S80 and Canon,the real story

That's right! Theoretically speaking, RAW could be enabled with a fw update in this model. This way only advanced users would bother to add that option by updating the fw. Or Canon could relase a S85 for that, as I mentioned in another thread! This way they can claim they have a larger range of 'new' products lol

XGA movie mode is indeed impressive. This may be what makes me upgrade from my trusty old S400.

AStater said:

XGA movie mode is indeed impressive.

Click to expand...

Agreed (in that it's a first AFAIK), but it's a real shame that it's only at 15fps.

I just got off the phone with canon, there will not be a firmware upgrade for the s80 that will include raw mode.(((((
--
frank d
I have a Nikon D2X & Canon 20d
They get along just fine together.
http://www.pbase.com/frangee/photos_by_frangee

too bad man,

I'll have to wait a little longer than coz there is no way i get the s80 without RAW in the arsenal

Indeed, but it lacks 30fps in XGA mode and optical zoom in all modes!
Booth could made the S80 a top seller by itself.

Too bad to hear it.

why they did not try better answer, something like this :

• We still not yet decided that we will include the RAW support in the next firmware upgrade.

But if the user/market really good and need it Canon will consider it.

I think this is the best to make all happy.
and if it is true that many user want it why not provide it ?

ANAYV

Canon definitely will not provide RAW via firmware upgrade because it would be nonsense - fm upgrades are not supposed to significally extend the feature set of the device, their main purpose to fix issues, not make the device the new capabilities (that would make another model like S40-> S45 etc.).

The fact Canon removed RAW support from S-series can indirectly indicate that the new high-end prosumer is on its way (either as entirely new series like M1 or Z1, or Pro2 or Pro3 / G7/G8/G9). That's all about market segmentation and cutting expences on extras not used by 98% of the target customers' workflows.

IMHO it would be an overhead trying to shot RAW with the sensor and lens like in S-series.

-V-

Hey folks, slip over to the Fuji forum for a second and click the "Pictures from Paris" thread. The F10 photos will blow you away. This pocketable P&S camera is priced way below the S80 or S70; it delivers stunning pictures.

I have been eyeing the S70 because of the wide angle, then the S80 was announced and I was trying to decide whether to wait for that. But recently, Fuji has been offering the cleanest photo quality. If the lens was wider, I'd be ordering a F10 today. gp

What's wrong with the sensor and lens of S series?

S60/70 share the same sensor as G5/6. Their lenses only exhibit slight corner softness and vignetting when used wide open at 28mm, otherwise the images produced are sharp. Why do you think S series is not suitable for capturing RAW?

--
Kind regards from a DP beginner(350D + S60).
http://www.pbase.com/knight_parn

Vik said:

Canon definitely will not provide RAW via firmware upgrade because
it would be nonsense - fm upgrades are not supposed to significally
extend the feature set of the device, their main purpose to fix
issues, not make the device the new capabilities ...

Click to expand...

Vik,

It wouldn't be the first time - Nikon did just that, a firmware update that added a RAW setting for their Coolpix 5400, although that model had a TIFF mode from the start!

Unfortunately both types of file took an age to save, during most of which time the camera was locked out of most controls.
--
Peter
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde

gary:

Yes, the ones taken at 800 and 1600 ISO are impressive. The others are nice but not that unusual.

--mamallama

gary payne said:

Hey folks, slip over to the Fuji forum for a second and click the
"Pictures from Paris" thread. The F10 photos will blow you away.
This pocketable P&S camera is priced way below the S80 or S70; it
delivers stunning pictures.

I have been eyeing the S70 because of the wide angle, then the S80
was announced and I was trying to decide whether to wait for that.
But recently, Fuji has been offering the cleanest photo quality.
If the lens was wider, I'd be ordering a F10 today. gp

Click to expand...

Isola Verde said:

It wouldn't be the first time - Nikon did just that, a firmware
update that added a RAW setting for their Coolpix 5400, although
that model had a TIFF mode from the start!

Unfortunately both types of file took an age to save, during most
of which time the camera was locked out of most controls.
--

Click to expand...

The S70 was very fast with handling RAWE files.Faster than most other compacts,using RAW.

It's just weird not including it.

They saved money,perhaps....but look how many so far have decided not to buy it,strickly because of the lack of RAW.

It's still an impressive camera,but for now,so is my S70

ANAYV
S70 lens isn't so bad,IMHO.

Isola Verde said:

Peter
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde

Click to expand...

ANAYV said:

They saved money,perhaps....but look how many so far have decided
not to buy it,strickly because of the lack of RAW.

