yellow skin tones

Steve,
somehow I find it difficult to believe, that this colorcast is
produced by the Sigma lense.
Here is your Sigma Image again, this time with a quick and dirty
color correction applied to it:
http://idisk.mac.com/ghrdt/Public/29419251-M.jpg

Looks pretty much like your canon-pic to me:
http://missionphoto.smugmug.com/photos/29419252-M.jpg
Of course you can yellow-balance a Canon image and white-balance a Sigma image and they look closer, though your Sigma image still looks quite a bit yellower. You need to yellow-shift the Canon image a little more to get a better match. But this will still produce unwanted casts across the color range in other areas. Even the neutral Canon lens will look odd if you intentionally yellow it up, we've all used SPP's color wheel.

For another properly reference, here are the two images again but using the cow in the background as a WB reference, instead of using the same preset color temperture. I plucked the cow right between the eyes in SPP, separately for each picture. I lined up the dropper in exactly the same spot in each trial, but being a little off left/right/up/down made no significant difference:

I agree with Lin that, in both cases, SPP shifts overall WB too far yellow using the dropper. This problem doesn't help people given Sigma's lens casts. Although in this case the Sun was low and the scene looked reasonably close to either Canon balance. Regardless, the relative cast between lenses remains blatant:




The yellow cast in your pic is simply a WB-issue, that you -if you
will excuse me- somehow produce to advertise your
conversion-business IMO.
I don't have an conversion business, unless you consider happily losing a lot of money so that myself, others, and even you may benefit from a greater selection of usually better glass, a business.
Maybe the Sigma lenses are slightly more yellow than the canons,
but most definately not that much.
You have to see the viewfinder to believe it, I suppose, though obviously SPP embeds all settings in the EXIF so its easy to verify that I'm showing you the simple truth. Why not borrow a cheap Canon SLR and look through both viewfinders using some of the lenses I've rated for you, above.

From that point on you'll want to convert glass for yourself too--using knowledge that I was kind enough to pay for, do the work, and give to you.
 
All SPP settings including WB are identical by set. Some of the scenes aren't perfectly controlled or exposured for two obvious reasons. In no case did a Canon shot ever come out yellower than the Sigma counterpart, and as I've said before the overall impression is faithful to the viewfinder.























 
Another interesting thing about shooting the more neutral colored glass is images' saturation ability. With Sigma lenses, I'd say my average SPP saturation is about -0.3 to 0.0. With Canon lenses, that has changed to about +0.2 to +0.5.

Here is a typical example of that, somewhat exaggerated. All SPP settings are the same, including WB, but saturation is increased +1.0 for both:

Canon 28-135:



Sigma 15-30EX:

 
Of course you can yellow-balance a Canon image and white-balance a
Sigma image and they look closer, though your Sigma image still
looks quite a bit yellower.
Its still your image. And I wrote it was a quick and dirty color correction on your small image. Give me the X3Fs and I will correct it to both showing almost exactly the same color.
You need to yellow-shift the Canon
image a little more to get a better match.
Here you are right. For my taste, Canon Glass si a little bit too blue! I dont like that Ektachromelook so much.
I agree with Lin that, in both cases, SPP shifts overall WB too far
yellow using the dropper.
I would make both look the same, no problem with that. Its just a question of waqnting to or not.
I don't have an conversion business, unless you consider happily
losing a lot of money so that myself, others, and even you may
benefit from a greater selection of usually better glass, a
business.
I just see you hijacking threads again with the sole purpose of telling people how superior your canonglass is, which you - just by chance - happen to be able to sell. And you show absurdly overcasted images and tell us that this is solely caused by that bad Sigma glass.
Why not borrow a cheap
Canon SLR and look through both viewfinders using some of the
lenses I've rated for you, above.
I dont need to, before shooting with the SD10, I shooted with the EOS3 and L-Glass. I know exactly how that looks. And I have never seen a yellow cast in the viewfinder of the Sigma.
I miss the eye-controlled AF though...
From that point on you'll want to convert glass for yourself
too--using knowledge that I was kind enough to pay for, do the
work, and give to you.
I am sure you would like that. No way. I know exactly what I am talking about here.

--
--
Cheers
Günter

SD10-images website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

Panorama website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt/panorama
 
All SPP settings including WB are identical by set. Some of the
scenes aren't perfectly controlled or exposured for two obvious
reasons. In no case did a Canon shot ever come out yellower than
the Sigma counterpart, and as I've said before the overall
impression is faithful to the viewfinder.
As I said before.

Now the Sigma Images show much less cast, and nothing I wouldn´t be able to easily colorcorrect.

Your Canon images are too blue for my taste, and thats all it comes up to: a question of taste.

--
--
Cheers
Günter

SD10-images website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

Panorama website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt/panorama
 
Here they are with SPP saturation bumped all the way to +2.0:
By pushing the saturation of badly colorbalanced images you can produce any absurd color cast you want, that proofs nothing other than your urgent wish of convincing people of the inferiority of Sigma glass.

If it is not your business interest to do that, why do you keep doing that?
Out of the goodness of your heart?

Please excuse me if I find that hard to believe.

