anyone has actually done this. it sounds like an amazingly "over the top" request from someone who has no sense of "reality". I don't have a sense of the size of the little league, but let's suppose that you take and print 200 4 by 6's. Any portable printer that you might bring will take at least 1-1/2 minutes, maybe 2 to print the photo. So, we're talking about something like 5 hours or more just to print the photos. I suppose that you could get 5 printers, and then you'd be down to about an hour, PRESUMING THAT you ONLY print the photos that someone wants (and none just to give a "choice"). So, you'll need 5 printers, and people to run the printers.
Now let's suppose that you charge $8 for a 4 by 6. (I expect that they will want you to charge $3 or $4, but I know that I've paid $10 on boat rides and similar events, but that was on vacation, and I think only about 1/4 of the people actually buy a photo.) If you sell 100 photos, you'll raise about $800. You'll spend way more than that on printers, plus about $100 for the prints, and the cost of an assistant (or two). (Of course, you get to keep the printers!)
Which makes me wonder if it really makes sense to try to do this with portable printers! Obviously, the choices for 4 by 6 are the Epson PictureMate and the HP Photosmart. Add the HP 450 and the Canon iP90 for up to 8 by 10s, but remember that only the Epson and the larger HP do 6 colors (the others are all 3 colors). The printers alone are all about $250, plus batteries (or will they get you a serious source of power, in which case you might be able to use "regular" printers, although you'll still need several of them).
What about taking the photos and then running them over to Ritz/Costco/Walgreen's/CVS, presuming that they are expecting you and will respond quickly?
This sounds like a very harrowing day for you with not much of a return.
Lots of luck!
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-- Forrest
http://forrestmilder.smugmug.com/gallery/686811
Now let's suppose that you charge $8 for a 4 by 6. (I expect that they will want you to charge $3 or $4, but I know that I've paid $10 on boat rides and similar events, but that was on vacation, and I think only about 1/4 of the people actually buy a photo.) If you sell 100 photos, you'll raise about $800. You'll spend way more than that on printers, plus about $100 for the prints, and the cost of an assistant (or two). (Of course, you get to keep the printers!)
Which makes me wonder if it really makes sense to try to do this with portable printers! Obviously, the choices for 4 by 6 are the Epson PictureMate and the HP Photosmart. Add the HP 450 and the Canon iP90 for up to 8 by 10s, but remember that only the Epson and the larger HP do 6 colors (the others are all 3 colors). The printers alone are all about $250, plus batteries (or will they get you a serious source of power, in which case you might be able to use "regular" printers, although you'll still need several of them).
What about taking the photos and then running them over to Ritz/Costco/Walgreen's/CVS, presuming that they are expecting you and will respond quickly?
This sounds like a very harrowing day for you with not much of a return.
Lots of luck!
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-- Forrest
http://forrestmilder.smugmug.com/gallery/686811
C
Cathy
Guest
Don't do it..It's too much of a hassle. I do action pics and post them to an online website. The parents can look at them there and order online. Right now I'm letting them download small pics just so I can promote my name and my highschool senior business. I've still sold several enlargements to parents.
Cathy
PS If you still want to do it..I have a Kodak 8500 that I'll sell cheap..if you pick it up
http://angelicphotos.com
Cathy
PS If you still want to do it..I have a Kodak 8500 that I'll sell cheap..if you pick it up
http://angelicphotos.com
R
Roger Beckett
Guest
I have done some on-site printing with the Kodak 1400. It is very quick - 4-6"x4" at a time in about 90 secs. The cost of the printer is very reasonable and results are excellent. Get someone to assist you though!
