Reading mode: Light Dark

Best Landscapes: H1 or 828???

Go to last post
D

Diogo Mattoso

Active member
Messages
96
Reaction score
0
Location
Rio de Janeiro, BR
I've noticed that almost all of my pictures were taken using full wide. So, which camera would produce better landscapes shots in terms of sharpness, captured detail etc..

I've read here in STF that between 828 and V3, the former produces better landscapes images. What about the H1?

Thanks,
 
I use my 828 for landscapes a lot and I like the quality. Ihave compared to other cameras . Notably the Oly E1.

But I here from AAK and others that the H1 has picure quality and dynamic range that is just as good. The H1 has very good bokeh too.

http://downunderphotos.blogspot.com/

Your move
--
Steve
 
Steve, thaks for your post.

Is there a big difference between F828's 28mm to H1's 36mm?

Considering the Panasonic Fz-30 it seems this camera would be useless if you don't have something less than perfect lighting. Maybe Fz-20 would be a better choice. Although I don't shoot much in low light, some flexibility is nice. Just thought about Fz30 because of its price.

Last weekend I injured my kee while taking some pictures inside a greenhouse in an Orchidarium. Since it took a long time (30 sec. per shot) to get the right exposure with this camera and I had to keep halp-pressing the shutter until I got it right I injured my knee. ;)
 
You can't say one or the other is definitely better, but they're very different.

The H1 takes photos with extreme crispness, particularly in the foreground. If you shoot pics with trees or leaves in the foreground, the lens is amazing.

However, I've always found the F828 soft at distance. The foregrounds of my many landscapes are gorgeous, but the hills in the distance are blotchy and lacking detail. Almost like they're in haze, even when there is no haze.

I've found F828 skies to be pretty good, but sometimes washed out with too much cyan.

The H1, on the other hand takes an entirely different picture. It generally has a much shallower depth-of-field unless focusing on the far distance at high aperture (f7.1 or f8). So, if you're shooting the middle distance or the far distance, you can get amazing detail - detail that I've never been able to get with the H1. But if you have foreground, the rest of the scene will be beautifully blurred, but blurred nonetheless.

I much prefer the out-of-camera colors of the H1. The tone curve they built into that camera is amazing. It's so beautifully distributed that you can get lovely saturated flesh tones, dream-like blue skies and glinting brights all at the same time.

By boosting the midtones, the camera gets a much more usable dynamic range where you can get beautifully illuminated images without blown highlights or darkened shadows.

My summary: for foreground and middle distance, the F828 is better. For middle distance and full distance (and keep in mind that the 12X lens gives you a much closer "full distance" than you can get with the F828)

My gut feeling, having taken thousands of pictures with both cameras, is that the H1 is simply newer and the images better than the out-of-the-camera images from the F828.

Now if they add a hotshoe, accessory port, laser AF and a few other things, we'll have the best of both worlds!
--
AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
 
Hi Alan,

I always read your H1 to 828 comparisons...

From which i can conclude that in most cases H1 gets a better out of the camera image. I never held it in my hands so i dont check myself. But H1 is a camera of different class than 828 thus it has heavier in camera processing. So its not a big surprise the images are coming better out of the camera. But let me ask you a question :

What setting do you use with 828 ? I use Real color and everything (sat,cont,sharp) set to normal. But if i want straight out of the camera image i will use +1 on some of these and maybe normal color mode. The images come out crispier and sharper. I wasnt expirimenting too much with that because i prefer to manual postprocess in most cases but i wonder how such images would compare to H1 (set to default) ? Yes there maybe lots of combinations... but maybe its possible to get somth close to H1 from 828 (i mean color, details, sharpness etc...)

--
MadCat108

http://madcat.net.tc


AAK said:
You can't say one or the other is definitely better, but they're
very different.

The H1 takes photos with extreme crispness, particularly in the
foreground. If you shoot pics with trees or leaves in the
foreground, the lens is amazing.

However, I've always found the F828 soft at distance. The
foregrounds of my many landscapes are gorgeous, but the hills in
the distance are blotchy and lacking detail. Almost like they're in
haze, even when there is no haze.

I've found F828 skies to be pretty good, but sometimes washed out
with too much cyan.

The H1, on the other hand takes an entirely different picture. It
generally has a much shallower depth-of-field unless focusing on
the far distance at high aperture (f7.1 or f8). So, if you're
shooting the middle distance or the far distance, you can get
amazing detail - detail that I've never been able to get with the
H1. But if you have foreground, the rest of the scene will be
beautifully blurred, but blurred nonetheless.

