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Rodger Carter

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There have been a number of posts on this forum lately concerning the use of the term “Zeiss lens” by Sony for its digicams. Some have said that they are designed by Sony using the Zeiss name only for selling purposes, or that they are actually made in China, etc. I asked the question of Zeiss a while back and their reply is below. According to Zeiss:

1. Sony Zeiss lenses are made in Japan, not China.
2. Zeiss designs the lenses, not Sony

3. One hundred percent of those lenses are tested to ensure they meet Zeiss specifications.
4. Testing is done by on-site Zeiss personnel.

Rodger

Dear Mr. Carter,

Thank you very much for your e-mail. Please let me answer as follows:

There are several Sony digital cameras and digital camcorders that are

equipped with a Carl Zeiss lens. The latest digital camera with Zeiss lens is the Sony DSC-S70, the latest camcorders are the DCR-PC100 and the DCR-TRV20. These products are on a very high quality level - electronically and optical. To reach that extremely high quality level both - electronical parts and optical parts - have to be produced close together. That means, a production at Carl Zeiss Oberkochen (Germany) is not possible. Therefore, production of the lenses for Sony products can only be performed in Asia. Furthermore, the supplier structure (high precision plastic components, precision optics) is ideal in Asia and the local presence, of course, is very important. This facts may help to understand, why the production of the Carl Zeiss lenses for Sony is placed in Japan. The organization is similar to that lenses that are produced for Contax

cameras. BUT: It is our goal to fully meet the requirements of our customers at all times!

THEREFORE: All lens designs are from our mathematical specialists in Oberkochen (Germany)! We subject every lens to a 100% performance test by our specialist who work in Japan and by using our quality requirements! Only the lenses that pass our high quality requirements can be used in the Sony products. Every lens get its own serial number!

I hope, that these facts can help to answer your questions. If you need further information, please do not hesitate to contact me again.

With very best regards

Yvonne Maier

Carl Zeiss
GB Photoobjektive
Tel: +497364/20-6175
Fax:+497364/20-4045
[email protected]
 
"The latest lens is the S70" ? What happened to the S75, S85 and F707?
Rodger Carter said:
1. Sony Zeiss lenses are made in Japan, not China.
Click to expand...
What lenses are made in China?
Rodger Carter said:
2. Zeiss designs the lenses, not Sony
Click to expand...
Understood, but nobody has yet explained the similarity between the "Zeiss lens" and the Canon lens used on many other 3 mp digital cameras.
Rodger Carter said:
3. One hundred percent of those lenses are tested to ensure they
meet Zeiss specifications.
4. Testing is done by on-site Zeiss personnel.
Click to expand...
Sounds good...
Rodger Carter said:
Rodger

Dear Mr. Carter,

Thank you very much for your e-mail. Please let me answer as follows:

There are several Sony digital cameras and digital camcorders that are
equipped with a Carl Zeiss lens. The latest digital camera with
Zeiss lens is the Sony DSC-S70, the latest camcorders are the
DCR-PC100 and the DCR-TRV20. These products are on a very high
quality level - electronically and optical. To reach that
extremely high quality level both - electronical parts and optical
parts - have to be produced close together. That means, a
production at Carl Zeiss Oberkochen (Germany) is not possible.
Therefore, production of the lenses for Sony products can only be
performed in Asia. Furthermore, the supplier structure (high
precision plastic components, precision optics) is ideal in Asia
and the local presence, of course, is very important. This facts
may help to understand, why the production of the Carl Zeiss lenses
for Sony is placed in Japan. The organization is similar to that
lenses that are produced for Contax
cameras. BUT: It is our goal to fully meet the requirements of our
customers at all times!
THEREFORE: All lens designs are from our mathematical specialists
in Oberkochen (Germany)! We subject every lens to a 100%
performance test by our specialist who work in Japan and by using
our quality requirements! Only the lenses that pass our high
quality requirements can be used in the Sony products. Every lens
get its own serial number!

I hope, that these facts can help to answer your questions. If you
need further information, please do not hesitate to contact me
again.

With very best regards

Yvonne Maier

Carl Zeiss
GB Photoobjektive
Tel: +497364/20-6175
Fax:+497364/20-4045
[email protected]
Click to expand...
 