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Roger
Roger...thanks for the information! I'm trying to look at all the possibilities before I rule anything out.
edwardneal
Veteran Member
Every year my wife's employer throws a huge Christmas party. There are easily over 1000 employees with their spouses or dates. They always have two photographers setup with a 2 DSLR's tethered to a PC's with Kodak dye-sub printers. As the couples come in they are directed to the photographers where they are posed and their picture is taken An assistant who is viewing the pictures on the monitor tells the photographer if the shot is ok, if it is the couple goes on their way into the party hall if not it is retaken. The photos are then printed by a second helper and put in cardboard frames and set out on long tables for the guests to take when they leave the party. With this setup they manage to take and print at least 1000 pictures. I think if you can get a similar assembly line going you should be able to do it with out to much difficulty. If you will only be printing 4x6 Hiti makes some great dye sub printers that are great for events. I have the Hiti 730 Gala and have shot some small events where I printed 5x7s on site and it worked great.
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Edward
Lenses listed in profile
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Edward
Lenses listed in profile
edwardneal
Veteran Member
I just realized that you said action shots, that would have to be handled differently than I said above, but I think that if you had an assistant with a pc and printer you could be out shooting action and every now and then give them your memory card and put a new one in the camera. That way they could do the editing and printing and you continue to shoot pictures. This way by the time you get to the end of the game the vast majority of your pictures are already printed and the parents can even go over and look at what has already been printed as the game progresses.
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Edward
Lenses listed in profile
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Edward
Lenses listed in profile
fdmilder
Well-known member
I still don't get the math.
Take our company party. Let's suppose that each couple is photographed in 10 seconds, and everyone is perfect (I suppose it's possible). With two photographers, you could take 12 photographs a minute, and it would take an hour and a half to take 1000 photos. However, I suppose that's not really relevant, since you could start printing as soon as you took the photos, with pretty much complete overlap (presuming that you had the staff to shoot and print at the same time).
So the real question is "How fast can you print the photos?"
Presume 45 seconds per print, with no time for reprints, loading paper, changing cartridges, etc. (The HiTi is one fast printer! But note that, according to their website, 5 by 7s take 70 seconds, and, in fact, at different places on the site, they say it takes 75 seconds (not 45) for 4 by 6s, particularly the printers that use roll paper, which you might have thought would be the fastest). Regardelss, based on those assumptions, two printers could print 160 photos per hour (or fewer), yielding 1000 photos in a little over 6 hours (ten hours using more realistic numbers). So, I suppose it could be done, but only if at least SOME of the people waited 6 to 10 hours to get their prints.
What am I missing? I'm figuring that allowing for downtime, and things breaking, they must have SIX of the HiTi printers. Then, the photos could be done in somewhere between 2 and 4 hours, even allowing for breakage, cleaning, etc. But you'd need a lot of staff too.
And, of course, as you said in your follow-up, it won't work the same way with action photos. In particular, he'd still be taking pictures while the company party guys long ago devoted all their resources to printing the photos they already took. So, we're going to need ever more staff to do this with the little league!
I still think that this is a wildly impractical thing for a solo photographer who doesn't already own (several) portable printers.
-- Forrest
http://forrestmilder.smugmug.com/gallery/686811
Take our company party. Let's suppose that each couple is photographed in 10 seconds, and everyone is perfect (I suppose it's possible). With two photographers, you could take 12 photographs a minute, and it would take an hour and a half to take 1000 photos. However, I suppose that's not really relevant, since you could start printing as soon as you took the photos, with pretty much complete overlap (presuming that you had the staff to shoot and print at the same time).
So the real question is "How fast can you print the photos?"
Presume 45 seconds per print, with no time for reprints, loading paper, changing cartridges, etc. (The HiTi is one fast printer! But note that, according to their website, 5 by 7s take 70 seconds, and, in fact, at different places on the site, they say it takes 75 seconds (not 45) for 4 by 6s, particularly the printers that use roll paper, which you might have thought would be the fastest). Regardelss, based on those assumptions, two printers could print 160 photos per hour (or fewer), yielding 1000 photos in a little over 6 hours (ten hours using more realistic numbers). So, I suppose it could be done, but only if at least SOME of the people waited 6 to 10 hours to get their prints.