--
--
Cheers
Günter

SD10-images website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

Panorama website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt/panorama
 
Here they are with SPP saturation bumped all the way to +2.0:
By pushing the saturation of badly colorbalanced images you can
produce any absurd color cast you want,
I haven't been able to plausibly push saturation to +2.0 with any of Sigma lensed images using any WB. At least not in about 30,000 shots. I thought it was just the way things were.

Not that +2.0 is desirable, but routinely settling on +0.2 to +0.5 saturation is a new thing for me and my SD9. It's nice, I like it. You see so many desaturated SD images in an attempt to control the yellow tint. Turns out it isn't just the way it things are. Imagine that.

Sigma, are you listening? (put down your golf clubs for a second)
that proofs nothing other
than your urgent wish of convincing people of the inferiority of
Sigma glass.
Along with my "urgent wish" to convince you that Sigma DSLRs are superior to more expensive interpoated DSLRs, right? I'm a Canon troll, no wait, I'm a Sigma troll. No, I'm one of the few people here who seems capable of being objective. Most are brand loyalists who don't even want to know the truth, and I'm not talking about only Sigma users.
If it is not your business interest to do that, why do you keep
doing that?
Or could it be because it's true? Hmmm...

The alternative is, after creating a choice for myself, I choose lesser glass. That makes sense.
Out of the goodness of your heart?

Please excuse me if I find that hard to believe.
It doens't really bother me that you find it hard to accept what you see.

I converted Canon lenses because I had the silly idea to compare DSLRs for myself. Being used to my Sigma, when I held the Canon up to my eye I immediately noticed the lens color/clarity difference (24-70 L vs. 24-70 EX). I noticed, because I'm not blind. The Canon L viewfinder was gorgeous. I took a few pics and guess what, the Canon pics were as soft/blurry as I'd seen posted. It didn't make sense. I don't like not understanding something that should be simple.
 
All SPP settings including WB are identical by set. Some of the
scenes aren't perfectly controlled or exposured for two obvious
reasons. In no case did a Canon shot ever come out yellower than
the Sigma counterpart, and as I've said before the overall
impression is faithful to the viewfinder.
As I said before.

Now the Sigma Images show much less cast, and nothing I wouldn´t be
able to easily colorcorrect.
I think the yellow cast is significant. Obviously you can correct it to some extent, I've been doing it for years. Now I don't have to.

And you probably have a bluer color temp monitor setup, productivity color is the default. If you see any banding, at all, in this square (PC top, Mac bottom) you aren't able to view things correctly:



 
Of course you can yellow-balance a Canon image and white-balance a
Sigma image and they look closer, though your Sigma image still
looks quite a bit yellower.
Its still your image. And I wrote it was a quick and dirty color
correction on your small image. Give me the X3Fs and I will correct
it to both showing almost exactly the same color.
You can't do it, but it doesn't matter. That there is a lens color difference is the point. If the images requre different WB settings after being takend with a preset WB under the same conditions, that verifies the lens color difference.
You need to yellow-shift the Canon
image a little more to get a better match.
Here you are right. For my taste, Canon Glass si a little bit too
blue! I dont like that Ektachromelook so much.
I doubt you are calibrated, see my other message. But if you are, and you prefer yellow cast lenses, defintiely don't convert a Canon.
I would make both look the same, no problem with that. Its just a
question of waqnting to or not.
Clicking on the same neutral object should produce the same color balance, but it isn't even close. Thus the lenses are confirmed different.
Why not borrow a cheap
Canon SLR and look through both viewfinders using some of the
lenses I've rated for you, above.
I dont need to
Then why bother with someone who wants to know the truth?
 
And you show absurdly
overcasted images and tell us that this is solely caused by that
bad Sigma glass.
These are from SPP in X3F mode with default everything. Same preset WB, centered color wheel, no adjustments to anything, taken less than a minute apart. It's all embedded in the exif. If there is no lens color difference, how do you explain this?



 
If it is not your business interest to do that, why do you keep
doing that?
Or could it be because it's true?
So you are hijacking one thread after the other in a missionary
struggle for what you think is the truth?
Yes. I'm hijacking this "yellow skin tone" thread with the correct explanation, since I'm in the unique position to actually know why it happens.

Many do not want to know to reason at this point, because they've seen enough to realize that the answer isn't very convenient. But others, no doubt, will appreciate knowing the truth.
OK, lets stop arguing.
I didn't think you would try to explain my question posed above.

Let it be known, like it or not, Sigma's yellow cast lens line, combined with the SDs sensitivity to all manner of subtle hues, is the primary reason for our yellow skin tones. The more yellow cast the particular lens and the more your saturate in SPP, the worse it gets.

It doesn't happen to the same degree with color balanced lenses that do not emphasisize those particular hues, allowing one to happily saturate overall color if you so desire. Although clearly those hues do exist to some extent beyond the permanent Sigma yellow filter.

That is the final, correct answer.
 
Like all who reject the truth, eventually you are forced to ignore it.

(wow, someone whould write that down)
Steve,

This is a simple WB-Issue, easily correctable and nothing worth talking about further
  • you will never get it, because you dont want to.
This is my last post about this, you wont stop your missionary activities anyway....

--
--
Cheers
Günter

SD10-images website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

Panorama website:
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt/panorama
 

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