Well, I took your advice and ...

latner said:

Be civil - anyone being abusive, calling names or generally trying
to stir up trouble will not be tolerated.

Flame / Attacks - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal
attacks

Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users

Harassment - If we receive complaints about users harassing other
users either by forum message, email or by other methods you will
be banned immediately.

Just something to think about.

centralcoastmagazine said:

Why do you think there is a bump rule. There are very few rules. Most
have to do with respect for other posters. Could the bump rule have
that same consideration?

Just wondering? Another rule is "off topic" posts. Another deals with
adding content that would be of value to others and not a "Hey bro,
thanks" reply. Either this is a place where users can get straight
forward
answers about their camera or it is a chat line for Dave, take your
pick?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
http://dortizphoto.com

Always take those into consideration. Do you think bumping
is considerate to others? I'm sort of taking a Poll here? Of course,
taking into consideration to all the rule you mentioned......

latner said:

Some other rules worth considering:

Be civil - anyone being abusive, calling names or generally trying
to stir up trouble will not be tolerated.

Click to expand...

Is bumping a form of sturring up trouble? Maybe crowing in front of
the line time after time? Is that trouble? Why would it be a rule otherwise?

The others below don't really apply.... I'm just asking question and if
bumping is ok and what it does to other posters. Trying to get a
direct answer to the question, "why does the bumping rule exist?"

Can you answer directly? Why? Your answer would be valuable
and might add content to this thread. No one has directed an answer
to that direct question yet?

latner said:

Flame / Attacks - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal
attacks

Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users

Harassment - If we receive complaints about users harassing other
users either by forum message, email or by other methods you will
be banned immediately.

Just something to think about.

centralcoastmagazine said:

Why do you think there is a bump rule. There are very few rules. Most
have to do with respect for other posters. Could the bump rule have
that same consideration?

Just wondering? Another rule is "off topic" posts. Another deals with
adding content that would be of value to others and not a "Hey bro,
thanks" reply. Either this is a place where users can get straight
forward
answers about their camera or it is a chat line for Dave, take your
pick?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Find the answer to your photography question here:
http://www.researchetc.com/scanners/2/index.htm

Dave, just once, answer,.....

What is bumping and why does it hurt others?

Still trying... so , why the bumping rule?

Would love to hear your opinions..... single in
on this one answer.....

Why do you think that one rule is here?

centralcoastmagazine said:

Why do you think that one rule is here?

Click to expand...

So that the owner of this forum can determine who is abusing his rule and who is not, and take the actions that he deems appropriate.

OK, I answered your question directly, now answer this:

Why do you think you should be the one to police this instead of the aforementioned owner? Have you been deputized by Phil to police these forums?

We all the answer to that is a big "NO"

and don't even bother answering "Gee, I wasn't policing or harassing anyone", we all know the answer to that one also.

latner said:

centralcoastmagazine said:

Why do you think that one rule is here?

Click to expand...

So that the owner of this forum can determine who is abusing his
rule and who is not, and take the actions that he deems appropriate.

Click to expand...

Could it be that bumping hurt others? How, but putting your post at the
top, you fade others into the bottom. The real point is "content" The
bump rule has to do with adding additional content to the thread, not
just an answer, but adding to learning. These two things combine help
others and do not detract from the thread and save space on the server.
Of course, your reply is welcome, but there is more to the bumping rule.
It is good to review it once in awhile if someone is really not adding content
and simply replying with "Thanks bro" type answers.

latner said:

OK, I answered your question directly, now answer this:

Why do you think you should be the one to police this instead of
the aforementioned owner? Have you been deputized by Phil to
police these forums?

Click to expand...

If you do review, I'm only asking the question, not policing. I could care less,
but do want others to get a chance to post and get their turn. That is hindered
when people do bump. Hope you have the same concerns?

It is interesting to see where people stand on some of the rules. I do think it
adds to the conversation and gets the forum back on track.

Trying to dig yourself out of a giant hole now?