Hi Rodger,

One thing that I can tell you is that Hasselblad use predominantly Zeiss optics and they are very, very good.

Many moons ago I was shooting an army function and I had to take a shot of a group of 120 people. It was 8.30pm and I had to shoot with the wideangle of my RB67 fully open. When it was printed to 16" x 12" from the middle of the shot the quality dropped dramatically from about six inches out to the edges so that you could not discern the features in the faces at all.

I swapped all of my gear for Hasselblad the following day....

Regards,

Richard
Rodger Carter said:
There have been a number of posts on this forum lately concerning
the use of the term “Zeiss lens” by Sony for its
digicams. Some have said that they are designed by Sony using the
Zeiss name only for selling purposes, or that they are actually
made in China, etc. I asked the question of Zeiss a while back and
their reply is below. According to Zeiss:

1. Sony Zeiss lenses are made in Japan, not China.
2. Zeiss designs the lenses, not Sony
3. One hundred percent of those lenses are tested to ensure they
meet Zeiss specifications.
4. Testing is done by on-site Zeiss personnel.

Rodger

Dear Mr. Carter,

Thank you very much for your e-mail. Please let me answer as follows:

There are several Sony digital cameras and digital camcorders that are
equipped with a Carl Zeiss lens. The latest digital camera with
Zeiss lens is the Sony DSC-S70, the latest camcorders are the
DCR-PC100 and the DCR-TRV20. These products are on a very high
quality level - electronically and optical. To reach that
extremely high quality level both - electronical parts and optical
parts - have to be produced close together. That means, a
production at Carl Zeiss Oberkochen (Germany) is not possible.
Therefore, production of the lenses for Sony products can only be
performed in Asia. Furthermore, the supplier structure (high
precision plastic components, precision optics) is ideal in Asia
and the local presence, of course, is very important. This facts
may help to understand, why the production of the Carl Zeiss lenses
for Sony is placed in Japan. The organization is similar to that
lenses that are produced for Contax
cameras. BUT: It is our goal to fully meet the requirements of our
customers at all times!
THEREFORE: All lens designs are from our mathematical specialists
in Oberkochen (Germany)! We subject every lens to a 100%
performance test by our specialist who work in Japan and by using
our quality requirements! Only the lenses that pass our high
quality requirements can be used in the Sony products. Every lens
get its own serial number!

I hope, that these facts can help to answer your questions. If you
need further information, please do not hesitate to contact me
again.

With very best regards

Yvonne Maier

Carl Zeiss
GB Photoobjektive
Tel: +497364/20-6175
Fax:+497364/20-4045
[email protected]
Click to expand...
 
Richard,

A number of folks have stated that they think Zeiss lens are the very best, however, the question comes up quite frequently as to whether the lenses used by Sony are “real” Zeiss lenses since they are not made in Germany. Zeiss seems to think so, but some folks feel otherwise. Zeiss lenses made in Germany for film cameras are larger and also involve much higher labor costs, so prices are often quite high. Because of this, we often see posts to the effect that the Sony Zeiss lenses cannot possibly be the real thing, it is just an advertising gimmick. I am as far as you can get from being a lens expert so have no knowledge of the matter other than what Zeiss itself says. I expect that twenty years from now similar questioning posts will still be appearing on this and other sites.

My e-mail to Zeiss was more than a year ago, but I have seen other posts since then reporting similar answers from Zeiss, so I suppose the info in the letter still holds true.

Rodger
 
Rodger Carter said:
Richard,

A number of folks have stated that they think Zeiss lens are the
very best, however, the question comes up quite frequently as to
whether the lenses used by Sony are “real” Zeiss lenses
since they are not made in Germany. Zeiss seems to think so, but
some folks feel otherwise. Zeiss lenses made in Germany for film
cameras are larger and also involve much higher labor costs, so
prices are often quite high. Because of this, we often see posts
to the effect that the Sony Zeiss lenses cannot possibly be the
real thing, it is just an advertising gimmick. I am as far as you
can get from being a lens expert so have no knowledge of the matter
other than what Zeiss itself says. I expect that twenty years from
now similar questioning posts will still be appearing on this and
other sites.

