707 vs. 7 AACK!

I was hours away from purchasing the Dimage 7...have always liked Minolta 35 mm cameras....Then I read the review of the Sony 707....Now I'm primarily confused....
The latter seems like a better overall deal and I also like the Zeiss lens....

On the other hand, the color control, wider angle lens, and the use of flash cards seems like an advantage with the Minolta....

Can any of you offer helpful advice? Or perhaps just do what you can to add to my confusion!

Thanks.

--mark

mark said:

I was hours away from purchasing the Dimage 7...have always liked
Minolta 35 mm cameras....Then I read the review of the Sony
707....Now I'm primarily confused....
The latter seems like a better overall deal and I also like the
Zeiss lens....

Click to expand...

Yeah, I love this one - a good german lens......made in Japan. I'm not saying their lens didn't review decently, but the onlything Zeiss about it is the name that Sony licensed from Zeiss. And Sony is not a lens manufacturer.....

Mark Phillips said:

On the other hand, the color control, wider angle lens, and the use
of flash cards seems like an advantage with the Minolta....

Click to expand...

these ARE advantages. BIG ones. The 28mm WA on the lens of the D7 is a very big advantage that you can only get on the Sony if you use heavy converter lenses. Geez, can you imagine a haevy converter lens on the front of the existing monster of a thing thats already there?? As for the memory, the sony only uses the menory stick which is only available up to 128MB and its also very expensive. CF cards are much more popular, more readily available, come in much larger storage sizes, and less expensive.

Mark Phillips said:

Can any of you offer helpful advice? Or perhaps just do what you
can to add to my confusion!

Thanks.

--
mark

Click to expand...

Mark,

Now is the time for you to decide what better suits your photographic needs.

Are you really someone who wants to rely on the camera to do most of the decisionmaking, or do you want to involve yourself in the photographic process more? If your desire is to become a better photographer, the D7 would I think prove more useful. but remember the 707 will produce very nice images. I won'tlist all the photrapher's plusses that the D7 offers over the 707--you will probably already be aware of them, and you will hear about them again and again.

Do you do lots of people pics? You may find the skintones of the Sony oversaturated and color cast. The reds will literally make you see red, if you care about your colors. More authentic color in the D7, but it needs converting to another colorspace for that to be fully realized.

Do you want wide angle built in? If you do a lot of indoor shooting of groups, parties, get togethers, interior shots of buildings, then the D7 is going to be less expensive and more practical in the long run (a convertor that is as good or better than the Zeiss glass, will set you back another $200, a cheap one that will degrade the glass on there will be a $100) and the PIA of changing convertors will be attested to by anyone that has them.. There is a photographic law that operates like the ironlaw of perversity--that when you most need a convertor it is never on, and when you don't want a convertor, it is always on. Obviously there are circumstances where you can put it on annd leave it on for the duration of the party, or whatever.

Same arg goes for scapes and the like. If you do them, then 24-28mm is a must. And a convertor is never where you need it.

In the end, those are the kinds of tradeoffs you need to clarify. Don't delude yourself into thinking it will be cheaper in the long run. The D7 is coming down as we speak, and the price of a Sony with sufficient memory, spare Info Litium battery, WA convertor will be roughly equal, I suspect.

Sony uses Bait and Hook marketing as well or better than anyone. Keep the entry price low on the main unit, make them buy a lot of prorietary stuff later to make the main unit fully useful. Only Nikon rivals them--IMHO, of course.

I am a photographer, and if I had the choice to make over--and I still could (given my arrangement with my reseller)--I would definitely not buy the Sony. It is basically a high end consumer camera in its design. There is nothing wrong with that concept--it just does not match my photographic needs.

Hope that helps in some way.

dh

mark said:

I was hours away from purchasing the Dimage 7...have always liked
Minolta 35 mm cameras....Then I read the review of the Sony
707....Now I'm primarily confused....
The latter seems like a better overall deal and I also like the
Zeiss lens....
On the other hand, the color control, wider angle lens, and the use
of flash cards seems like an advantage with the Minolta....

Can any of you offer helpful advice? Or perhaps just do what you
can to add to my confusion!

Thanks.

--
mark

Click to expand...

dh....

thanks...that's very helpful...so let me take advantage of your experience a little more....

I'm an advanced amateur....I like 35mm...have a Maxxum 7 and like it.....I enjoy being involved in the process but, focusing mostly on landscapes, like to shoot with minimal special effects and only use filters to enhance clarity not alter what I see.

I spend far more time on composing than on anything else. I can use Photoshop but would use it primarily to clean up and restore accurate colors if needed, not much else....I'm not into a lot of playing around with my photos...

this is my first venture into digital....I want a camera that's easy to travel with...and effective in recording what I see....

I saw the Dimage as providing a good tool for doing that....

the expense aspect is far less important to me...as is the Sony vs. Minolta issue

...than is the practical fit for my needs. I want to feel as good about my digital camera as I do about my Maxxum 7....