I much prefer the out-of-camera colors of the H1. The tone curve
they built into that camera is amazing. It's so beautifully
distributed that you can get lovely saturated flesh tones,
dream-like blue skies and glinting brights all at the same time.

By boosting the midtones, the camera gets a much more usable
dynamic range where you can get beautifully illuminated images
without blown highlights or darkened shadows.

My summary: for foreground and middle distance, the F828 is better.
For middle distance and full distance (and keep in mind that the
12X lens gives you a much closer "full distance" than you can get
with the F828)

My gut feeling, having taken thousands of pictures with both
cameras, is that the H1 is simply newer and the images better than
the out-of-the-camera images from the F828.

Now if they add a hotshoe, accessory port, laser AF and a few other
things, we'll have the best of both worlds!
--
AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
Click to expand...
 
828 is the only camera I own so i can't compare.

But Landscapes its one of the areas this camera excels in.

First the 28mm is a big improvement from 36mm and if you took all your photos on wide angle you will like the 28mm... , 200mm is enough for landscapes in most cases. Also the sharper f2.0 lens can give you nice handheld shots even at sunset times. (iso64-100)

Yes you will have to postprocess all your images to get the most out of it (assuming default settings). But the results are good.

Many times i couldn't resist of shooting against the sun... i know i know... but the results are dramatic and breathtaking... The amount of details this camera can capture is amazing. Yes sometimes the details and colors are hidden under a haze or darkness... but the moment I load in photoshop i'm amazed each time...

There are a few images only on my gallery but you can check if you wish...
(select the higher resolution on the top right corner)

http://madcat.negimaki.com/gallery2/v/Landscapes/
http://madcat.negimaki.com/gallery2/v/panoramas/





--
MadCat108

http://madcat.net.tc


Diogo Mattoso said:
I've noticed that almost all of my pictures were taken using full
wide. So, which camera would produce better landscapes shots in
terms of sharpness, captured detail etc..

I've read here in STF that between 828 and V3, the former produces
better landscapes images. What about the H1?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
 
If you want to know which is best then try both cameras ;-)

As for me I will probably get the H1 for Christmas and have the best of both worlds!

Seriously though I don't consider either camera to be out of reach to the ordinary consumer. They are both affordable as far a I can tell. I don't think you will be disappointed...

http://downunderphotos.blogspot.com/

I concur with AAk's view on the 828. Yes it does seem to make the horizon look hazy. You can trust his judgement - he is a pro and he takes really nice pix IMHO.

Off the topic: I do wish Sony would make sort of announcement. There are a lot of frustrated people on this forum because of their attitude right now.

The competition seems to be stealing a march on them.

What are they up to?

Your move....

Take the plunge into digital photography - go on you know you want to. It's great fun and as a bonus you all these really nice people on line to chat with!! hehehehe

--
Steve
 
Setev said:
Seriously though I don't consider either camera to be out of reach
to the ordinary consumer. They are both affordable as far a I can
tell.
Click to expand...
Maybe for US citizens.... :)
Setev said:
Off the topic: I do wish Sony would make sort of announcement.
There are a lot of frustrated people on this forum because of their

attitude right now. The competition seems to be stealing a march on > them. What are they up to?
Click to expand...
Yep... I dont understand them. They r really loosing their customers. Ok they may not to reveal their strategy but still at least the "soon we'll release new models" announcment would help.... But i think there is too much panic on this area... They will release new models... its just they have some marketing strategy and a specific order they release the models... once you bought the 939 u wont go to H1 and once u bought the H1 u wont go to V3 .... so....

Also maybe they have problems we dont know about... example the problem with CarlZeiss to produce IS lens...

--
MadCat108

http://madcat.net.tc

 
I thought there were good discounts available for the 828 at the moment.

Have Sony stopped making the 828 overseas? I don't know...

It is still available here in New Zealand.

From a New Zealand prespective the prices are as follows:

f828 retails here for about $1700-1800

H1 retails here for about $800-$900 which is half price I think it is a good deal here in NZ for the H1.

The Nikon D70 retails between $2000 - 2500 NZ .
The D50 is about $1700 which is roughly the same price as the Canon 350D

One camera that is being heavily discounted here at the mo is the Olympus E-1 for about $1000. Normally it retails for $3000NZ

If I was looking for a good digital camera at the moment I would buy the H1.

--
Steve
 
Thanks all of you,

Anyone had the chance to use/compare H1 to those cameras I mentioned? As far as I know, Canon G6 seems to produce better images than H1. I didn't like the comparison photos of S2 IS vs. Sony H1 shootout at DCResource. H1 look better.