What am I missing? I'm figuring that allowing for downtime, and things breaking, they must have SIX of the HiTi printers. Then, the photos could be done in somewhere between 2 and 4 hours, even allowing for breakage, cleaning, etc. But you'd need a lot of staff too.
And, of course, as you said in your follow-up, it won't work the same way with action photos. In particular, he'd still be taking pictures while the company party guys long ago devoted all their resources to printing the photos they already took. So, we're going to need ever more staff to do this with the little league!
I still think that this is a wildly impractical thing for a solo photographer who doesn't already own (several) portable printers.
-- Forrest
http://forrestmilder.smugmug.com/gallery/686811
edwardneal
Veteran Member
at a Christmas party. Remember, these couples are getting their picture taken prior to entering the party. If you hang at party for a minute or so your picture is printed and out on the table for you to grab on your way out. My wife's company's parties usually start around 3:00PM and end at 11:00 pm. And even the people that only show up to to See who's there stay for at least 20 minutes or so. Perhaps it is just the nature of my wife's work, but at these parties people do not all show up at one time, they seem to trickle in a few at a time over the length of the event. My wife works as a Black Jack dealer for a Casino (actually they have two casinos) so some people come after they get of work, some come before work and all of them work different shifts. Also one thing that helps is that the pictures are free to the guests so the photographers don't have to have someone dealing with selling them. You just walk up and a minute later your picture is out on the table waiting for you
All I know is that it works,
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Edward
Lenses listed in profile
All I know is that it works,
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Edward
Lenses listed in profile
PalmsWestPhoto
Forum Pro
For onsite printing a dye sub is the way to go
The Kodak 1400 is pretty much the best for starters. Works very well, awesome quality, good speed and good support.
Price for the printer is about 460 or so and consumables come out to 1.60 per 8x12 page
Fixed print cost per page, kodak professional logo on the back of the prints, not prone to clogging and such and can be transported without troubles.
negative you always have to print a full page and need to cut (generally not an issue)
Get a Kodak 1400 and QImage and you are all set
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Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
The Kodak 1400 is pretty much the best for starters. Works very well, awesome quality, good speed and good support.
Price for the printer is about 460 or so and consumables come out to 1.60 per 8x12 page
Fixed print cost per page, kodak professional logo on the back of the prints, not prone to clogging and such and can be transported without troubles.
negative you always have to print a full page and need to cut (generally not an issue)
Get a Kodak 1400 and QImage and you are all set
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Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
PalmsWestPhoto
Forum Pro
if you shoot that much you simply put 2 Kodak ML-500's there. Each one will do about 270 8x10's per hour so for 1000 you are done in 2 hours
you simply need to scale up to the right tools for the job
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Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
you simply need to scale up to the right tools for the job
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Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
Michael..thanks! Everyone seems to be sold on the Kodak 1400 so I'll give that some serious consideration. I'm also going to get some additional information from the little league president to find out the volume they need.
Frank from AZ
Senior Member
I've tried and gave up printing kid's events on site. But it also depends on your volume and the type of pictures you plan. Action pictures are particular tough, first you have cull out the bad ones and perhaps crop or post process them. That takes time in addition to the print time.
I have a Mitsu 9500 that prints out 3 4x6s a minute, which is not fast enough. Then you also have the problem of sorting the pics. How is everyone going to find their picture? You'll have a mob scene at you table with everything being pushed out of order (I know, I tried). Having said that, i am shooting a big volleyball tournament this weekend, there are 32 teams. I am taking team pictures only, so only have to process 32 pictures and let the printer go to work, the tourny will run 2 days, and I just give the coaches their team picture pack---32 people to deal with. That type of onsiting printing is do-able. Last week I shot a Naval Ship Reunion (USS Providence), we printed on site but again, we only had 90 couples and that was a challenge to get all the couples' pictures cropped, logo ps'd in and printed within our 3 hour time period. We printed 5x7s and the 9500 prints those out about 1.5 per minute or 2 every 3 minutes. As fast as I am with photoshop, it still takes time to crop, process and layer and of course download and take the pictures. Anything more than a 100 individual pictures is really pushing it unless you have multiple printers and people working.
