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Olympus E-300 or Pentax *ist DS

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Rosco and all the rest, thanks!

Well I personally would much prefer the option to have RAW + JPEG since I don't think that I'll go in each shot and adjust it, but I'd like to have the option to edit a particular photo which I really like how it came out.

To add to the thread I went out today and actually DID find an E-300 in one store so I checked that out, and with this I've actually handled all 4 cameras I was considering - the E-300, DS, Rebel XT and the 50D.

Of those I really liked the viewfinder of the Pentax, with the one on the E-300 a close second - the Rebel XT and Nikon 50D viewfinders were a bit on the small side and too dark I think.

Of the manual focus rings, the ones on the Canon and Nikon, although mechanical, seem so cheap that I don't think that I'll enjoy using them. The one on the Pentax was really nice, and the electronic ring on the Olympus had a very good feel to it - although the camera didn't have a battery in it so I wasn't able to actually manually focus with the Olympus.

All in all I think I like the feel and the build quality of the Olympus best so far. And the dual lens kit seems awfully nice. The only gripes I had were the focus by wire and the smaller than the Pentax DS viewfinder, but now that I've seen the camera I think it's up to it to compete with the Pentax.
 
you guys are cracking me up with this manual lens craziness.

The Olympus system was designed to be digital. Putting OLD ass lenses on it only hurt the image quality. Olympus spent millions of dollars developing telecentricity...whay are you all sooooo inclined to put a 20 year old LEGACY lens on a modern digital camera?
 
Sergey Todorov wrote:

Where did you get this? This is the comparisson that all Pentax folks want to keep hidden!
Sergey Todorov said:
Noise question. Why is the DS noise level considered to be lower
than that on the Olympus E-300, when I'm looking at the images in
the DPReviews the queen (or whoever that is) head image from the DS
appears to be noticeably noisier than that of the E-300 at the same
ISO levels. I made a composite comparison screenshot with quality
set at Maximum. You can see it here:

Click to expand...
 
E1derful said:
you guys are cracking me up with this manual lens craziness.

The Olympus system was designed to be digital. Putting OLD ass
lenses on it only hurt the image quality. Olympus spent millions
of dollars developing telecentricity...whay are you all sooooo
inclined to put a 20 year old LEGACY lens on a modern digital
camera?
Click to expand...
If you have the money to buy all the modern glass you want, good for you. Not everyone has that much money to spend on a hobby.

For a person who doesn't have enough money to buy all the modern lenses they want, the choices are:
A) A bag full of excellent, yet inexpensive, old lenses
B) Cheap, relatively crummy (but new, new, new!) consumer zooms
C) Few or no lenses aside from the kit zoom.

I prefer choice A. If that's "crazy", then I'm having a lot of fun being crazy.

Greg
 
1. Its as good as any similar ones from other Mfr , Olympus included

2. Any of todays current DSLR can deliver that, its what you set it up for that counts

3. Well so far no one been able to replicate the tactile feedback of mechanically linked manual focus and Zoom. Even the late new prosumers like the Fuji & Panasonic go with that. So gather

4. AF points, Unless you really play around alot with focus sensor point ( which can be a bit hard to do with either of them. There is really little difference, but in general the 11 point means you are likely to encomposs the subject while 3 point might left it out

5. At this moment of time, the Pentax score way higher on Lens option than the 4/3 and the only 4.3 lens are either Oly's own or a couple of Sigma consumer offering

Well, depend on where you are, you might want to check out the Nikon D50 and the Konica Minolta 5D

--
Franka
 
Hi Greg,

Yes, I am using the same work around described on wroniak.net
site. I think it explains why I have to go down one f-stop to get
a good picture when using the OM lens. I am using A-priority. At
f1.8, the 50mm lens fools the metring sensor to think there is less
light. Going down -0.3EV seems to compensate for the over-exposure
problem, while allowing me to stay at f1.8. For other OM lenses, it
may be different.

