EVF verses Optical

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

papatrout said:

Once you get into seeing the image, rather than the display, a form
of Constancy of Perception takes over and your brain tunes that
out, just like background noise. Your eye is composing and
checking for exposure levels, concentrating on photographic
qualities and possibilities-- Including A lot of things you cannot
do in an OVF.

If the display is too low quality, the distractions may overwhelm
you, just as they might on your Friend's TV from Hell if it
suddenly lost the signal, or looked like it had been suddenly macro
scrambled--in other words, if its characteristics were
inconsistent. Good contemporary EVF displays are not like that,
They are constant and beyond the point of being so pixelated that
you cannot literally see what you are looking for. The D7 display
is not perfect but it is very effective and much better than an OVF
in many respects. But, most importantly, it is different, and
requires a period of perceptual adjustment.

To finish the analogy. as soon as you get drawn into the content
of your TV program you "look through" the screen properties to
content, perceptually speaking. It took me a couple of days to
tune out the display property foregrounding that I at first
experienced with the D7 EVF. I did not like it at all at first
becuase I could not keep my critical eye away from the display
characteristics. It is a process that I always have to go through
with a new (or different) video camera. I look back on some of the
early b/w and lcd displays I had to use and now wonder how they
ever became "transparent". But they did. The image siezed my eyes
and I saw right through each one of them and made some great
footage. I love constancy fo perception, It is so effecient and
helpful. Thank you Mother Nature.

Working with an EVF until it becomes transparent is the secret.

My two cents worth on why EVF displays are at first no fun.

dh

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

papatrout said:

Once you get into seeing the image, rather than the display, a form
of Constancy of Perception takes over and your brain tunes that
out, just like background noise. Your eye is composing and
checking for exposure levels, concentrating on photographic
qualities and possibilities-- Including A lot of things you cannot
do in an OVF.

If the display is too low quality, the distractions may overwhelm
you, just as they might on your Friend's TV from Hell if it
suddenly lost the signal, or looked like it had been suddenly macro
scrambled--in other words, if its characteristics were
inconsistent. Good contemporary EVF displays are not like that,
They are constant and beyond the point of being so pixelated that
you cannot literally see what you are looking for. The D7 display
is not perfect but it is very effective and much better than an OVF
in many respects. But, most importantly, it is different, and
requires a period of perceptual adjustment.

To finish the analogy. as soon as you get drawn into the content
of your TV program you "look through" the screen properties to
content, perceptually speaking. It took me a couple of days to
tune out the display property foregrounding that I at first
experienced with the D7 EVF. I did not like it at all at first
becuase I could not keep my critical eye away from the display
characteristics. It is a process that I always have to go through
with a new (or different) video camera. I look back on some of the
early b/w and lcd displays I had to use and now wonder how they
ever became "transparent". But they did. The image siezed my eyes
and I saw right through each one of them and made some great
footage. I love constancy fo perception, It is so effecient and
helpful. Thank you Mother Nature.

Working with an EVF until it becomes transparent is the secret.

My two cents worth on why EVF displays are at first no fun.

dh

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Frank B said:

Frank B

papatrout said:

Once you get into seeing the image, rather than the display, a form
of Constancy of Perception takes over and your brain tunes that
out, just like background noise. Your eye is composing and
checking for exposure levels, concentrating on photographic
qualities and possibilities-- Including A lot of things you cannot
do in an OVF.

If the display is too low quality, the distractions may overwhelm
you, just as they might on your Friend's TV from Hell if it
suddenly lost the signal, or looked like it had been suddenly macro
scrambled--in other words, if its characteristics were
inconsistent. Good contemporary EVF displays are not like that,
They are constant and beyond the point of being so pixelated that
you cannot literally see what you are looking for. The D7 display
is not perfect but it is very effective and much better than an OVF
in many respects. But, most importantly, it is different, and
requires a period of perceptual adjustment.

To finish the analogy. as soon as you get drawn into the content
of your TV program you "look through" the screen properties to
content, perceptually speaking. It took me a couple of days to
tune out the display property foregrounding that I at first
experienced with the D7 EVF. I did not like it at all at first
becuase I could not keep my critical eye away from the display
characteristics. It is a process that I always have to go through
with a new (or different) video camera. I look back on some of the
early b/w and lcd displays I had to use and now wonder how they
ever became "transparent". But they did. The image siezed my eyes
and I saw right through each one of them and made some great
footage. I love constancy fo perception, It is so effecient and
helpful. Thank you Mother Nature.

