Canon 20D vs. Minolta 7D - what's best for ME?

Anulyra · Aug 30, 2005

I have read the other thread by a similar title. I'm especially hoping to get some input from Vance Zachary, E S Cragg and "Stealthfixr", and anybody else that has used both.

I'm scrimping and saving for a DSLR. I used to use a Maxxim 700si back in the day. I now use the Minolta A200 and I hate it with a passion. I use studio strobes to shoot my 8 month old and the modeling lights are never enough for the A200. It hunts and hunts without end, depending on the focal lenth; it is the bane of my existance! I'm shooting in my living room with a white bed sheet as a backdrop. I place my daughter 6 feet in front of the sheet and then back up 3 more feet and zoom in. I need the extra zoom-room for my little moving target. I'm currently missing way too many shots. My studio strobes are Britek HS-1000s (200w/s). I also own a Minolta IV f light meter, the "cable release" cord and a hotshoe adaptor.

I've recently been shooting a lot of my friend's kids and I think I'd like to try my hand at doing senior pictures - outdoors. Portraiture is my drug; I love people. I'll probably seldom shoot a sport or a landscape. I DO prefer to use existing light whenever possible so I need a camera that can do low-light portraits and not lose highlight or shadow detail.

I LOVED my 700si, and that is why I selected the A200 over the Canon Rebel (that and the awesome swivel screen). Now that I feel burned by the decision, I'm afraid to go for the 7D. I have no budget, so I won't be running out for all glass lenses on a whim. I have two 12-year-old Sigma AF lenses and they worked on my friend's 7D. They seemed a little sluggish, but maybe I'm just expecting too much?

If I got the 20D, I'd be starting all over. I'd probably get the cheap lenses for now. In fact, I might have to live with a kit lens for quite a few month. If I did go with a Canon, I wouldn't sell my 700si setup. I love it too much.

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Vance Zachary · Aug 30, 2005

The 20D is a tad faster overall. I find that I have to struggle a bit more with the 7D using exposure compensation because the metering is not as consistent as 20D. If I were going to buy only one camera today for flash (studio) portraiture, it would be 20D.

Having said that, 20D has its own warts. I have had lock up problems. I had none with 7D. The flash triggering mechanism failed on my 2D necessitating that I return it to Canon for repair. I did have to send my 7D back for autofocus problems and flash calibration.

AntiShake is nice to have if you shoot much available light photography. Right now, the Minolta 24-105 and Minolta 70-200/4 are less expensive than its Canon counterparts. The Canon lenses I seem to want are more expensive than their Minolta counterparts but do very well optically.

Replacement models for both cameras will probably be released next year but I wouldn't necessarily wait for them as either 20D or 7D model is better for the kind of work you do than the A200 you now use.

If you wish to stick with Minolta, I think you could get by fine with the 7D quite well. I like mine and sometimes use it instead of my 20D. But right now, I think that the 20D has a slight edge for the flash photography children type of portraiture that it seems like you intend to do.

Do you need any more specifics?

Good luck!
--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Vance Zachary · Aug 30, 2005

After reviewing your portfolio and reading about your issues with flash, I was inclined to believe that you preferred studio children's photography.

I still feel that 20D has an edge. 20D has a better 1600 iso than 7D--at least slightly.

But I could use either camera and do quite well with portraits to be quite honest with you.

Flip a coin, really.
--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Vance Zachary · Aug 30, 2005

Although I tend to favor the 20D slightly, my photography assistant who has occasion to use both cameras, prefers the 7D. She prefers the 7D ergonomics and the large bright LCD. Given a choice, she prefers 7D. She does very well with it. She also like the Anti Shake feature.

If you can, take both cameras for a "test drive."
--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Malcolm Turner · Aug 30, 2005

Jen,
I followed the link to your photos.
They're wonderful!
I think you could get great pics with a box brownie.
I'm an A2 user - probably any DSLR will beat a compact for
absolute quality in your conditions - maybe see which one feels right?
Malcolm

Anulyra · Aug 30, 2005

I actually got to play with a friend's 20D last weekend, and a 7D yesterday with my lenses. The 7D feels familar because I own 4 other Minoltas. The 20D seemed to focus faster - but that was canon lenses on a canon vs. 12-year-old Sigma lenses on the Minolta.