The problem with kid's sports is that many times, the action happens within a short time period, the teams all play at the same time which makes picture taking difficult if your goal is capturing individual action shots. I've also found that venues where parents can get up close to the action are poor sellers as most will bring their own cameras. Sure, there are a few photo afficianados who appreciate a great pic over a marginal digicam pic, but most simply don't care, and sales reflect that.
I would recommend using web sales, bring several posters and samples of your work, signage and flyers, make sure everyone knows you are taking pictures and how to buy them.
Frank from Phoenix
Canon1DMk2,1D and lots of typos
I have a Mitsu 9500 that prints out 3 4x6s a minute, which is not fast enough. Then you also have the problem of sorting the pics. How is everyone going to find their picture? You'll have a mob scene at you table with everything being pushed out of order (I know, I tried). Having said that, i am shooting a big volleyball tournament this weekend, there are 32 teams. I am taking team pictures only, so only have to process 32 pictures and let the printer go to work, the tourny will run 2 days, and I just give the coaches their team picture pack---32 people to deal with. That type of onsiting printing is do-able. Last week I shot a Naval Ship Reunion (USS Providence), we printed on site but again, we only had 90 couples and that was a challenge to get all the couples' pictures cropped, logo ps'd in and printed within our 3 hour time period. We printed 5x7s and the 9500 prints those out about 1.5 per minute or 2 every 3 minutes. As fast as I am with photoshop, it still takes time to crop, process and layer and of course download and take the pictures. Anything more than a 100 individual pictures is really pushing it unless you have multiple printers and people working.
The problem with kid's sports is that many times, the action happens within a short time period, the teams all play at the same time which makes picture taking difficult if your goal is capturing individual action shots. I've also found that venues where parents can get up close to the action are poor sellers as most will bring their own cameras. Sure, there are a few photo afficianados who appreciate a great pic over a marginal digicam pic, but most simply don't care, and sales reflect that.
I would recommend using web sales, bring several posters and samples of your work, signage and flyers, make sure everyone knows you are taking pictures and how to buy them.
Frank from Phoenix
Canon1DMk2,1D and lots of typos
G du Preez
Well-known member
What works reasonable well for me is to print small proofs on an cheap A4 paper and display it as soon as possible before the end of the occasion. The people can then order pictures to be available the next day. Display examples of the final quality photos. Be prepared to work through the night.
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[email protected]
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[email protected]
Darrel LaBossiere
Senior Member
I would say that this is a crazy request from them and they are trying to take advantage of you. If this was such an important thing to have why are they not asking a pro that is already set up and in business to do it?
Bring another person with you, take shots and have the other person show the parents the pics on a monitor or a proof sheet and have order forms that they can fill out. This way they can order whatever size and/or package they want. If you try to do it on the spot you will only get grumpy parents that want to go home asking over and over when their's will be done.
I've never done this before, but at my boy's hockey games this is how they did it and it worked fine. One guy even just printed proof sheets as he went along and left them out on display with a stack of order forms next to them. Most people didn't buy any, but some did.
http://www.pbase.com/darrel_labossiere
Bring another person with you, take shots and have the other person show the parents the pics on a monitor or a proof sheet and have order forms that they can fill out. This way they can order whatever size and/or package they want. If you try to do it on the spot you will only get grumpy parents that want to go home asking over and over when their's will be done.
I've never done this before, but at my boy's hockey games this is how they did it and it worked fine. One guy even just printed proof sheets as he went along and left them out on display with a stack of order forms next to them. Most people didn't buy any, but some did.
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http://www.pbase.com/darrel_labossiere
PalmsWestPhoto
Forum Pro
Frank
It really isnt that hard if you are setup properly.