Working with an EVF until it becomes transparent is the secret.

My two cents worth on why EVF displays are at first no fun.

dh

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Homer said:

Papa, it appears that you may hang by your own pitard.
IF your mixture of analogy and expertise is to be taken to it's
most logical conclusion, the D7 EVF is of poorer quality than an
optical VF........but you get used to it?
That is, you no longer are expecting to be able to use the tool to
the degree that an OVF photographer can use his?
Excellent arguement. Althogh frankly I would have thought you would
have taken the EVF side.

Homer
PS
I like both types for different reasons.
With a good ground glass system, the OVF is just flat superior at
normal light focusing.
With a good EVF, the EVF is just flat superior at setting exposure.

The tie breaker for me?
I can't even FRAME a shot in near dark with an OVF OR a "normal"
EVF. They BOTH suck.

BUT the D7 EVF ALLOWS this AND even allows Manual focus.

I think Minolta should be given credit for an innovation.

H

Frank B said:

Frank B

papatrout said:

Once you get into seeing the image, rather than the display, a form
of Constancy of Perception takes over and your brain tunes that
out, just like background noise. Your eye is composing and
checking for exposure levels, concentrating on photographic
qualities and possibilities-- Including A lot of things you cannot
do in an OVF.

If the display is too low quality, the distractions may overwhelm
you, just as they might on your Friend's TV from Hell if it
suddenly lost the signal, or looked like it had been suddenly macro
scrambled--in other words, if its characteristics were
inconsistent. Good contemporary EVF displays are not like that,
They are constant and beyond the point of being so pixelated that
you cannot literally see what you are looking for. The D7 display
is not perfect but it is very effective and much better than an OVF
in many respects. But, most importantly, it is different, and
requires a period of perceptual adjustment.

To finish the analogy. as soon as you get drawn into the content
of your TV program you "look through" the screen properties to
content, perceptually speaking. It took me a couple of days to
tune out the display property foregrounding that I at first
experienced with the D7 EVF. I did not like it at all at first
becuase I could not keep my critical eye away from the display
characteristics. It is a process that I always have to go through
with a new (or different) video camera. I look back on some of the
early b/w and lcd displays I had to use and now wonder how they
ever became "transparent". But they did. The image siezed my eyes
and I saw right through each one of them and made some great
footage. I love constancy fo perception, It is so effecient and
helpful. Thank you Mother Nature.

Working with an EVF until it becomes transparent is the secret.

My two cents worth on why EVF displays are at first no fun.

dh

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...

papatrout said:

Being hoisted on anybody's pitard is bad enough, but my own....I
better be more careful.

I was afraid that I had not stressed enough the main point-- that
view finders that are different than what you are used to require
perceptual adjustments. The TV analogy carries other implications
that are easy to jump on.

The point is, even though the screen properties are different,
unless they get foregrounded they both become transparent. The
problem is that the TV anology will not adequately transfer to
cameras. Watching TV and making images are not truly analogous
activities. It was only meant to demonstrate how our eyes and
brains adjust to perceptual constants. And I used that vulnerable
analogy knowing full well that there are too many sharp minds here
to let it go unnoticed. How dumb can you get?

But,I don't think that is quite enough to get me on my pitard, but
a sloppy analogy for any real comparison of the two--which in my
own defense I was was not trying to do.

Also, you stretch my analogy too far. It does not follow that
because the l properties of an OVF are visually more real than an
EVF that the OVF is more functional (better) than the EVF. The
criteria that rests on depends on other tests.

But, you are right, on any absolute scale the image qualities that
you get in an optical viewfinder in good light are much better,
but my point would be that OVF alone--never mind Frank's histogram
use in conjunction with it-- does not offer the wysiwyg potential
(or practice) of an EVF. I suspect Frank raises his photographic
experience to an intuitive level through a repetitious use of the
analogue relationship between the histogram and real scene values
he sees in the OVF. Good photographers do things like that. I am
sure that works well for him. Another equally astute photographer
will use the EVF, in spite of inherent visual limitations, to
build his or her photographic experience to where it too operates
in a very refined way.