The generic suggestion of going down one f-stop may be the simplest
way to utilize correctly many of the OM lenses on the Olympus
E-systems.

Bao
Greg Lovern said:
Bao Ha said:
Instead of stopping-down on the aperture, you can just set the
exposure to -0.3EV. It seems to work on my 50mm f1.8 OM on an E-300.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to working around the exposure accuracy problem
described at http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/any-lens.html ? If
so, you're simply using the exact workaround described at the same
site.

Good for you if you don't mind it, but I'd find it annoying,
especially if I had more than one such lens and so had to remember
now much exposure compensation, and for which apertures it applied,
for each lens. I'm sure I'd sometimes forget to set it or unset it,
and end up with badly underexposed or badly overexposed shots.

Greg
Click to expand...
 
Sergey Todorov wrote:
Question I feel I can answer adequately;
Sergey Todorov said:
3. How much more different does the lens focus by wire on the E-300
feel, compared to a true mechanical focus ring (which I gather the
Pentax lenses have). I have an old Zenith film SLR, with a prime
50mm lens and I really like the mechanical feel to the focus ring.
Click to expand...
It lags when you focus quickly, pretty annoying.
Sergey Todorov said:
4. Is the difference between 3 and 11 AF points that big a deal?
Click to expand...
Yes, It's not the fact that it has 8 more AF points, but that the E-300 doesn't have vertical AF points. Ouch
Sergey Todorov said:
6. Any other DSLR kits up to ~$700-750 I should consider?
Click to expand...
D50?

I would go for ANY DSLR over the E-300, it's noise is just nasty. It's sad when theres a small P&S that beats it in that critical department (F10)
 
Greg Lovern said:
For a person who doesn't have enough money to buy all the modern
lenses they want, the choices are:
A) A bag full of excellent, yet inexpensive, old lenses
B) Cheap, relatively crummy (but new, new, new!) consumer zooms
C) Few or no lenses aside from the kit zoom.
Click to expand...
if your only option is to use LEGACY lenses, then so be it, but realize that your system is not optimal. Do not criticize the manufacturer for optical quality or convenience when using lenses not designed for the system. I am not accusing...I am simply stating.
 
E1derful said:
if your only option is to use LEGACY lenses, then so be it, but
realize that your system is not optimal.
Click to expand...
If I sold all my lenses except for the kit zoom, would you consider that "optimal"? I would consider it dramatically less desireable than what I have now.

It would take a lot of very expensive lenses, not to mention multiple camera manufacturers systems and multiple formats, to have a truly "optimal" system. I would imagine a system like that would cost upwards of half a million US dollars.

"Optimal" in that sense is frankly not a very useful criterium. A more useful criterium is what equipment can deliver the best images given your budget constraints. If I could put about US$20,000 into lenses, I wouldn't hesitate to replace some old ones with great new ones.

But two of my old lenses can't be replaced with modern equivalents that suit my needs as well. The tiny Pentax-M 135/3.5, and the relatively small Tamron SP 300/5.6. Both would have to be replaced with much larger, heavier (though faster) modern lenses to get the same or better optical quality.

So, a cost-is-no-object system for me would include both old and new lenses.
E1derful said:
Do not criticize the
manufacturer for optical quality or convenience when using lenses
not designed for the system. I am not accusing...I am simply
stating.
Click to expand...
And it is a strange statement. Are you confusing me with someone who has made such criticisms? I've never had any reason to.

Greg
 
'Bout time. We've been waiting for you.
--
shinndigg
 
60mm said:
60mm said:
3. How much more different does the lens focus by wire on the E-300
feel, compared to a true mechanical focus ring (which I gather the
Pentax lenses have). I have an old Zenith film SLR, with a prime
50mm lens and I really like the mechanical feel to the focus ring.
Click to expand...
It lags when you focus quickly, pretty annoying.
Click to expand...
You never tried it, did you ?

