DCS 560 Should i buy?

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl, and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a 4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and publication anyone?

Stephen

If I'm not mistaken, Kodak added ETTL capability to the DCS 500 series cameras as the older TTL technologies didn't work with the imager chip. Other than that the 560 is a 6 megapixel digital EOS 1N, including its autofocus and metering system (the only difference being the addition of ETTL capability).

As for image quality, that is something you have to judge for yourself. The digital portion is the same as the Nikon based DCS 660, so any images out of either camera should be good samples for you to look at. Of course, the 560 only works in the low ISO ranges and (if I'm not mistaken) can't go past 200iso (and is pretty noisy at that point as well). Its also a rather slow machine, with a small buffer and low frame rate (although its AF should destroy the D30, not that it matters though). If you can live with those limitations, and can shoot at low ISOs the x60 series Kodak's will provide you with much more resolution than the D30.

If you need more speed, the digital 1V might be a good fit if it comes out anytime soon (there have been rumors about it being just around the corner for a long time now). We don't really know anything solid about it yet, however it will have to provide speed to saciate the PJs lusting for the camera. The rumors say it should be a 6mp 7-9fps machine, which would be great, however they are just rumors so we really don't know.

Hope this helps

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Thomas Sapiano said:

If I'm not mistaken, Kodak added ETTL capability to the DCS 500
series cameras as the older TTL technologies didn't work with the
imager chip. Other than that the 560 is a 6 megapixel digital EOS
1N, including its autofocus and metering system (the only
difference being the addition of ETTL capability).

As for image quality, that is something you have to judge for
yourself. The digital portion is the same as the Nikon based DCS
660, so any images out of either camera should be good samples for
you to look at. Of course, the 560 only works in the low ISO
ranges and (if I'm not mistaken) can't go past 200iso (and is
pretty noisy at that point as well). Its also a rather slow
machine, with a small buffer and low frame rate (although its AF
should destroy the D30, not that it matters though). If you can
live with those limitations, and can shoot at low ISOs the x60
series Kodak's will provide you with much more resolution than the
D30.

Click to expand...

There's alot of control with the 560 software. Kodak aquire software is top notch and speeds up aquisition of images with minor correction (exposure) I shot in the camera room with strobes at 200 asa quite a bit without any noise problem, but of course I rarely print anything over 16x20 from these files. I think your price is great and you should hop on it. Check ebay prices... 460s bring 1800-2000. and they are really not in the same league as 560. Kodak online support is really good too. But hey different tools for different jobs. Don't think you can go shoot a wedding with it as easily as with S1 or D1. Who has it for that price?

Thomas Sapiano said:

If you need more speed, the digital 1V might be a good fit if it
comes out anytime soon (there have been rumors about it being just
around the corner for a long time now). We don't really know
anything solid about it yet, however it will have to provide speed
to saciate the PJs lusting for the camera. The rumors say it
should be a 6mp 7-9fps machine, which would be great, however they
are just rumors so we really don't know.

Hope this helps

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hey Stephen,

If you decide to pass it up, please let me know where you you were looking at it. At that price, it may almost be worth the extra hurculean strength it will tkae to life during a wedding for 8 hours.

-JM

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Stephen,

It's a dynamite camera and many paid over $20K for it! Is the image quality better? You bet. Not nearly as versatile as your D30, but twice the true resolution. If you have the need for the extra resolution, as you have expressed, for this price how can you go wrong? Remember, you won't be able to do some things with it that you can with the D30, but if you want to print large exceptionally clean images which have lots of fine detail, you will not be dissapointed. My suggestion is to keep the D30 and buy the 560 also. With the two, you will have covered nearly any possible type job except perhaps for action sports.

Lin

Thomas Sapiano said:

If I'm not mistaken, Kodak added ETTL capability to the DCS 500
series cameras as the older TTL technologies didn't work with the
imager chip. Other than that the 560 is a 6 megapixel digital EOS
1N, including its autofocus and metering system (the only
difference being the addition of ETTL capability).

Click to expand...

This is correct. The 560 does have E-TTL capability. The other difference between the 560 and a standard EOS-1n film body is the cable release socket. Another REALLY nice difference is that all of the custom functions of the EOS-1n body are incorporated into the user friendly menus on the LCD (no references needed for CF-10, CF-8, etc.)