Don't know about the FZ20. All the reviews I read generally consider FZ20 the best ultrazoom available. What's your opinion?

Here in Brazil there are two price ranges. I can get Panasonic FZ20, Sony H1, Canon G6, Sony V3 for almost the same price. Sony F828, Nikon Coolpix 8800, Canon Powershot Pro1 and Panasonic Fz-30 are selling for 45-50% more money.
 
MadCat108 said:
828 is the only camera I own so i can't compare.

But Landscapes its one of the areas this camera excels in.
First the 28mm is a big improvement from 36mm and if you took all
your photos on wide angle you will like the 28mm... , 200mm is
enough for landscapes in most cases. Also the sharper f2.0 lens can
give you nice handheld shots even at sunset times. (iso64-100)
Click to expand...
Great pictures, MadCat!

My galley is here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59277507@N00/sets/833667/

There's also another set.. Please feel free to criticize and give me any advice. I need it since I've taken less than 200 picture so far in my whole life (including film). ;)
 
I live in Israel. And just now the price of sony 828 dropped to 1000+ USD

But lets take into account that Electronics Engineer (few years only expirience) who is working in a big hi-tech company like Intel, Motorola etc... is getting about 1500 USD per month.

I guess such engineer will get about 5000-6000$ in US ?

So compared to selary its same like the camera costs 4000$ in US.

Would anyone in US buy sony 828 now for 4000$ ???

And Israel is still not that bad place...

These cameras are simply not affrodable for most of the people.

--
MadCat108

http://madcat.net.tc


Setev said:
I thought there were good discounts available for the 828 at the
moment.

Have Sony stopped making the 828 overseas? I don't know...

It is still available here in New Zealand.

From a New Zealand prespective the prices are as follows:

f828 retails here for about $1700-1800

H1 retails here for about $800-$900 which is half price I think it
is a good deal here in NZ for the H1.

The Nikon D70 retails between $2000 - 2500 NZ .
The D50 is about $1700 which is roughly the same price as the Canon
350D

One camera that is being heavily discounted here at the mo is the
Olympus E-1 for about $1000. Normally it retails for $3000NZ

If I was looking for a good digital camera at the moment I would
buy the H1.

--
Steve
Click to expand...
 
Decided to post again, since it was lost in the middle of the thread.

Thanks all of you,

Anyone had the chance to use/compare H1 to those cameras I mentioned? As far as I know, Canon G6 seems to produce better images than H1. I didn't like the comparison photos of S2 IS vs. Sony H1 shootout at DCResource. H1 look better.

Don't know about the FZ20. All the reviews I read generally consider FZ20 the best ultrazoom available. What's your opinion?

Here in Brazil there are two price ranges. I can get Panasonic FZ20, Sony H1, Canon G6, Sony V3 for almost the same price. Sony F828, Nikon Coolpix 8800, Canon Powershot Pro1 and Panasonic Fz-30 are selling for 45-50% more money.
 
Decided to post again, since it was lost in the middle of the thread.

Thanks all of you,

Anyone had the chance to use/compare H1 to those cameras I mentioned? As far as I know, Canon G6 seems to produce better images than H1. I didn't like the comparison photos of S2 IS vs. Sony H1 shootout at DCResource. H1 look better.

Don't know about the FZ20. All the reviews I read generally consider FZ20 the best ultrazoom available. What's your opinion?

Here in Brazil there are two price ranges. I can get Panasonic FZ20, Sony H1, Canon G6, Sony V3 for almost the same price. Sony F828, Nikon Coolpix 8800, Canon Powershot Pro1 and Panasonic Fz-30 are selling for 45-50% more money.
 
I never use real mode. I didn't like the effect on some of the colors, particularly red, which I felt picked up just a touch of a "brownish" tint, if you know what I mean.

I used many different settings on the F828 depending on what I was shooting. Over almost two years, I tried almost everything :)

However, nothing in the settings can change the curves - the relationship between the highs-lows and the midrange. Which makes a huge difference in the nature of your photographs. It equalizes your brights and midtones.

Let me give you an example.

I almost always used a neutral-density gradient filter when shooting landscapes with the F828. Skies got so bleached (not necessarily blown out, just discolored to pale cyan) when metering for the land in the landscape.

So, the first day I used the H1, I used my ND gradient. In the LCD, it looked just fine. When I printed the pictures the skies looked very dark and depressing. But the images on which I didn't use the ND filter were perfect - they had these amazingly lovely baby-blue skies (not the fake cobalt skies of a polarizing filter, either).

This is something you just can't do in the F828 no matter what settings you change, because the settings affect -all- the colors in -all- the ranges.