Good luck with that LOL

centralcoastmagazine said:

If you do review, I'm only asking the question, not policing. I
could care less,
but do want others to get a chance to post and get their turn. That
is hindered
when people do bump. Hope you have the same concerns?

It is interesting to see where people stand on some of the rules. I
do think it
adds to the conversation and gets the forum back on track.

Click to expand...

Hi Guys!!!

Just fooling around with my 20D and discovered its ability to shoot B&W right out of the camera.

Are there any real advantages to doing this (other than a much smaller file size)? I ask because I read somewhere that saving in color then converting to B&W (post processing level) has more range, and would yield better results.

Here's a quick image of my daughter using my 50mm prime @ f/1.4 (VERY shallow DOF) and ISO800.



Regards,
Dave
--
http://dortizphoto.com

If you shoot RAW, in RAW+JPG mode, you'll get a B&W JPG from the camera and a RAW file with full color. You can then play with the two and see what you like best. I don't think I'd ever shoot JUST B&W JPG - it's a lot easier to convert a color image to B&W than to go the other way.
--
Jeff Peterman

Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
http://www.pbase.com/jeffp25

You might find out how they do it by using the Find feature.
--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o.

I keep trying to find an artist's eye in the B & H catalog

Dave,

That's nice and please keep posting and asking questions as we all pickup tips along the way.
Keep up the good job and enjoy the 20D.
Ken

DOrtiz said:

Are there any real advantages to doing this (other than a much
smaller file size)? I ask because I read somewhere that saving in
color then converting to B&W (post processing level) has more
range, and would yield better results.

Click to expand...

More range? You mean distance from the subject?

It saves time if you only want B&W anyway. Saves all that troublesome
post processing time that we all hate.

Do you mean Dynamic range? That is built into the camera. Do you refer
to tonal range? The question has lots of range.... but narrow it down a
bit if you can.

DOrtiz said:

Here's a quick image of my daughter using my 50mm prime @ f/1.4
(VERY shallow DOF) and ISO800.

Click to expand...

Well, sure, she is a hottie.... I'll save this one for sure.....

Ken...

Ken Schmidt said:

Dave,
That's nice and please keep posting and asking questions as we all
pickup tips along the way.

Click to expand...

I like to think of it that way, although "some" may not agree.

Doesn't matter how stupid (or repetaive) a question may seem (and I post plenty of those) -- there's always an answer that teaches one something s/he didn't know.

Ken Schmidt said:

Keep up the good job and enjoy the 20D.

Click to expand...

Thanks again Ken ... the 20D is a learning experience and Lord knows I have folds all over that little manual. Oh yeah .. why DID they make the manual for the 20D so darn small -- it's like a quick pocket reference guide. Regardless, I have folded pages everywhere on that poor little thing.

I just ran into this feature while reading so I grabbed the camera and tried it. Although I highly doubt I will use it much, but it's interesting to know that feature is available. Maybe folks who shoot weddings? I'll never be one of those guys.

Regards,
Dave
--
http://dortizphoto.com

DOrtiz said:

I just ran into this feature while reading so I grabbed the camera
and tried it. Although I highly doubt I will use it much, but it's
interesting to know that feature is available. Maybe folks who
shoot weddings? I'll never be one of those guys.

Click to expand...

Wedding folks would use color for the original and convert to B&W
later. Why not get both version. There would be no reason for
doing otherwise as it would effect sales.

Juli Valley said:

You shouldn't be replying to every message.

Click to expand...

I do try not to do that - now, and NORMALLY when I have gotten "chatty", it's not been on a thread I started.

The only dog I had in this fight is I'm glad his wife relented .

It seems one good style, unless a poster asks something specific of you in which case it would be rude not to respond, and sometimes takes a couple more questions/responses to get things straight, to just acknowledge all the posts by a "thanks all" type of post.

Sometimes something interesting and unrelated, or peripheral to the main event comes up, and there is a discussion within a discussion which shouldn't be carried on interminably.