It seems that with both cameras, the LCD isn't very representative of the actual exposure. I always use manual mode no matter what I'm shooting. I will be doing mostly pictures of my daughter, and of other peoples kids, whether with strobes or existing light (indoors and out).

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Anulyra · Aug 30, 2005

You're not very picky are you? LOL!

I aspire to take pictures like the ones on http://www.onlocationportraiture.com

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

José B · Aug 30, 2005

Hi Anulyra,

First of all, I love your photos especially portraits of the children.

Like yourself I love to shoot portraiture: fashion, headshots, glamour, sport and casual. I bought the 7D in November and have about 28,600 in shutter actuations.

http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56/fashion_and_glamour

I recently bought a 20D primarily for shooting sports and action. Since I got a Canon telezoom lens I decided to use it last Sunday for a fashion shoot. Pics are here:

http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56/tonya

It's tough to choose between these two systems. For any type of action or movement, the 20D is my choice----it's AF system is lighting fast and accurate to boot. I find that it tracks the subject way better compared to the 7D.

For natural/low light photography, I will give a very slight edge to the 7D because of AS. Mind you at ISO 800 and above, the 20D nips the 7D as the images look cleaner.

In terms of handling the 7D wins big. I find the knobs and dials very easy to use over menus and buttons of the 20D.

Images straight from the camera: Reala/Provia 100F-like skin tone and colour rendition for the 20D while the 7D has more 'pop'.

Last thing, for a vertical shooter like you------you'll love the auto-rotate image function of the 20D both in viewfinder and your PC. I have to rotate my images manually with the 7D----lots of work since I shoot about 85% in portrait orientation.

Give both cameras a try-----they're excellent!!!

Cheers,

José

Anulyra said:
I have read the other thread by a similar title. I'm especially
hoping to get some input from Vance Zachary, E S Cragg and
"Stealthfixr", and anybody else that has used both.

I'm scrimping and saving for a DSLR. I used to use a Maxxim 700si
back in the day. I now use the Minolta A200 and I hate it with a
passion. I use studio strobes to shoot my 8 month old and the
modeling lights are never enough for the A200. It hunts and hunts
without end, depending on the focal lenth; it is the bane of my
existance! I'm shooting in my living room with a white bed sheet as
a backdrop. I place my daughter 6 feet in front of the sheet and
then back up 3 more feet and zoom in. I need the extra zoom-room
for my little moving target. I'm currently missing way too many
shots. My studio strobes are Britek HS-1000s (200w/s). I also own a
Minolta IV f light meter, the "cable release" cord and a hotshoe
adaptor.

I've recently been shooting a lot of my friend's kids and I think
I'd like to try my hand at doing senior pictures - outdoors.
Portraiture is my drug; I love people. I'll probably seldom shoot a
sport or a landscape. I DO prefer to use existing light whenever
possible so I need a camera that can do low-light portraits and not
lose highlight or shadow detail.

I LOVED my 700si, and that is why I selected the A200 over the
Canon Rebel (that and the awesome swivel screen). Now that I feel
burned by the decision, I'm afraid to go for the 7D. I have no
budget, so I won't be running out for all glass lenses on a whim. I
have two 12-year-old Sigma AF lenses and they worked on my friend's
7D. They seemed a little sluggish, but maybe I'm just expecting too
much?

If I got the 20D, I'd be starting all over. I'd probably get the
cheap lenses for now. In fact, I might have to live with a kit lens
for quite a few month. If I did go with a Canon, I wouldn't sell my
700si setup. I love it too much.

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

--
http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56/canon_20d
http://www.pbase.com/jmb_56/maxxum_7d

Anulyra · Aug 30, 2005

YOU like MY photos? I looked at your stuff, and wow! they are awesome. When I look at work like yours; I just feel shame for mine. I have such a hard time nailing the exposure. I'd rather learn the technical stuff and do it right when I press the button than to photoshop it afterwards like most of my friends. Maybe you could give me a few pointers?

