FZ30 review's up

Thanks for the detailed and even-handed review.
Anyone considering this camera will get a good idea
what to expect from it.
(Note: minor typo on p.5 -- should be
23.4MB for a TIFF, not 234MB -- I hope!)

This would have been a spectacular camera at 5-6MP,
and I seriously weighed upgrading from my FZ20,
but I was bothered by the lack of improvement in
the area of noise. One can only hope they're
listening and have plans for a lower MP FZ25...
--
emil
--



http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/fz20/bird_galleries_2005/

simon,

your rating seems a bit harsh to me. I've owned the s2is and if that is HR and this is 1 step below, something is VERY wrong here - very wrong. there is nothing the s2is does that the fz30 doesn't do better. I just can't think of a thing! yet the s2 gets a better grade. boggle.

think back at film bodies. each product cycle, did the 'image' improve any? hardly! cameras were still mostly lightboxes to hold lenses and film. the quality of the film and the lens was mostly your picture quality, NOT the camera. so by your thinking, each new generation of film camera should be worsely rated since the pic quality 'didn't improve'. most of the changes in each generation were feature improvements! my old f3hp could take pics just as well as a modern f5 or better. so since the image quality isn't better, maybe the latest nikon bodies should get 'dinged' in comparison to the old ones?

I have to say I disagree with your logic, simon. I respect your views but on this, I think you're wrong. to expect picture quality to ALWAYS increase is to ask too much. every so often, its fine to bump up the usability or features and keep the PQ roughly the same. that's exactly what happend this iteration - the fz30 fixes most of the usability flaws of the 20 and built on the good tech of the fz5. I see the fz30 as only a step up in features and a step sideways (same leve) in PQ. but this should not have gotton it a lower rating than its previous model.

I know you expected more - we all did - but its not realistic to keep expecting PQ to improve in EVERY generation. lets see what you do on canon - if the follow-on to the s2is isn't BETTER than the s2is, I expect the same treatment for the canon camp - lower its rating if they don't fix the image flaws in the s2is AND also improve its usability. (if there ever IS an s2is follow-on).

--
bryan, http://www.grateful.net , http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works
just one man beneath the sky, just two ears, just two eyes -PF

arthur said:

And suppose one does not need those extra megapixels to crop. Is
there a best way to turn a noisy 8 megapixel shot into a great 5
megapixel shot, i.e. downsize while making the best use of all that
extra information.

Click to expand...

I don't see the use of doing that Arthur, I use ACDSEE to view my pictures full-screen or print them. The only time I view them @ 100% is when I'm postprocessing my images.

The pictures are fine for thier intended purpose/target market. it is not a DSLR. Everyone needs to get a life. If you don't like the FZ--30, then focus on something else (pardon the pun). Right now, this represents what the industry can do in regard to an all-in-one super-zoom unit that is of "reasonable" siize and weight. Engineering is the science of tradeoffs. If you want to change the criteria (bigger physical size, smaller telephoto reach, etc.) then maybe there is something worth discussing. But then, it is not an FZ-30. It would be better to start another thread instead of incessantly bashing the FZ-30.

--
JF

I am shure the way You offer is right. External noise reduction on the pc.

But what is when you have to convert several hundreds of shots (as a result of a journey, a photo session) in this way? Even in a batch job it is very time consuming.

The better way would be to produce less noise. Nevertheless i am glad to have Neat Image. Tools like this are necessary for non DSLRs.
Wolfgang

Thanks for the clarification.

It was bad that a very good camera (FZ30) has this noisy CCD sensor. I would have prefered a 6Mp sensor (same size) with less noise than the 8MP CCD with so much noise at ISO 400. Even the 7Mp sensor available for cameras like the Nikon 7900 or Canon SD500 has better high ISO results...

Regards,
Alvaro.

P.D: Nice comparison between several cameras (A200, FZ20, EOS XT).

Maybe the price is an issue which determines the final rating?

The FZ 30 lowest price is £470 in the UK.
The S2 IS lowest price is £330 in the UK.

They are both great cameras despite noise issues. However, the S2 is much cheaper.