There is absolutly no lag.
60mm said:
I would go for ANY DSLR over the E-300, it's noise is just nasty.
It's sad when theres a small P&S that beats it in that critical
department (F10)
Click to expand...
Use the E-300 with RAW and apply extremöy heavy noise reduction like the F10 does and than compeare the results.

But yes, you are right, the E-300 is propably one of the DSLRs with the most noise out there but for me noise is not so "bad" than for most others, so noise is only a minor point for me, I did focus on other aspects when chosing my DSLR.

Btw, I think that the *istDs is a very nice DSLR, too.
 
Cephalotus said:
60mm said:
Cephalotus said:
3. How much more different does the lens focus by wire on the E-300
feel, compared to a true mechanical focus ring (which I gather the
Pentax lenses have). I have an old Zenith film SLR, with a prime
50mm lens and I really like the mechanical feel to the focus ring.
Click to expand...
It lags when you focus quickly, pretty annoying.
Click to expand...
You never tried it, did you ?

There is absolutly no lag.
Click to expand...
The sotre I work in has the E-300 and have played with it many times. There is lag with it. Snap it quickly from close to long focus, you'll see it.
Cephalotus said:
Cephalotus said:
I would go for ANY DSLR over the E-300, it's noise is just nasty.
It's sad when theres a small P&S that beats it in that critical
department (F10)
Click to expand...
Use the E-300 with RAW and apply extremöy heavy noise reduction
like the F10 does and than compeare the results.

But yes, you are right, the E-300 is propably one of the DSLRs with
the most noise out there but for me noise is not so "bad" than for
most others, so noise is only a minor point for me, I did focus on
other aspects when chosing my DSLR.

Btw, I think that the *istDs is a very nice DSLR, too.
Click to expand...
As for being a troll, I dont remember saying I would recommend the D50 over the Pentax . . . strange, being a troll I should have done that . . .

My vote for this one would be Pentax.

I don't know how everyone else feels, but the Troll-Patrollers are as annoying as Trolls themselves
 
60mm said:
60mm said:
3. How much more different does the lens focus by wire on the E-300
feel, compared to a true mechanical focus ring (which I gather the
Pentax lenses have). I have an old Zenith film SLR, with a prime
50mm lens and I really like the mechanical feel to the focus ring.
Click to expand...
It lags when you focus quickly, pretty annoying.
60mm said:
4. Is the difference between 3 and 11 AF points that big a deal?
Click to expand...
Yes, It's not the fact that it has 8 more AF points, but that the
E-300 doesn't have vertical AF points. Ouch
60mm said:
6. Any other DSLR kits up to ~$700-750 I should consider?
Click to expand...
D50?

I would go for ANY DSLR over the E-300, it's noise is just nasty.
It's sad when theres a small P&S that beats it in that critical
department (F10)
Click to expand...
Thanks!

But I still don't understand the noise argument. How is it exactly that the E-300 has more noise? Up to ISO400 (including), I really can't see any difference. In fact the *ist DS seems to be the noisiest of the bunch :(.

At ISO800 the is a bit more noise, but I guess I can NoiseNinja that. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the snapshot I posted comparing the Pentax DS noise to the one on the E-300 - it's one of the things which keeps me away from it.

The manual focus ring - I think I find the manual focus rings on the Canon XT and D50 pretty much useless which is why I don't think of them as options anymore. The one on the Pentax is nice but as I said earlier I don't like the fact that you have to shoot only RAW to get anything out of the camera.
 
Sergey Todorov said:
60mm said:
Sergey Todorov said:
3. How much more different does the lens focus by wire on the E-300
feel, compared to a true mechanical focus ring (which I gather the
Pentax lenses have). I have an old Zenith film SLR, with a prime
50mm lens and I really like the mechanical feel to the focus ring.
Click to expand...
It lags when you focus quickly, pretty annoying.
Sergey Todorov said:
4. Is the difference between 3 and 11 AF points that big a deal?
Click to expand...
Yes, It's not the fact that it has 8 more AF points, but that the
E-300 doesn't have vertical AF points. Ouch
Sergey Todorov said:
6. Any other DSLR kits up to ~$700-750 I should consider?
Click to expand...
D50?