This is a problem in DSLRs too. I have a Nikon D70s, and the camera meters for and produces pictures that are slightly underexposed and too contrasty. This is a known issue. Fortunately, Nikon supports the downloading of curves, which support many parameters, including the relationship between brightest and darkest and everything inbetween. The most popular, currently, seems to be one called sReala, which emulates the color, contrast and brightness of Fuji Reala film - with its heightened midtones and, as a result, lowered extremes.

The H1 looks very much like that, right out of the camera. That's what blew me away: a perfectly colored and exposed face against a deep, lush, green landscape with an exquisitely washed sky above. With no post-processing and no settings - except that I generally shoot .3 EV dark to preserve details. Just in case.

Here is one of the very first lanscapes I took with the H1. It may give you an idea of what I mean:



Look at the lush colors of the sky, the water, the sun-dappling in the foreground.

Here's one of the best landscapes I ever took with the F828. It's a very good picture, IMHO. And the F828 is a very good camera. But compare the sky and the look of the island in the river to the land and sky in the H1 picture. Hopefully, you'll see what I see :)



Note the reflection of the sky in the river (same river, BTW, same sky conditions). Huge difference between the two. In the F828, if I nailed the sky, the trees and fisherman would have been underexposed. I couldn't use my ND gradient on this one because there's no way to filter the reflection of the sky in the water!

So I sacrifice the sky for the benefit of the foreground.

Due to its the dynamic range of the, I don't have to sacrifice either using the H1.

I believe this is mostly, if not entirely, a result of the different curves of the two cameras. Camera manufacturers are finally paying attention to the curves their cameras and in-camera processing produce. And they're getting it better.

I'm sure that if there is another F-series camera, it will have better built-in curves, as well.

Hope this explains what I mean...

http://www.aakatz.com/
--
AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
 
I never use real mode. I didn't like the effect on some of the colors, particularly red, which I felt picked up just a touch of a "brownish" tint, if you know what I mean.

I used many different settings on the F828 depending on what I was shooting. Over almost two years, I tried almost everything :)

However, nothing in the settings can change the curves - the relationship between the highs-lows and the midrange. Which makes a huge difference in the nature of your photographs. It equalizes your brights and midtones.

Let me give you an example.

I almost always used a neutral-density gradient filter when shooting landscapes with the F828. Skies got so bleached (not necessarily blown out, just discolored to pale cyan) when metering for the land in the landscape.

So, the first day I used the H1, I used my ND gradient. In the LCD, it looked just fine. When I printed the pictures the skies looked very dark and depressing. But the images on which I didn't use the ND filter were perfect - they had these amazingly lovely baby-blue skies (not the fake cobalt skies of a polarizing filter, either).

This is something you just can't do in the F828 no matter what settings you change, because the settings affect -all- the colors in -all- the ranges.

This is a problem in DSLRs too. I have a Nikon D70s, and the camera meters for and produces pictures that are slightly underexposed and too contrasty. This is a known issue. Fortunately, Nikon supports the downloading of curves, which support many parameters, including the relationship between brightest and darkest and everything inbetween. The most popular, currently, seems to be one called sReala, which emulates the color, contrast and brightness of Fuji Reala film - with its heightened midtones and, as a result, lowered extremes.

The H1 looks very much like that, right out of the camera. That's what blew me away: a perfectly colored and exposed face against a deep, lush, green landscape with an exquisitely washed sky above. With no post-processing and no settings - except that I generally shoot .3 EV dark to preserve details. Just in case.

Here is one of the very first lanscapes I took with the H1. It may give you an idea of what I mean:



Look at the lush colors of the sky, the water, the sun-dappling in the foreground.

Here's one of the best landscapes I ever took with the F828. It's a very good picture, IMHO. And the F828 is a very good camera. But compare the sky and the look of the island in the river to the land and sky in the H1 picture. Hopefully, you'll see what I see :)



Note the reflection of the sky in the river (same river, BTW, same sky conditions). Huge difference between the two. In the F828, if I nailed the sky, the trees and fisherman would have been underexposed. I couldn't use my ND gradient on this one because there's no way to filter the reflection of the sky in the water!

So I sacrifice the sky for the benefit of the foreground.

Due to its dynamic range, I don't have to sacrifice either using the H1.

I believe this is mostly, if not entirely, a result of the different curves of the two cameras. Camera manufacturers are finally paying attention to the curves their cameras and in-camera processing produce. And they're getting it better.

I'm sure that if there is another F-series camera, it will have better built-in curves, as well.

Hope this explains what I mean...

--
AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top