Everyone wants DSLR image quality with a state of the art 35-420 zoom lens, excellent low-light performance, can't be too big and bulky, either. And we seem to want those megapixels, dont we? And we want all this for... $600? $1000? I'd pay more than $1000. $1500? But let's face it, the FZ-30 pictures are fine for thier intended purpose/target market. It is not a DSLR. Repeat: not DSLR. The way it was hyped (by whom I don't know) was misleading as set the wrong expectation. If people don't like the FZ-30, then focus on something else (pardon the pun) and get over it. Right now, apparently, this represents the best the industry can produce regard to an all-in-one CCD super-zoom unit that is of "reasonable" siize and weight. The S9000 has its issues. The Sony and Olympus don't offer the long telephoto. The CP8800 is a joke. Engineering is the science of tradeoffs. If you want to change the criteria (bigger physical size, smaller telephoto reach, etc.) then maybe there is something worth discussing. But then, it is not an FZ-30. It would be better to start another thread instead of incessantly bashing the FZ-30.

--
JF

S2 Si said:

Maybe the price is an issue which determines the final rating?

The FZ 30 lowest price is £470 in the UK.
The S2 IS lowest price is £330 in the UK.

Click to expand...

The FZ30 price will go down, compare it to the introduction price of the S2 IS in your country.

When the S2 first came out it was £360. (I bought one).

That is still £110 cheaper than the FZ30.

FOR GOODNESS SAKE, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS! Considering waht you get, this is an inexpensive camera. If people are REALLY into big image blow-ups, then go DSLR and stop whining! Everyone wants DSLR image quality with a state of the art 35-420 zoom lens, excellent low-light performance, can't be too big and bulky, either. And we seem to want those megapixels, dont we? And we want all this for... $600? $1000? I'd pay more than $1000. $1500? The FZ-30's pictures are fine for thier intended purpose/target market and for 99.5% of the time we shoot! It is not a DSLR. Repeat: not DSLR. The way it was hyped (by whom I don't know) was misleading as set the wrong expectation. If people don't like the FZ-30, then focus on something else (pardon the pun) and get over it. Right now, apparently, this represents the best the industry can produce regard to an all-in-one CCD super-zoom unit that is of "reasonable" siize and weight. The S9000 has its issues. The Sony and Olympus don't offer the long telephoto. The CP8800 is a joke. Engineering is the science of tradeoffs. If you want to change the criteria (bigger physical size, smaller telephoto reach, etc.) then maybe there is something worth discussing. But then, if you change the criteria, it is not an FZ-30 anymore. It would be better to start another thread instead ("my ideal camera" -- which, of course, the industry can't actually procude at the moment). Why keep bashing the FZ-30? It is what it is -- pretty darn good!

--
JF

It was a good review, and its clear that anyone who has bought the camera should be happy with their purchase, I used one and it is good. In a way the negative reaction is partly due to expectations not being met/ In the fast moving tech field of digital cameras, people have a right to expect notable improvements in quality.

Panasonic delivered this in the handling areas, but in the image one it didnt hit the mark as well. I for one am not convinced its a good idea to upgrade your FZ-20 or 5 on the basis of the noise issue and the unimproved image quality! If the image quality was better then this would have been the hot seller of the year

On the other hand those who have should be content with a good camera, but as ever things continue to develope. Maybe it would have been prudent to hang on there for a while. dont write off small sensors yet, the technology will get better.

One thing is clear though, any digital camera purchase should be done so with caution. Digital is still way more expensive than a film camera (body cost) about 3 times! Consumers should expect the best for their money, and at nearly £500 in the uk for the 30, its not good enough for me anyway. The FZ-5 is the hot superzoom still, with a great price!

It is right that all cameras get a good test and sometimes get a hard time, after all you want to buy a good one!

So in short be happy with your camera, and remember it the person behind it that does the skillful thing! Not the gizmos!

Full ack.
The FZ30 is not a DSLR. Comparisons with DSLRs are not fair.

The noise is an argument, a severe argument, a very severe argument. But not the only one. A picture is more than an assembly of pixels. I remember the projection of slides on a 60' to 75' wall, sitting away just about 100'. Even with low ISO-films one could see grain. In the sky. One has not been happy, but it has been accepted. The picture has been the reason to look at it.