My e-mail to Zeiss was more than a year ago, but I have seen other
posts since then reporting similar answers from Zeiss, so I suppose
the info in the letter still holds true.

Rodger
Click to expand...
The most esteemed lens designers (Zeiss, Leitz, Rodenstock, etc) produce
many designs. Some require manufacturing tolerances and optical
components that greatly increase production costs. Occasionally some of
those are manufactured -- and usually command high prices and great respect.
Often, the lenses chosen for production can be made with relaxed tolerances

(on an optical scale) and still perform very well. We see a lot of those over the
years. There have been some mediocre Zeiss lenses in years past, you know.
All these lenses passed the manufacturers quality control "program".

The bottom line is that Zeiss has a great reputation, as do other lens-makers
in Germany, Japan and the U.S., but the Zeiss label does not say that the

lens for a digicam is going to be of the quality of a lens for the Contax, for example.
An alliance between Sony and Zeiss which allows Sony to use the Zeiss name
probably means a very good lens for mass-production. I personally believe
that, for this market, Nikon, Canon, Kodak, Olympus, Pentax, etc. are making
some lenses in the same league.

Unlike with my 35mm gear, I almost ignore the lens claims for digicams -- it's
too hard (and more important to me) to find a camera that is photographer-
friendly. And the lens alone doesn't make the camera.

Darrell
 
Darrell Spreen said:
.................. but the Zeiss label does not say that the
lens for a digicam is going to be of the quality of a lens for the
Contax, for example.
Click to expand...
True, true. Just as Honda is known for the Electric Rat* as well as for respected Formula One engines.

Mike :-)
  • The original Honda Civic, as known to certain older members of the Aussie rally community. 'Bout time we exported the term...
 
Since the F707 is the only thing I have seen in a long time that even beings to peak my interest and, since I have been shooting with nothing but Zeiss lenses for many years on my Contax SLR, Contax G2 and even the little Yashica T4, I would be interested in which Zeiss lenses you feel were "mediocre" and then, I would suppose, the real question would be "Mediocre compared to what?" since even the least sharp Zeiss lens is magnitudes sharper than other manufacturer's 'best'. However, that is not really a topic for a digital camera forum.

Looking specifically at digital camera lenses, I think you can see that the lens certainly has become a major issue since the 2Mp boundary was reached. Even cameras like the Sony F55 or the F505 benefited from the Zeiss lenses that they were equipped with and had resolving power that 3Mp cameras found it hard to match. I have no doubt that the Zeiss lenses shipped with the Sony still and video cameras are of the same quality as my Contax SLR lenses and the images do testify to that.

As I said before, the F707 is the only thing that has attracted my attention in recent months and part of that is the combination of a Zeiss lens with a 5Mp resolution. The reviews certainly confirm that the lens is an essential part of any camera and that includes digital!
There have been some mediocre Zeiss lenses in years past,
Member said:
you know.
All these lenses passed the manufacturers quality control "program".

Darrell
Click to expand...
 
Robert MacLellan wrote:
I would be interested in
Robert MacLellan said:
which Zeiss lenses you feel were "mediocre" and then, I would
suppose, the real question would be "Mediocre compared to what?"
since even the least sharp Zeiss lens is magnitudes sharper than
other manufacturer's 'best'.
Click to expand...
Zeiss Biotar, Biometar, Flektagon, Flexon, Novar, Pantar, Triotar
were all mediocre compared to those made by the other
major lensmakers for the same applications.

. I have
Robert MacLellan said:
no doubt that the Zeiss lenses shipped with the Sony still and
video cameras are of the same quality as my Contax SLR lenses and
the images do testify to that.
Click to expand...
Any zoom lens that motors in and out is not of the quality of your Contax
SLR lenses.

This is a silly discussion.

Darrell
 
I agree. This whole discussion of what is or is not a Zeiss lens is silly. The lens the Sony 707 has is the lens it has and it performs to the level it performs. It does not matter whether it is a "true" Zeiss or not.

