Have Kodak just managed to...

Are you being willfully obtuse? The design aspects that make a camera aesthetically attractive are essentially the same as for any object. It can involve symmetry, balance, color, material choices, finish... It's a subjective quality, so it's always "I know it when I see it." This is also true for sports cars, clothes, women, and just about anything else. If you really have no sense of aestheic consideration, then what exactly are you taking photographs for?
 
I'm not
saying the cameras are bad, I'm just saying Kodak didn't bring
anything new in the market.
But 24 - 140 mm in a digicam, isn't that a new range by quite a
margin? If the optics are good (which I seriously doubt,
unfortunately) I will be tempted to get one.

Just my two öre
Erik from Sweden
F Z 5

 
With the actual technology, the small CCD sensor could not reach ISO 800 or 1600 with same results as the much bigger sensor on a DSRL (Fuji improve the results, but not enough).

The only OPTICAL viewfinder that could be put with a long zoom is a reflex viewfinder that see through the lens....that is a SRL viewfinder.... What could be done is to design a smaller SRL camera that use a smaller CCD sensor.... I d not undestand whay nobody its trying to do it... Imagine a camera like the P880 with interchangeable lenses and a reflex optical viewfinder... ( a mini DSRL....)

Remember that a DSRL camera has some limitations: They could not preview the image in a LCD and it could not be used for movie. There is a way to do it, with an split image mirror (used in some Canon in the past and in the EOS 20Ds). Sometimes is better to have a EVF... only if they have a much higher resolution....
 
alistairsyme wrote:
If you really have no sense of
aestheic consideration, then what exactly are you taking
photographs for?
The look of the camera has no impact on my aesthetic consideration for taking images.

I also love uniqueness, not "follow me" in styling.

I have not actually said I like the looks of the new Kodak's - just again saying what are your descriptors for a "good looking" camera and yet you fail to be able to identify that concept.

It's OK if you can't, I'm just intrigued by what is considered a "good looking" camera. I just don't see "good looks" as being attributed to a camera.

"good looks" as being separate from function and design (note that the Murano outsold expectations and continues to do so and yet is referred to as "ugly")
 
LOL, most of the great unwashed have never used ISO 400.

I rarely use it in a P&S.
 
nah tele and wide angle adapters create extra bulk because in order
to add them on you have to carry them .. very annoying. better off
with a slightly larger cam with an in built 30-300 odd mm or
thereabouts.
Adapters exist for a good reason and are popular.

Not everybody will need the wide and/or Tele. And a large sensor will require a HUGE lens to get a 30-300 range with decent aperture. The point was to get a compact camera with a large sensor... }{

To keep it compact with 30-300, you might as well just buy what is already out (S2, H1, etc) and add wide adapter. You will have to shrink the sensor down (not what we are trying to do here).

The adapters are something you will use on occasion and don't carry with you all the time until you need to. I have a tele adapter and rarely carry it, only when I go to some event I know I will use it, like races where I am sitting in grandstands taking pictures of distant cars.

And the compact with a large sensor is for indoor use without flash or outdoors at night when distance shooting is not very feasible anyway.

Personally, I'd give up a very wide lens ( 28mm) to get a more compact camera with

--
MjN
 
It looks like a good camera. Nothing revolutionary, but a good competition to the new Panasonic and Fujifilm cameras.

There are some nice features:

The 24-120mm f/2.8-4.2 lens is new in this kind of cameras and I consider it great range lens if you shoot a lot of wide angle images (It has the same range of the Nikon 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6). We must wait to see the tests results of this lens....

The camera has a lot of options directly accesed through buttons, like ISO, White balance or exposure mode, even have a button that could be programmed to a most used function (like manual white balance). It resemble a DSRL in most controls.

The camera has a lot of manual options (ok, just like the Panasonic FZ30 or the Fujifilm s9000), including manual zoom and focus ring around the lens... a nice trend in new high level digicams....

Well, the camera is really ugly.... Kodak need to hire a new designer. The P880 looks like a monster Canon EOS1DS (after a nuclear war). It remember me some of the earliest Kodak digicams...

Alvaro.
 
You enjoy putting others on the spot - or at least trying to. How about it? Do you like the Kodaks or not?

It's okay if you like them, I don't intend on interviewing you for a product design job.

Yes, beauty is skin deep, but these Kodaks are ugly to the bone...;-)

--
BJN
 
Describe the features of a "good looking" camera...

I'm serious. I've yet to see a bad or good looking one.
Eh....these two cameras are bad looking for a start. A Leica M6 is a beautiful piece of engineering and would regard it as good looking. Obviously you are confused by calling inanimate objects good or bad looking. I guess you would rather look at a Lada all day rather than a Porsche 911.
 
LOL, most of the great unwashed have never used ISO 400.

I rarely use it in a P&S.
Same here, but mainly because it is unusable. I would take this as a sign that even ISO 200 is unusable on this camera. Bad news for the people wondering if they had improved sensitivity.
 
I never said I was going to buy one ?

You certainly seemed worked up - take a pill and have a power nap ?
wazza....you are indeed a fine piece of work. You feel that I have insulted you in some way. I suggest you read all your own replies to me in this thread and re-assess. It is you that is confused and worked-up not me. You weren't on the design team for one of these monstrous Kodaks were you? Why not get back on your white horse and champion a real cause, instead of getting yourself so worked up over my posts that you have to answer every single one - just because I happen to think a camera is ugly (plenty of other people do to) - it is just and opinion - my opinion which is obviously shared by quite a few. Even you by the looks of things.
 
LOL, most of the great unwashed have never used ISO 400.