We simply use custom software that makes downloading and culling very easy.
For events like that where you dont have time it automatically assigns photos to subevents by time slots (for example every 15 or 30 minutes a new slot). That way parents can find their kids much faster.
We also started limiting the access people have to viewing stations. We still have some that are accessible to parents but have some now that are dual screen and driven only by us. That keeps them as real sale stations and not viewing stations for kids that simply want to see their pics but never buy.
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Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
It really isnt that hard if you are setup properly.
We simply use custom software that makes downloading and culling very easy.
For events like that where you dont have time it automatically assigns photos to subevents by time slots (for example every 15 or 30 minutes a new slot). That way parents can find their kids much faster.
We also started limiting the access people have to viewing stations. We still have some that are accessible to parents but have some now that are dual screen and driven only by us. That keeps them as real sale stations and not viewing stations for kids that simply want to see their pics but never buy.
--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
Frank from AZ
Senior Member
--How many participants typically at your events? How many viewing stations do you have and printers? My problem is my events typically have 500+ (as much as 1200) kids going through in less than 5 or 6 hours, and that has overwhelmed all my attempts to print on site and even give out free 3x5s of the kids with our logo and website. Our table was mobbed by 30-50 kids at a time and it made finding pics just about impossible. I would love to print out at events, I think the penetration would double or triple online sales given the emotional aspect of buying pictures. Did you write your own software? Do you have any events scheduled for November 10-14, I will be in Florida those days and would love to see your set up at an event. I am always looking for ways to improve the bottom line!
Frank from Phoenix
Canon1DMk2,1D and lots of typos
Frank from Phoenix
Canon1DMk2,1D and lots of typos
PalmsWestPhoto
Forum Pro
Frabk
it varies naturally but number of participants doesnt really change the equation much.
More participants, more work, more people required, more sales
You dont nessecarily have to print on site but IMO you do have to show and sell on site. We do print on site but not all of it. Some parents just want to order and some dont care but some do not buy if they cant get them on site.
We do both photography and also video and the software is custom written. It handles everything from import, culling and orders and is talking to QImage for printing and PS for editing (allthouhg we dont do much editing)
We have currently 6 laptops as viewing stations. Now that we do video we are a little short staffed. We have 3 photographers and 2 in sales and the printing and video is covered between all of us somehow.
I am planning on testing a wireless laptop at the photog location to do the uploads there but i am not sure how this turns out. It would take a lot of the sales booth though and no more running cards.
I am currently rewriting parts of the software in .net. Our software also handles the web site including automated uploads and then online order processing as well.
One thing i started doing that helps is to stop people from using the viewing stations by themselvs. We have added displays to the laptops so the customer only sees the LCD. The person in the booth drives the laptop
Cuts down a lot on the browsing kids and allows the parents to buy. We still have some open viewing stations as well.
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Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
it varies naturally but number of participants doesnt really change the equation much.
More participants, more work, more people required, more sales
You dont nessecarily have to print on site but IMO you do have to show and sell on site. We do print on site but not all of it. Some parents just want to order and some dont care but some do not buy if they cant get them on site.
We do both photography and also video and the software is custom written. It handles everything from import, culling and orders and is talking to QImage for printing and PS for editing (allthouhg we dont do much editing)
We have currently 6 laptops as viewing stations. Now that we do video we are a little short staffed. We have 3 photographers and 2 in sales and the printing and video is covered between all of us somehow.
I am planning on testing a wireless laptop at the photog location to do the uploads there but i am not sure how this turns out. It would take a lot of the sales booth though and no more running cards.
I am currently rewriting parts of the software in .net. Our software also handles the web site including automated uploads and then online order processing as well.
One thing i started doing that helps is to stop people from using the viewing stations by themselvs. We have added displays to the laptops so the customer only sees the LCD. The person in the booth drives the laptop
Cuts down a lot on the browsing kids and allows the parents to buy. We still have some open viewing stations as well.
--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
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