I would like to have a compact camera with nearly no noise. But unfortunately it is obviously not possible today. Therefore lovers of available low light must use a DSLR, I think.
Wolfgang

You won't see anything when you are totally in love
with your new bride. She is perfect.

alien

Leitz said:

Leitz said:

poor contrast focusing system defys logic.

Click to expand...

The high speed focussing system on the FZ30 is almost instant, I
don't see the problem?

Click to expand...

Oh my "bride" is not perfect, but can you point me in the direction of a better fixed lens 12x Camera? I bet you can't. I'll dump her for the "perfect" model in a second.

alien3333 said:

You won't see anything when you are totally in love
with your new bride. She is perfect.

alien

Click to expand...

--
Jeff



Link for Gallery: http://atomicfish.smugmug.com

Don't fret Gene:

I believe Simon is giving a subjective opinion on Dynamic Range (DR.) I really think it was rather harsh that he subsequently concluded that the Fz30 had "Limited dynamic range, highlight clipping in JPEGs." I did not see any specific dynamic range testing in his testing and only noted one mention of it in while comparing the Fz30 to the Rebel XT with super-optics.

In-camera DR assessment (I believe) has to do with exposure (+ - EV) latitude. Staring with a "perfect" exposure (da!), detail/colors in shadows (dark areas) should be "just-right" while the detail/colors in highlights (bright areas) should also be OK, aka not "blown." Apparently, the Fz30's default exposure settings tend to clip (blow highlights.) This is either an indication of bad exposure or poor DR, or both.

This is the same problem with my CP8800 in daylight. So, in most cases, I set the exposure compensation to -1/3EV. Issue solved and the CP8800's IQ at ISO50 remain (IMO) as unbeatable.

DR (to me) really means the amount of post-processing flexibility/latitude. Often one has extract more detail (from Shadow/dark areas) while avoiding blowing (washing-out) the highlight (bright areas.) From the Fz30 sample I have played with, I find i's DR quite workable. I'll know more when my Fz30 arrives.

Hope this helps.

==============
johnimage

============================

genece said:

hamster_ken said:

cons :
Limited dynamic range

what it means?

Click to expand...

I do not understand that either I think it has much better range
the FZ20.

Limited compared to what?

I have no photographic skills and that must mean I do not have the
same needs in a camera as somone that has "Skills"

I really appreciated the FZ cameras as they allowed me to take
better photos than any camera I had previously tried.

And the FZ30 just goes a step or two beyond that.

--
Gene
From Western PA.

Panasonic FZ-10 and FZ 20 and FZ30
B300
T Con 17 --two Tcon 14Bs -- Raynox 2020 pro -- DCR 720
http://imageevent.com/grc6/toshareonnet



Just trying to learn and it's slow going!

Click to expand...

--
johnimage

Your review confirmed my gut feeling I had when I was choosing between the FZ20 and FZ30. I dunno, I just had a feeling the 20 was the better of the two. And some of the images I have seen posted recently seem to confirm it.

At a glance, the Sony H1, with the same pixel size, seems to have less noise. However, I suspect that there is even heavier NR here as images do have a plastic look in places. It may be that this really is about as good as it gets with a small sensor/lens. As a possible alternative, I looked at some photos taken at the long zoom end of a cheapish Sigma 70-300 APO zoom lens. All I can say is, I'd rather have the noise.

"FZ 30 has bags of detail"
--

"The FZ30 sets new standards for resolution in this class of camera, with clean, moiré-free results that pretty much go off the end of the chart."

--



Smile and nod at those who say it can't be done
http://www.pbase.com/ramblin_mo/galleries
Oly C8o8oWZ, Oly FL -36 flash
Can DR 3ooD Can 18-55,17 -85 IS, 75 -300 D0 IS
Panasonic F Z 5K
Panasonic F Zee thirty K
Qimage, PSP 9.1

Please go troll another forum Alien, I'm getting sick of your sarcasm!

alien3333 said:

alien

Leitz said:

alien3333 said:

poor contrast focusing system defys logic.

Click to expand...

The high speed focussing system on the FZ30 is almost instant, I
don't see the problem?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...