It's still an impressive camera,but for now,so is my S70

Click to expand...

The reasoning given is the potential support problems for people "accidentally" (or otherwise) using RAW - who may not be aware of the extra steps involved - in getting a viewable/usable photo.
Eg: taking a (SD) memory card to a printing booth to get prints......

One has to remember what Canon thinks is its market for the S80 - I am guessing it's those people who may want to "upgrade" because they find limitations in the ELPH/ixUs type SD- series who want more versatility.

Although the A-series will do that (also NO RAW) - the A-series would be generally regarded as a step down in series whereas the S80 type series is regarded as step up.

Please don't get me wrong the RAW is a serious ommission for some - but I think Canon's marketing don't normally make rash decisions - for those they displease - they may save a whole bunch on avoided potential problems.... but there's always the famous "New Coke" example one can cite too

Personally, unless I am doing some scientific or "forensic" type photography - I could easily do it with a camera without RAW - although I would still miss the RAW option -

in practice I use regular default Fine JPG (not even SuperFine) for my everyday shooting, and although I know there must be a loss in quality somewhere - I don't see it in my day-to-day shooting - and I do a LOT of photography - well over 5,600 shots on my S70 since June/7/2005......
and yes, I do take my photography "seriously" - of course YMMV

So like ANAYV, I am also pleased I have a S70 already (I didn't "wait" for its replacement, when I needed to buy a digicam) -

In the S70 we do have the option of RAW - and between the outstanding 7Mp of the S70 and that of the 8Mp on the S80 - I don't think is going to make much significant difference - at least for me... YMMV (for instance I don't use the movie mode - so it's not a major consideration for me)

Please see this post -
S70 and the new S80
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=14790035
in the long thread about the S70.

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVT2005.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.Net
http://UnknownVincent.cjb.Net

Well, sure S80 or even Ixus/A-series could have RAW as the option. What I mean that Canon just have to compete tough on price with that compact camera market, so basically they eliminating the least used features (according to their market research sources). The lens is another story. It's a grade lower than in G/Pro-series, so that justifies removing such pro-features as RAW. Following that way, shouldn't be a big surprise if manual modes in S90 would be replaced with a bunch of scene modes (like anti-blur in Fuji 9000).

15 fps movie is choppy, even @1600x1200. With 30 fps and you got 1GB memory filled within 4½ minutes (if would be included in better S80 movie resolution). To be usable, both 30 fps AND some video compression (prferably one of the standard MPEG4 AVC profiles) are the requirements.

yes, it has an impressive nightshot capability with high ISO.. very clean!

I have the Sanon S-45 and am very glad to own it; I might consider to purchase the S-80, when the coming reviews give reason to do so.

What I cannot understand is the fact that ANAVY is telling us time and again about the improvements of the S-80 against the S-70.
Dear Anavy, why.
Regards,
J.Alcántara

Vik said:

Well, sure S80 or even Ixus/A-series could have RAW as the option.
What I mean that Canon just have to compete tough on price with
that compact camera market, so basically they eliminating the least
used features (according to their market research sources). The
lens is another story. It's a grade lower than in G/Pro-series, so
that justifies removing such pro-features as RAW. Following that
way, shouldn't be a big surprise if manual modes in S90 would be
replaced with a bunch of scene modes (like anti-blur in Fuji 9000).

Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense.

If Canon were to change many 'high end' options on the s series,I think they would just start a new series,

The S series is known to be high end in control,but ,in a small package.

Full manual exposure control,built in flash output control,Manual focus,and RAW are all trademarks of the S series.

I doubtyou'd see them remove manual modes,in exchange for more scene modes,on the S series..

They'll just call it another name.Start a new series.

The lens on the S30/40/45/50/60/70/80 has always been impressive,for it's size.Because of it's size,it doesn't gather much light,especially when zooming in..But it's always captured high resolution.

DPreview reviewers, seem to like the S series lens,over the Carl Zeiss lens,that Sony uses.

For years,the S series lens would get the same detail/resolution on the test charts,as the G series did.Only the G series was faster(bigger lens),and was sharper at the corners.

Same size sensors are used in the G series and the S series.

Canon even considers it a 'high end' camera,above their 'point and shoot' cameras.Probable because of the full manual control,manual focus,and RAW.

Perhaps the S80 willl start a new trend of the S series.

I say,if you change it too much,call it something else.

American Car manufacterers are really bad with this.

Compare the old Nova,LeMans,Grand Prix,and others,that are so different from there ancestors,it aint even funny.

So,will the S85/90 have RAW
:> )

ANAYV

But it also had as much,or even more CA than the S series lens did.