I rarely use it in a P&S.
Same here, but mainly because it is unusable. I would take this as
a sign that even ISO 200 is unusable on this camera. Bad news for
the people wondering if they had improved sensitivity.
Hopefully it is the other way around and it was only usable up to 200 ISO so they disabled it any further. Did anyone read the specs on the external flash? 10 seconds recycle time with new batteries, ouch.
 
This beast gets even uglier the more I read. The specs are shaping up bad. Can't wait for the review, I think it will be a truly unique camera.
--
regards

e
 
Any prosumer serious about eating into the market share of DSLR's
will need ....
  • manual focus and zoom rings
  • OPTICAL VIEWFINDER
Not reasonable with 10X zoom unless it is an SLR. Stupid paralax tunnel viewfinders suck even if it were possible.
  • decent focal lengths ... about 30mm - 300mm
Well this is highly personal. I would rather have 24-140 and smaller size, thank you. BTW the Fuji 9000 is 28-300.
  • acceptable ISO1600 and useable ISO800
IMO this is an SLR again.
Kodak has addressed most of these ... but sadly across two
cameras!!! 140mm is just not enough on the 880.
Fuji is much closer than Kodak. Kodak only does ISO 200 on normal size files.
 
I like "stuff" that has function over form. Whether you like it or not, they will sell tons once it hits the street and they discount it. The great video mode will be very useful in practice. Manual zoom lenses are the way things should be.
--
One of the B&H 6
 
Let's address what it would take to fill this gap. Resolution, Low Noise

Resolution: A function of 1) Megapixels, 2) lens quality, 3) consistant and accurate focus, 4) low noise at high ISO (to freeze motion and still get a clean picture) plus some others.

A low noise high ISO sensor is hurt by too many MP for a given size, so can we back off from 8mp on a 1/1.8" and go the Nikon D70 route for 6Mp on a 2/3" sensor or there about? I know the D70 isn't 2/3", but they stopped at 6MP.

Then moving on from there, to something that has not been addressed well by anyone, the viewfinder. Either somebody needs to build in an accurate high res EVF with it's own processer so it doesn't freeze (expensive) or use an optical setup of some sort. Maybe a hybrid system that moves the EVF aside with a "head's up display" style OVF that uses an optical VF with the info projected in the VF the same as some cars use to display info reflected off the windshield. That still limits the OVF to about 5x and it won't be accurate unless it uses the SLR mirror that removes the live preview and movie capabilities. SO, we use an EVF that can be folded down in favor of the basic TTL OVF when you flick a switch or put it in rapid fire mode so we can follow the subject. This is similar to what Minolta did in the Z1, so it may be doable, the Z1 didn't have an OVF though, we would fold down the EVF for an OVF "over-ride."

Next - Zoom. A big sensor needs a big lens, and more zoom only multiplies this. So a Prosumer will have to make a tradeoff of zoom range versus size. The Pro-1 settled on 28mm wide+7x to keep from getting too big. The FZ series uses smaller sensors, or like the FZ30, just got big. Those two satisfy two different markets, but the sensors still are not yielding high ISO of the SLR variety - still too small for 8MP. A 10x lens with f/2.8 on a big sensor (2/3" in this case) would be about as big as the FZ30. (12*(2/3) (1/1.8) = 10)

So what do we have? A series of options to make a range of quality cameras with ranges of zoom and sensor sizes. It takes a different set of compromises to get a good 6MP picture that will kill an 8MP picture from the current crop of small sensor 8MP cameras. The effective resolution could approach the best 8MP in good light and pass it in low light if we stick with 6MP on a 2/3" sensor and get a good f/2.5-3.1 8x lens so as to not get too big. And truthfully, 8Mp is less than 15% wider than a 6MP picture anyway!

Of course there will be options in this new range of cameras for 8x 28-224mm wide, 8x 38-304mm, and also a huge 36-432mm 12x FZ30 killer. Panasonic could supply that one in the FZ40 if they backed off on the MP battlefront to make a camera that actually works in more circumstances.

The Pro-2 could be a natural inheritor to the 28-224mm if it too backed off to 6MP on the same size sensor, but Nikon seems to be the only mnfctr that may stop pixel farming and pause at 6MP (witness the 6MP D70) until technology warrants moving on.

A Nikon 8600 or Canon S3 Pro could be made with the goods. We can only hope... and wait.

whew
I'm done. See you tomorrow.
The gap in the market has not been addressed, Speciafically useable
ISO800+ accurate focussing/zooming (optical viewfinder and manual
focus/zoom ring). I admire Kodak for giving it a go but again i'm
dissapointed.
--
MjN
 
Eh....these two cameras are bad looking for a start. A Leica M6 is
a beautiful piece of engineering and would regard it as good
looking. Obviously you are confused by calling inanimate objects
good or bad looking. I guess you would rather look at a Lada all
day rather than a Porsche 911.
Bad looking in your opinion. I don't see tem as bad or good looking - just cameras.

WRT your comment of confusion, you referred to inanimate objects as good looking - not me

WRT your comment of a Lada vs a Porsche. again, you have yet to describe what a "good looking" camera is

Having problems ?
 
You enjoy putting others on the spot - or at least trying to. How
about it? Do you like the Kodaks or not?

It's okay if you like them, I don't intend on interviewing you for
a product design job.

Yes, beauty is skin deep, but these Kodaks are ugly to the bone...;-)

--
BJN
Do you read posts or just your own ?

I've already said I don't like Kodaks - about 5 times. Doesn't mean I don't discount them for ever or is that how you evaluate cameras ?

Beauty in a camera ? You have serious issues.
 

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