Frank B
Darrell Spreen said:
Member said:
which Zeiss lenses you feel were "mediocre" and then, I would
suppose, the real question would be "Mediocre compared to what?"
since even the least sharp Zeiss lens is magnitudes sharper than
other manufacturer's 'best'.
Click to expand...
Zeiss Biotar, Biometar, Flektagon, Flexon, Novar, Pantar, Triotar
were all mediocre compared to those made by the other
major lensmakers for the same applications.

. I have
Member said:
no doubt that the Zeiss lenses shipped with the Sony still and
video cameras are of the same quality as my Contax SLR lenses and
the images do testify to that.
Click to expand...
Any zoom lens that motors in and out is not of the quality of your
Contax
SLR lenses.

This is a silly discussion.

Darrell
Click to expand...
 
Wow!! You only had to go back to the 40's and 50's for some of those. I am sure I saw some of those on an old Kiev in a pawnshop.In any case, I don't see the Vario-Sonnar on you list of Classic Camera lenses and that is the one mounted on the Sony F707. The Vario-Sonnar is hardly a mediocre lens.

As far as your strange reference to the motor on the lens being related in any way to optical quality, I agree with you that it is a silly concept.

In spite of opinions, the facts bear out the superior quality of the Zeiss lens on the Sony cameras and that is not even up for disagreement so attempts to deny it only make the denier appear silly.
Darrell Spreen said:
. I have
Member said:
no doubt that the Zeiss lenses shipped with the Sony still and
video cameras are of the same quality as my Contax SLR lenses and
the images do testify to that.
Click to expand...
Any zoom lens that motors in and out is not of the quality of your
Contax
SLR lenses.

This is a silly discussion.

Darrell
Click to expand...
 
Robert MacLellan wrote:
In any case, I don't see the Vario-Sonnar on you list of
Robert MacLellan said:
Classic Camera lenses and that is the one mounted on the Sony F707.
The Vario-Sonnar is hardly a mediocre lens.
Click to expand...
The Vario-Sonnar is a general name for Zeiss zoom lenses -- there
are many Vario-Sonnars. I said they are very good designs.
Robert MacLellan said:
As far as your strange reference to the motor on the lens being
related in any way to optical quality, I agree with you that it is
a silly concept.
Click to expand...
Motorized zoom lenses have larger tolerances in the zoom mechanism
than do manual helicoid mechanisms -- this affects axial alignment
and optical quality.
Robert MacLellan said:
In spite of opinions, the facts bear out the superior quality of
the Zeiss lens on the Sony cameras and that is not even up for
disagreement so attempts to deny it only make the denier appear
silly.
Click to expand...
In its review of the F505, Digital Camera Magazine said: "Image quality
is on a par with the Nikon Coolpix 950, Olympus C2500, and Kodak
DC290". That's a good review -- take it or leave it.
 
This really IS a stupid discussion. The Sony cameras have Zeiss lenses on them because the name is stamped on the frontal lobe - both on the lens and our brains. Welcome to brand marketing, folks. Lens manufacturers make all kinds of lenses for different uses and, no, they are not the same "quality". But so what?

The lenses on the F series of Sony digital cameras is pretty good. Does it "make" the camera? No. But some people make the purchase because of the name "Zeiss" on the front. I admit, it sounds cool to say you've got a Zeiss lens on the thing. Its just what Sony had in mind when they made their deal with Zeiss. Why do you think they did it?

It wasn't enuf to compensate for all the drawbacks, besides the lens, that I experienced on the F505 we've got.

Mike
Darrell Spreen said:
Member said:
Classic Camera lenses and that is the one mounted on the Sony F707.
The Vario-Sonnar is hardly a mediocre lens.
Click to expand...
The Vario-Sonnar is a general name for Zeiss zoom lenses -- there
are many Vario-Sonnars. I said they are very good designs.
Member said:
As far as your strange reference to the motor on the lens being
related in any way to optical quality, I agree with you that it is
a silly concept.
Click to expand...
Motorized zoom lenses have larger tolerances in the zoom mechanism
than do manual helicoid mechanisms -- this affects axial alignment
and optical quality.
Member said:
In spite of opinions, the facts bear out the superior quality of
the Zeiss lens on the Sony cameras and that is not even up for
disagreement so attempts to deny it only make the denier appear
silly.
Click to expand...
In its review of the F505, Digital Camera Magazine said: "Image
quality
is on a par with the Nikon Coolpix 950, Olympus C2500, and Kodak
DC290". That's a good review -- take it or leave it.
Click to expand...
 