The memory stuff is new to me....I imagined buying a 256mb or higher 10x Lexar flash card ...and probably a Digital Wallet....so that i could shoot freely while travelling and not need to bring a laptop....Sony's memory sticks seem like a drawback but not a critical one.

Lens sharpness, color accuracy, lens versatility (28mm on the Minolta a plus....2.0f on the Sony a plus).

So...any further thoughts appreciated...And especially, your own experience with the Dimage....

Thanks.

Mark

mark said:

I'm an advanced amateur....I like 35mm...have a Maxxum 7 and like
it.....I enjoy being involved in the process but, focusing mostly
on landscapes

Click to expand...

What if you could only have one lens for that Maxxum 7 of yours. Would you go for a 38-190, or would you prefer a 28-200?

As a current 35 mm photographer, you know that your landscapes cry out for the 28.

The problem is that reviews may often reflect the opinion of the reviewer, rather than the product as a whole. Best way to judge the cameras is from usage of a number who own them, and this forum and the others is the best way to judge that.

Just in passing, it is intersting to note Phil's views on the camera and his rating of the D7 comapred with those given in the UK's What Digital Camera (D7 rated 9.5 out of 10) and The amateur Photogrpaher (D7 92%)

In the 60's cameras tested by the Amateur Photographer were done so on lens testing charts, shutter speed checks, etc. Later this changed to mtf testing. Now everyday pictures are evalauted - no charts, blow-ups, etc.

Resolution isn't everything - look at the D30 pics cf 4 - 5mp cameras - there is another 'quality' present. Sometime ago I was going to buy a cp950 but Phil sent me some pics from the Canon ProShot 70 with less mps, etc. They were brilliant. A couple of months later I bought the cp950 and compared the 2 - the Pro70 won hands down on printed images - they were much smoother, cleaner and showed more detail: review showed one thing and the printed pics showed another.

had the same problem with enlarging lenses - both showed excellent resolution when tested on charts and blown up but the pics through one were again much more 'photographic' and gave lovely results.

BTW I own an E10, cp990 and my wife has recently purchased a Fuji 6900 so I have no axe to grind.

Listen to reviews by all means as a rough guide, especially when the reviewers work as hard as Phil, but also look at the forum and get a good overview from those who actually spend time using the cameras.

Enjoy your D7s'.

GRC

mark said:

I was hours away from purchasing the Dimage 7...have always liked
Minolta 35 mm cameras....Then I read the review of the Sony
707....Now I'm primarily confused....
The latter seems like a better overall deal and I also like the
Zeiss lens....
On the other hand, the color control, wider angle lens, and the use
of flash cards seems like an advantage with the Minolta....

Can any of you offer helpful advice? Or perhaps just do what you
can to add to my confusion!

Thanks.

--
mark

Click to expand...

Mark, we are talking about the same company that introduced
the S75 upgrade camera, and then a month later the S85 in
response to the competition. They do not do firmware upgrades
that I have ever heard of. This camera is pretty stupid looking,
but is a home run for them. Once you buy enough memory to
take even a medium length walk with it, you are stuck. The
next camera might not even be a good paperweight, and Sony
does not care. What do you do with 512 or 1 gig of memstick
when the next camera is definately something you don't want?
If you get the Sony, i hope it functions great, produces the
kind of images you want and need, and you are very happy with
it. I just will not allow the camera to sell me the mem, so the
mem can decide my next camera.

Graham Coleman said:

Just in passing, it is intersting to note Phil's views on the
camera and his rating of the D7 comapred with those given in the
UK's What Digital Camera (D7 rated 9.5 out of 10) and The amateur
Photogrpaher (D7 92%)

In the 60's cameras tested by the Amateur Photographer were done so
on lens testing charts, shutter speed checks, etc. Later this
changed to mtf testing. Now everyday pictures are evalauted - no
charts, blow-ups, etc.

Resolution isn't everything - look at the D30 pics cf 4 - 5mp
cameras - there is another 'quality' present. Sometime ago I was
going to buy a cp950 but Phil sent me some pics from the Canon
ProShot 70 with less mps, etc. They were brilliant. A couple of
months later I bought the cp950 and compared the 2 - the Pro70 won
hands down on printed images - they were much smoother, cleaner and
showed more detail: review showed one thing and the printed pics
showed another.

had the same problem with enlarging lenses - both showed excellent
resolution when tested on charts and blown up but the pics through
one were again much more 'photographic' and gave lovely results.

BTW I own an E10, cp990 and my wife has recently purchased a Fuji
6900 so I have no axe to grind.

Listen to reviews by all means as a rough guide, especially when
the reviewers work as hard as Phil, but also look at the forum and
get a good overview from those who actually spend time using the
cameras.

Enjoy your D7s'.

GRC

mark said:

I was hours away from purchasing the Dimage 7...have always liked
Minolta 35 mm cameras....Then I read the review of the Sony
707....Now I'm primarily confused....
The latter seems like a better overall deal and I also like the
Zeiss lens....
On the other hand, the color control, wider angle lens, and the use
of flash cards seems like an advantage with the Minolta....