Thomas Sapiano said:

As for image quality, that is something you have to judge for
yourself. The digital portion is the same as the Nikon based DCS
660, so any images out of either camera should be good samples for
you to look at. Of course, the 560 only works in the low ISO
ranges and (if I'm not mistaken) can't go past 200iso (and is
pretty noisy at that point as well).

Click to expand...

The DCS-560 ISO range is 80-200. The software allows for + - 2 stop exposure compensation so the effective ISO is 80-800. The noise at ISO 200 isn't objectable for most output purposes. On the rare occasions that it is bothersome, it is easly cleaned up with Quantum Mechanic by Camera Bits.

Thomas Sapiano said:

Its also a rather slow
machine, with a small buffer and low frame rate (although its AF
should destroy the D30, not that it matters though). If you can
live with those limitations, and can shoot at low ISOs the x60
series Kodak's will provide you with much more resolution than the
D30.

Click to expand...

1 shot/sec. for 3 frames. The other consideration is the file size. I just used mine along with my 520 yesterday to shoot a wedding. Those 5.2MB raw files and 18MB RGB TIFFs (after processing) add up pretty quick. The file quality is awesome, but I can't imagine shooting a whole wedding with it (I only use it for the shots that I suspect will be enlarged more than others or shots that have large groups of people). You would need to carry an additional case just for storage cards!

Thomas Sapiano said:

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It won't last long at $3300. In fact, now that you have advertised it here on a VERY public forum, don't expect it to be there tomorrow afternoon!

Tom DeRousie
http://www.modernimaging.com

Hello again, i am asking for advice one more time, the dcs 560 is now at 3200 for a mint demo, I am very, very tempted especially if it has the E-TTL included which is what i am hearing, Like i said i have a D30 and love it, the quality is great but the body is soso as far as i carry a camera everywhere I go and I usally am very good but i have banged one before and I am sure it is only a matter of time before it happens again. I am use to 1ns and 1vhs they are a bit stronger. So my question is, Is the dcs 560 worth it as far as features and quality over a d30? does anyone shoot both and have results from a similar image, or better yet does anyone have the raw files for both or even something off a dcs560 that i can easily duplicate so i can see if its worth it for me or should i just wait (for a seemingly long time now) for a Canon pro digital?
Thanks for your help.

Stephen

Tom DeRousie said:

Thomas Sapiano said:

If I'm not mistaken, Kodak added ETTL capability to the DCS 500
series cameras as the older TTL technologies didn't work with the
imager chip. Other than that the 560 is a 6 megapixel digital EOS
1N, including its autofocus and metering system (the only
difference being the addition of ETTL capability).

Click to expand...

This is correct. The 560 does have E-TTL capability. The other
difference between the 560 and a standard EOS-1n film body is the
cable release socket. Another REALLY nice difference is that all
of the custom functions of the EOS-1n body are incorporated into
the user friendly menus on the LCD (no references needed for CF-10,
CF-8, etc.)

Tom DeRousie said:

As for image quality, that is something you have to judge for
yourself. The digital portion is the same as the Nikon based DCS
660, so any images out of either camera should be good samples for
you to look at. Of course, the 560 only works in the low ISO
ranges and (if I'm not mistaken) can't go past 200iso (and is
pretty noisy at that point as well).

Click to expand...

The DCS-560 ISO range is 80-200. The software allows for + - 2
stop exposure compensation so the effective ISO is 80-800. The
noise at ISO 200 isn't objectable for most output purposes. On the
rare occasions that it is bothersome, it is easly cleaned up with
Quantum Mechanic by Camera Bits.

Tom DeRousie said:

Its also a rather slow
machine, with a small buffer and low frame rate (although its AF
should destroy the D30, not that it matters though). If you can
live with those limitations, and can shoot at low ISOs the x60
series Kodak's will provide you with much more resolution than the
D30.

Click to expand...

1 shot/sec. for 3 frames. The other consideration is the file
size. I just used mine along with my 520 yesterday to shoot a
wedding. Those 5.2MB raw files and 18MB RGB TIFFs (after
processing) add up pretty quick. The file quality is awesome, but
I can't imagine shooting a whole wedding with it (I only use it for
the shots that I suspect will be enlarged more than others or shots
that have large groups of people). You would need to carry an
additional case just for storage cards!

Tom DeRousie said:

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It won't last long at $3300. In fact, now that you have advertised
it here on a VERY public forum, don't expect it to be there
tomorrow afternoon!

Tom DeRousie
http://www.modernimaging.com

Click to expand...