I know sometimes when you do that, it does bump your thread, and then sometimes more people jump in. I had a thread pulled, don't know why, so am going to try to not talk too much . . .or go too off-topic.

I don't like to plow through all the posts because there are too many.

It is all about forum and camera talk. We want to answer
all posts on this thread, because that is polite to do so.

Hope this helps.

ShudderBug said:

I don't like to plow through all the posts because there are too many.

Click to expand...

--
Find the answer to your photography question here:
http://www.researchetc.com/scanners/2/index.htm

I agree about the politeness, and guess I'll just wing it.

Sometimes there are a long list of short, generic responses, often with nt's, usually complimentary, but shouldn't require a reply to each and every one.

I agree about the discussion aspect, and hate to see people afraid to post for fear of getting spanked. If you post for any length of time, somebody is going to get on you, sometimes probably deserved, sometimes not.

Check out some of his old threads. I've been mostly a lurker for quite a while now and I seem to remember him being a real gentleman when it comes to courteous replies. Oh yeah, he would get riled sometimes when someone took shots at him but if you gave him a constructive comment he would almost always reply with warm thanks.

I'm on your side on this one, Dave. Others can say what they like but in my never-to-be-humble opinion a courteous reply thanking someone for their advice or comment is not bumping.

Glad you got your camera. Your shots at the football practice look darn good. I am really looking forward to your shots of the real thing.

Best regards,

• Doug

--
Photog wanna-be in Ottawa, Canada

I'll be 'polite' and answer too. ;^)

Maybe if we all get 'polite' and answer, we can fill up this thread before the evening ends, and then hopefully move on to some photography talk. I have to admit, this more resembles a chat room than a photography thread.

I agree with those who have expressed their thoughts that we should not respond unless there is some new material being added. Yes, there is a 'bump' rule, but you would never know it from reading most of the threads on this site lately. I find that I'm here less and less because there is a so much useless dribble here compared to the actual amount of useful information. The problem is that it has become a daunting task to find anything interesting or educational enough to read these days. If it's not the (mostly useless) 5d speculation theads that contained questions about features that had not even been confirmed yet, it is useless chat that serves no real constructive purpose for anyone else.

I thought when Juli pointed this out, perhaps the mood would change. But apparently it did not.

Unless I have this mixed up with another site, I believe we are also supposed to limit photos posted in messages to 2 or 3, and we are not supposed to repost the same photos again. If I am mistaken, someone can correct me on this.

When I first started reading this site about 3 years ago, I probably read for 6 months before the first time I posted anything, and when I did post, I felt concerned that I didn't want to ask a question that I should easily be able to find the answer to myself. (I felt this way because most of what was posted seemed to always be useful, technical information). Now, it appears that most people couldn't care less about that.

I can understand some basic questions when people are out of town or the like, and need quick answer to something because they do not have their manual with them. Or perhaps when someone has read something in the manual several times and still cannot figure it out. This is not what I am talking about. And in these situations, many (including myself) are always quick to try to help a fellow photographer. That is one of the many benefits that comes from Phil generously opening up this site to all of us.

But I think this place would be a whole lot more enjoyable if we didn't have to endure what I call "high-5 posts" that people make all the time. I can picture people jumping up and giving each other high-5's like a show-off football player, when I read some of these posts.

We have all been guilty of breaking the rules from time to time. I'm not trying to act like I'm a saint myself, because that simply is not true. But let's get real, folks. When people post 50 times a day, there cannot possibly be useful information in all of those posts.

I have stayed silent up till now because I didn't want to risk offending anyone. And I hope I have not done that now. But I do think this has gone too far.

I know that one paticular poster has been quite sarcastic, but I think it was done to make a point. It certainly helped to point out just how many times this converstion was bumped for the wrong reasons. I'm really not trying to start any trouble here, and I normally just ignore threads that get this far off topic. But I think if we all try to be a little more thoughtful when we post, we will ALL enjoy this site more.

Thanks for reading....

Best regards,
Tim

--
Pbase homepage at http://www.pbase.com/tim32225/root