Mike F. said:
This really IS a stupid discussion. The Sony cameras have Zeiss
lenses on them because the name is stamped on the frontal lobe -
both on the lens and our brains. Welcome to brand marketing,
folks. Lens manufacturers make all kinds of lenses for different
uses and, no, they are not the same "quality". But so what?

The lenses on the F series of Sony digital cameras is pretty good.
Does it "make" the camera? No. But some people make the purchase
because of the name "Zeiss" on the front. I admit, it sounds cool
to say you've got a Zeiss lens on the thing. Its just what Sony
had in mind when they made their deal with Zeiss. Why do you think
they did it?

It wasn't enuf to compensate for all the drawbacks, besides the
lens, that I experienced on the F505 we've got.

Mike
Click to expand...
Absolutely!
It's just amazing to me that some people seem so suckered in by that.
It's a sharp lens for sure, but a sharp lens isn't so sharp if it doesn't
focus.

Dave
 
Member said:
In its review of the F505, Digital Camera Magazine said: "Image
quality
is on a par with the Nikon Coolpix 950, Olympus C2500, and Kodak
DC290". That's a good review -- take it or leave it.
Click to expand...
OK, granted, but the F505V, a 2.6 Million pixel model, has a higher recorded resolution than the Nikon CP990, or Olympus 3030 (both 3MP with a similar pixel pitch), despite having a larger zoom ratio.....surely some of this has to do with lens resolving power?
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf505v/page14.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc3030z/page15.asp

-A
 
Here's another 2-cent "opinion":

The air on these forums would be a little fresher, if the participants would stick to the discussion/argument and leave-out the judgemental characterization of others' posts.

It often seems that "stupid" or "silly" really means "...not something I'M (note capitals) interested in/would have said/didn't know/haven't heard before, agree-with etc!"

The "judge" then usually proceeds to offer HIS "contribution" to the topic ANYWAY.

Threads that have been judged stupid, silly, un-interesting, redundant, etc., by one-or-a-few often have a far greater number of seemingly-interested participants simply enjoying the exchange (why bother to post, otherwise?)

I think a little reflection will remind that this is a big world, and literally thousands of people may show up on the internet with a question or comment that TO THEM seems to have substance, and TO THEM may be "new". If these are met by snide dismissals by those who happen to have (or think-they-have) greater knowledge/familiarity-with a given topic, the pleasurable atmosphere of cooperative-exchange is poisoned.

Attempts to demonstrate personal superority are very often counter-productive.

If something dis-interests you, mellow-out! ...jes'"keep-on-clickin"!

Larry
Mike F. said:
The lenses on the F series of Sony digital cameras is pretty good.
Does it "make" the camera? No. But some people make the purchase
because of the name "Zeiss" on the front. I admit, it sounds cool
to say you've got a Zeiss lens on the thing. Its just what Sony
had in mind when they made their deal with Zeiss. Why do you think
they did it?

It wasn't enuf to compensate for all the drawbacks, besides the
lens, that I experienced on the F505 we've got.

Mike
Darrell Spreen said:
Michael F. said:
Classic Camera lenses and that is the one mounted on the Sony F707.
The Vario-Sonnar is hardly a mediocre lens.
Click to expand...
The Vario-Sonnar is a general name for Zeiss zoom lenses -- there
are many Vario-Sonnars. I said they are very good designs.
Michael F. said:
As far as your strange reference to the motor on the lens being
related in any way to optical quality, I agree with you that it is
a silly concept.
Click to expand...
Motorized zoom lenses have larger tolerances in the zoom mechanism
than do manual helicoid mechanisms -- this affects axial alignment
and optical quality.
Michael F. said:
In spite of opinions, the facts bear out the superior quality of
the Zeiss lens on the Sony cameras and that is not even up for
disagreement so attempts to deny it only make the denier appear
silly.
Click to expand...
In its review of the F505, Digital Camera Magazine said: "Image
quality
is on a par with the Nikon Coolpix 950, Olympus C2500, and Kodak
DC290". That's a good review -- take it or leave it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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