Stephen said:

I am use to 1ns and 1vhs they are
a bit stronger. So my question is, Is the dcs 560 worth it as far
as features and quality over a d30? does anyone shoot both and have
results from a similar image, or better yet does anyone have the
raw files for both or even something off a dcs560 that i can easily
duplicate so i can see if its worth it for me or should i just wait
(for a seemingly long time now) for a Canon pro digital?

Click to expand...

Color-wise, the D30 is better. As for the image quality, the DCS 560 may achieve higher detail in some areas but I have seen 20x30 inch prints (shot in JPEG/Large mode) made from the D30 via Kodak's digital LED printer without any sign of pixelizations.

Overall, many D30 owners are happy with the image quality of 3.11mp but for the photojournalists and sport shooters alike, they would like to see a model that has a more responsive AF, a burst rate that last at least 5 seconds before writing to disk and at least 5 fps ability. Doesn't matter if it is a 4mp, 5mp, 6mp or 7mp (effective pixels, not interpolated) version.

HINT: Christmas is slightly less than 4 months away. However, it may come and go in a blink of an eye and then it's "Welcome 2002".

NOTE: There will not be any reply to the above hint, anyone is free to interpret its meaning.

Philip Chong

Philip Chong said:

Color-wise, the D30 is better.

Click to expand...

Philip, could you describe your testing technique that brought you to this conclusion? Also, what color space did you process your 560 files into? How about the D30?

Philip Chong said:

As for the image quality, the DCS
560 may achieve higher detail in some areas

Click to expand...

"May" is not an accurate assessment! It does!

Tom DeRousie
http://www.modernimaging.com

I currently own a D-30 and like many want canon to introduce a 6-9 mega pixel. However I talked to my local canon rep and he informed me that canon is going to introduce a 4 megapixel camera by year end. I am now looking for a DCS 560. does anyone one have one or know where I might find one. I might have to start shooting nikon after having canons for over 22years.

thanks

This webpage should help in your decision:

http://www.matthewfelton.com/D30vs560/index.htm

Best regards,
David

Tom DeRousie said:

Philip Chong said:

Color-wise, the D30 is better.

Click to expand...

Philip, could you describe your testing technique that brought you
to this conclusion? Also, what color space did you process your
560 files into? How about the D30?

Tom DeRousie said:

As for the image quality, the DCS
560 may achieve higher detail in some areas

Click to expand...

"May" is not an accurate assessment! It does!

Tom DeRousie
http://www.modernimaging.com

Click to expand...

I paid $5,500 for a mint used dcs560, $1200 more would get me a new 760 from calumet photographics, but I have to much canon gear to switch! if it is still available at that price please let me know if you don't want it.

Lin Evans said:

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

I would love to hear from someone who has used both for print and
publication anyone?

Stephen

Click to expand...

Stephen,
It's a dynamite camera and many paid over $20K for it! Is the image
quality better? You bet. Not nearly as versatile as your D30, but
twice the true resolution. If you have the need for the extra
resolution, as you have expressed, for this price how can you go
wrong? Remember, you won't be able to do some things with it that
you can with the D30, but if you want to print large exceptionally
clean images which have lots of fine detail, you will not be
dissapointed. My suggestion is to keep the D30 and buy the 560
also. With the two, you will have covered nearly any possible type
job except perhaps for action sports.

Lin

Click to expand...

Stephen said:

Hello, i have an opportunity to purchase a DCS 560 canon eos 1N
body, it was a store demo and in great shape, everything included
and the store is a reputable one in manhattan, (if that can
coexist) the camera is going for 3300.00 Heres the thing I am
shooting a D30 and have not had a problem yet but I want more
megapixels, should I wait until canon releases one or should I
really consider this, is the quality much better than the D30, are
the images that much better? I used to shoot a 1Vhs and love the
camera, I had a 1N and loved it as well but i may miss the ettl,
and the newer tech gadgets in the 1v and d30, as for detail if i
need bigger then a d30 can produce i still shoot a hasselblad.

So is the dcs 560 that much better then a d30 or should I save
money and wait until canon decides to wake up and put out a 6MP (a
4mp may be great for photojornalists but i would not be happy with
just 4) ?

Click to expand...

Stephen,

If you don't want it, tell me where to get it and I'll buy it myself. I already have a 520 and a 560 along with an S-1 but another 560 at that price is a bargain.. especially if it's in the mint condition that you described.

paul hayashi