I would go for ANY DSLR over the E-300, it's noise is just nasty.
It's sad when theres a small P&S that beats it in that critical
department (F10)
Click to expand...
Thanks!

But I still don't understand the noise argument. How is it exactly
that the E-300 has more noise? Up to ISO400 (including), I really
can't see any difference. In fact the *ist DS seems to be the
noisiest of the bunch :(.
At ISO800 the is a bit more noise, but I guess I can NoiseNinja
that. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the snapshot I
posted comparing the Pentax DS noise to the one on the E-300 - it's
one of the things which keeps me away from it.
Click to expand...
It's noise is really bad in darker part of the images. So lets say a picture got underexposed somehow or there were parts of the image that you wanted to lighten up. Both very common. You go to use curves, dodge, whatever and out comes really nasty noise. Now all cameras will have more noise in the darker areas, but the E-300's noise in these areas is very colorful and blotchy which makes it even more destructive to your image as it is much harder to remove. NR can only do so much.
Sergey Todorov said:
The manual focus ring - I think I find the manual focus rings on
the Canon XT and D50 pretty much useless which is why I don't think
of them as options anymore. The one on the Pentax is nice but as I
said earlier I don't like the fact that you have to shoot only RAW
to get anything out of the camera.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't judge the focus ring on the XT/D50 by the kit lens, as you will most likely replace these lense anyways as most people do. The E-300 however . . .
 
60mm said:
Sergey Todorov said:
Thanks!

But I still don't understand the noise argument. How is it exactly
that the E-300 has more noise? Up to ISO400 (including), I really
can't see any difference. In fact the *ist DS seems to be the
noisiest of the bunch :(.
At ISO800 the is a bit more noise, but I guess I can NoiseNinja
that. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the snapshot I
posted comparing the Pentax DS noise to the one on the E-300 - it's
one of the things which keeps me away from it.
Click to expand...
It's noise is really bad in darker part of the images. So lets say
a picture got underexposed somehow or there were parts of the image
that you wanted to lighten up. Both very common. You go to use
curves, dodge, whatever and out comes really nasty noise. Now all
cameras will have more noise in the darker areas, but the E-300's
noise in these areas is very colorful and blotchy which makes it
even more destructive to your image as it is much harder to remove.
NR can only do so much.
60mm said:
The manual focus ring - I think I find the manual focus rings on
the Canon XT and D50 pretty much useless which is why I don't think
of them as options anymore. The one on the Pentax is nice but as I
said earlier I don't like the fact that you have to shoot only RAW
to get anything out of the camera.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't judge the focus ring on the XT/D50 by the kit lens, as
you will most likely replace these lense anyways as most people do.
The E-300 however . . .
Click to expand...
Well most likely I won't replace the kit lens that quick since my finances are not up to it. Wouldn't the E-300 with its 2 good kit lenses be a better choice in this case?

Also - still no answer to my question about the DS noise in the comparison.. if anyone can explain why exactly do the DS comparison images seem so noisy (with large blotchy spots)?
 
PaulMcG said:
Surely the D70 and the Canon 350 are far superior?
Click to expand...
Not from what I get so far in this thread.. at least not surely..