Did you see the set called Alison? That's my sister. It was supposed to be her senior pictures but my mom hated them. I took 76 pix, and I only liked ONE. (the last one in the set) Do you have trouble with sunny days? I want to do stuff like http://www.onlocationportraiture.com (the outdoor stuff).

I don't plan to shoot sports, but my Natalie will be crawling ANY day now.
Thanks

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Vance Zachary · Aug 30, 2005

It is probably a big mistake to try to judge exposure by looking at the lightness or darkness of an image on the LCD screen during instantaneous playback. The LCD is not made to be used that way. How the LCD looks is dependent on the light it is viewed in and not necessarily the exposure.

The best way to determine exposure is to view the histogram after making the image and to also watch for your blinking highlights.

The histogram lets you see the distribution of pixels during the taking of the image. You can easily see whether you are losing pixels to under and overexposure.
--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

RudivanS · Aug 31, 2005

For the superiour view finder and generally more femine feel,
I would suggest the Minolta 7D.
With good/best lenses - being the way to go.

While in Tokyo, I checked out both.
Cheers, Rudi

p-phpto · Aug 31, 2005

Their jpegs are faboulous for skintone!
I shoot 99% people & IMHO Oly & Fuji are the best for people.

Vance Zachary · Aug 31, 2005

The major drawbacks are:

1) relatively poor high iso performance

2) narrow line of lenses and accessories available; specialty lenses are very expensive and 1.4 and 1.2 aperture lenses are few and far in between

3) no upgrade path from the E1 so far; Olympus seems content to concentrate on the E-volt market

4) uncertain future for the 4/3rds format

otherwise, there is hardly a better overall digital system out there.

--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Anulyra · Aug 31, 2005

Besides skin tones, what else do they have going for them? They they have lenses with image stablization? I'd have to buy lenses if I get anything besides the 7D.

Thanks
Jen
--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Vance Zachary · Aug 31, 2005

Olympus has an excellent metering system perhaps better than 20D or 7D, good accurate autofocus, weather proofing, compact size, great jpg straight out of the camera requiring little if any postprocessing. Best of all--it has a self-cleaning sensor.

The Canon 20D and K-M 7D represent hybrid systems--the lenses and accessories designed for film and the digital bodies have to compensate for this. The Olympus was designed for digital from the ground up. The flash, camera bodies, and lenses all designed for digital only.

Some wedding photographers use the E1 and only one lens to cover an entire event. The entire system with body and lens costs less than $1500.

The system is now about 2 years old and some owners are hoping for an updated E1 model one of these days.

--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Anulyra · Aug 31, 2005

You're supposed to be making this decision easier, not harder! Hahahaa

What about image stabilization/anti-shake??

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Vance Zachary · Aug 31, 2005

Sorry, LOL. Just the facts, naa'm. Just the facts.

The only DSLR system that I am familiar with that has Anti-Shake is the Konica Minolta 5D/7D. If Anti-Shake is what you are looking for, 7D is definitely the way to go.

--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Anulyra · Aug 31, 2005

Right, but canon offers IS in their lenses right? Does anybody else?

--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Vance Zachary · Aug 31, 2005

but most of the lenses are f4 and f4.5 maximum aperture, There is less control over depth of field. Canon does make a 70-200/2.8L IS but it costs upward $1600.

AS is build into the body and can be applied to most lenses.

--
Vance Zachary
http://www.pbase.com/photoworkszach
http://www.photoworksbyzachary.com

Anulyra · Aug 31, 2005

I was talking about Olympus.

I know about Canon. I think I'm really leaning towards the 7D. I'm just nervous. This is a big purchase for me and I don't want to be disappionted again like I was for the A200 (and the coolpix 990 5 years ago).

THANKS

Jen
--
32, Married, Mom, Portrait Junkie
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48498501@N00/

Canon 20D vs. Minolta 7D - what's best for ME?

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