Can any of you offer helpful advice? Or perhaps just do what you
can to add to my confusion!

Thanks.

--
mark

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

All you describe says Dimage7 instead of the 707 for your needs. Composing and spending time on pictures pays off great on the D7. You need a good week or two though to have learned what the different settings really turns out into in the end though, because the viewing on the camera isn't exactly ... exact...

Check out a lot of pictures taken with the D7 first though, some I know is concerned by the noise-level. I am not, but admits freely that the 707 seems cleaner in respect of noise. If the D7 isn't all the camera you expect, then your needs/requirements points in the direction of E10 and D30 rather than 707, i'm afraid...

Best regards

Bo Eriksson

mark said:

dh....

thanks...that's very helpful...so let me take advantage of your
experience a little more....

I'm an advanced amateur....I like 35mm...have a Maxxum 7 and like
it.....I enjoy being involved in the process but, focusing mostly
on landscapes, like to shoot with minimal special effects and only
use filters to enhance clarity not alter what I see.
I spend far more time on composing than on anything else. I can use
Photoshop but would use it primarily to clean up and restore
accurate colors if needed, not much else....I'm not into a lot of
playing around with my photos...

this is my first venture into digital....I want a camera that's
easy to travel with...and effective in recording what I see....

I saw the Dimage as providing a good tool for doing that....

the expense aspect is far less important to me...as is the Sony vs.
Minolta issue
...than is the practical fit for my needs. I want to feel as good
about my digital camera as I do about my Maxxum 7....

The memory stuff is new to me....I imagined buying a 256mb or
higher 10x Lexar flash card ...and probably a Digital
Wallet....so that i could shoot freely while travelling and not
need to bring a laptop....Sony's memory sticks seem like a drawback
but not a critical one.

Lens sharpness, color accuracy, lens versatility (28mm on the
Minolta a plus....2.0f on the Sony a plus).

So...any further thoughts appreciated...And especially, your own
experience with the Dimage....

Thanks.

Mark

Click to expand...

The noise level differece that Phil demonstrated is very noticeale, But the DESPECKLE option on the ACD software is marvellous and produces 100% noise free images from the D7, I do not print anything without doing this DESPECKLE thing first. By the way, everyBody who sees the printed images of the D7 goes WOW, UNBELIEVABLE quality. I was Buying photoframes 1/2 an hour ago, and the guy at the shop wanted to Buy this camera immediately at any price after seeing the printed photos, But he was disappointed when I told him it doesnt support Studio flash, he insisted that he can work around it and make studio flashes work.
I am not regretting Buyng this camera at all

Hatem Tawfik
Cairo Egypt

Hatem, you mentioned a poor Casio 4000 review the other
day. Have you actually read a 4000 review, and if so, where
can I find it in English?

hatem tawfik said:

The noise level differece that Phil demonstrated is very noticeale,
But the DESPECKLE option on the ACD software is marvellous and
produces 100% noise free images from the D7, I do not print
anything without doing this DESPECKLE thing first. By the way,
everyBody who sees the printed images of the D7 goes WOW,
UNBELIEVABLE quality. I was Buying photoframes 1/2 an hour ago, and
the guy at the shop wanted to Buy this camera immediately at any
price after seeing the printed photos, But he was disappointed when
I told him it doesnt support Studio flash, he insisted that he can
work around it and make studio flashes work.
I am not regretting Buyng this camera at all

Hatem Tawfik
Cairo Egypt

Click to expand...

Thanks to all of you for your great input, and especialy to dh who also sent me an extended private analysis related to a list of my questions and concerns.

I'm 98% likely to purchase the D7....your collective input, my inutition and comfort with the feel and handling of the camera (have used Maxxums for some time), the fit with my needs...I'm now just looking for the best $ deal on purchasing one...and then ready for the adventure of learning and creating.

Again....many thanks.

Mark

Mark said:

Thanks to all of you for your great input, and especialy to dh who
also sent me an extended private analysis related to a list of my
questions and concerns.

I'm 98% likely to purchase the D7....your collective input, my
inutition and comfort with the feel and handling of the camera
(have used Maxxums for some time), the fit with my needs...I'm now
just looking for the best $ deal on purchasing one...and then ready
for the adventure of learning and creating.

Click to expand...

*******

I would have bought mine from nomatica.com (got a tip in this forum) in France for $1170 including FedEx shipping to Ohio, but 'twas too late, I had already paid $1320 here in the States am I'm not willing to stiff my supplier by cancelling the order. I called Nomatica twice, my first words were "parlez-vous English?", and they put a helpful English speaker on the phone right away each time. They have it in stock as of 2001 Aug 21.

Russell Bozian said:

I would have bought mine from nomatica.com (got a tip in this
forum) in France for $1170 including FedEx shipping to Ohio, but

Click to expand...

********

But I meant to write $1,070 U.S. dollars. The Nomatica price was about $1015 plus FedEx shipping to the U.S.