And the D70 is MUCH more expensive for me. The Rebel XT.. it too becomes quite a bit more expensive if I don't get the kit offer, which I gather I shouldn't, seeing comments about it and having handled the Rebel XT kit in one store (the manual zoom ring is just useless.. :)
 
60mm wrote:
...
60mm said:
60mm said:
But I still don't understand the noise argument. How is it exactly
that the E-300 has more noise? Up to ISO400 (including), I really
can't see any difference. In fact the *ist DS seems to be the
noisiest of the bunch :(.
At ISO800 the is a bit more noise, but I guess I can NoiseNinja
that. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the snapshot I
posted comparing the Pentax DS noise to the one on the E-300 - it's
one of the things which keeps me away from it.
Click to expand...
It's noise is really bad in darker part of the images. So lets say
a picture got underexposed somehow or there were parts of the image
that you wanted to lighten up. Both very common. You go to use
curves, dodge, whatever and out comes really nasty noise. Now all
cameras will have more noise in the darker areas, but the E-300's
noise in these areas is very colorful and blotchy which makes it
even more destructive to your image as it is much harder to remove.
NR can only do so much.
Click to expand...
Noise is always worse in darker areas on any camera. For me it's a non-issue, and I shoot with E-1. 98% of my photos use ISO 100, anyway. 60mm is blowing this way out of proportion.
60mm said:
60mm said:
The manual focus ring - I think I find the manual focus rings on
the Canon XT and D50 pretty much useless which is why I don't think
of them as options anymore. The one on the Pentax is nice but as I
said earlier I don't like the fact that you have to shoot only RAW
to get anything out of the camera.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't judge the focus ring on the XT/D50 by the kit lens, as
you will most likely replace these lense anyways as most people do.
The E-300 however . . .
Click to expand...
Why buy a kit if you have to replace the lens? I was sceptical of the focus-by-wire first, but now I love it. Mix auto and manual focus as you like, and there are no clumsy switches on the lens (unless you buy one of the Sigmas). And the focus is super-smooth and accurate. (The focus ring is accelrated, like your mouse cursor, turn it fast and you need less movement to move from infinity to closest focusing than if you would turn it slowly, hope you understand what I mean)
J.

--
http://www.4-3system.com/
http://jonr.light.is/
 
Jón Ragnarsson said:
Member said:
Member said:
But I still don't understand the noise argument. How is it exactly
that the E-300 has more noise? Up to ISO400 (including), I really
can't see any difference. In fact the *ist DS seems to be the
noisiest of the bunch :(.
At ISO800 the is a bit more noise, but I guess I can NoiseNinja
that. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the snapshot I
posted comparing the Pentax DS noise to the one on the E-300 - it's
one of the things which keeps me away from it.
Click to expand...
It's noise is really bad in darker part of the images. So lets say
a picture got underexposed somehow or there were parts of the image
that you wanted to lighten up. Both very common. You go to use
curves, dodge, whatever and out comes really nasty noise. Now all
cameras will have more noise in the darker areas, but the E-300's
noise in these areas is very colorful and blotchy which makes it
even more destructive to your image as it is much harder to remove.
NR can only do so much.
Click to expand...
Noise is always worse in darker areas on any camera. For me it's
a non-issue, and I shoot with E-1. 98% of my photos use ISO 100,
anyway. 60mm is blowing this way out of proportion.
Member said:
Member said:
The manual focus ring - I think I find the manual focus rings on
the Canon XT and D50 pretty much useless which is why I don't think
of them as options anymore. The one on the Pentax is nice but as I
said earlier I don't like the fact that you have to shoot only RAW
to get anything out of the camera.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't judge the focus ring on the XT/D50 by the kit lens, as
you will most likely replace these lense anyways as most people do.
The E-300 however . . .
Click to expand...
Why buy a kit if you have to replace the lens? I was sceptical of
the focus-by-wire first, but now I love it. Mix auto and manual
focus as you like, and there are no clumsy switches on the lens
(unless you buy one of the Sigmas). And the focus is super-smooth
and accurate. (The focus ring is accelrated, like your mouse
cursor, turn it fast and you need less movement to move from
infinity to closest focusing than if you would turn it slowly, hope
you understand what I mean)
J.

--
http://www.4-3system.com/
http://jonr.light.is/
Click to expand...
J, thanks! I understand very well your explanation.

BTW - would I be accurate in my assumption that the E-300 and E-1 noise levels are comparable? Or perhaps the E-1 has lower noise levels?
 
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