But, I think that it is the real time feedback from the ccd that
makes the EVF a potentially more effective approach. That EVF
displays are not all they could be visually doesn't distract from
the point. Obviously, I think that the D7 EVF is more than
adequate but less than ideal.

dh

Homer said:

Papa, it appears that you may hang by your own pitard.
IF your mixture of analogy and expertise is to be taken to it's
most logical conclusion, the D7 EVF is of poorer quality than an
optical VF........but you get used to it?
That is, you no longer are expecting to be able to use the tool to
the degree that an OVF photographer can use his?
Excellent arguement. Althogh frankly I would have thought you would
have taken the EVF side.

Homer
PS
I like both types for different reasons.
With a good ground glass system, the OVF is just flat superior at
normal light focusing.
With a good EVF, the EVF is just flat superior at setting exposure.

The tie breaker for me?
I can't even FRAME a shot in near dark with an OVF OR a "normal"
EVF. They BOTH suck.

BUT the D7 EVF ALLOWS this AND even allows Manual focus.

I think Minolta should be given credit for an innovation.

H

Frank B said:

Frank B

papatrout said:

Once you get into seeing the image, rather than the display, a form
of Constancy of Perception takes over and your brain tunes that
out, just like background noise. Your eye is composing and
checking for exposure levels, concentrating on photographic
qualities and possibilities-- Including A lot of things you cannot
do in an OVF.

If the display is too low quality, the distractions may overwhelm
you, just as they might on your Friend's TV from Hell if it
suddenly lost the signal, or looked like it had been suddenly macro
scrambled--in other words, if its characteristics were
inconsistent. Good contemporary EVF displays are not like that,
They are constant and beyond the point of being so pixelated that
you cannot literally see what you are looking for. The D7 display
is not perfect but it is very effective and much better than an OVF
in many respects. But, most importantly, it is different, and
requires a period of perceptual adjustment.

To finish the analogy. as soon as you get drawn into the content
of your TV program you "look through" the screen properties to
content, perceptually speaking. It took me a couple of days to
tune out the display property foregrounding that I at first
experienced with the D7 EVF. I did not like it at all at first
becuase I could not keep my critical eye away from the display
characteristics. It is a process that I always have to go through
with a new (or different) video camera. I look back on some of the
early b/w and lcd displays I had to use and now wonder how they
ever became "transparent". But they did. The image siezed my eyes
and I saw right through each one of them and made some great
footage. I love constancy fo perception, It is so effecient and
helpful. Thank you Mother Nature.

Working with an EVF until it becomes transparent is the secret.

My two cents worth on why EVF displays are at first no fun.

dh

Jim K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

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Homer said:

I like both types for different reasons.
With a good ground glass system, the OVF is just flat superior at
normal light focusing.
With a good EVF, the EVF is just flat superior at setting exposure.

The tie breaker for me?
I can't even FRAME a shot in near dark with an OVF OR a "normal"
EVF. They BOTH suck.

BUT the D7 EVF ALLOWS this AND even allows Manual focus.

I think Minolta should be given credit for an innovation.

Click to expand...

im K said:

I am starting this new thread because I don't want to mix up this
issue with other apsects of this amazing camera. I posted my
observations else where on the EVF verses a optical viewfinder and
of course met opposition. Which is fine. It makes great reading for
newbies and old timers a like. Heres my position, and I admit,
simply my opinion, and I am sorry for using the term absurd in my
observation. Certainly posters were correct to quickly point out
that this was just my opionion.

I personally do not feel that EVF's have reached a level of qualty
to compare to optical viewfinders. The D7 certainly is a step
forward because it introduces marginally better quality and a cool
magnify feature. But it's still too "wavy" for me and I don't see
much differnece in it over say the C2100 EVF which is just as good
(or bad?). I understand the advantages of a EVF for some people,
like those who wear glasses, and in some cases, like the magnifyng
aid. But most of the time I simply wish I could see the image
better and wish I had a optical view finder.

I have no doubt that EVF's will get better, and eventually surpass
optical viewfinders enough to even silence the most hardcore
critics. The technology is verry promising indeed! I just don't
feel we are near that yet.
Certainly we are going to have many opinions regarding this issue
and it's good that we can all post our views in a productive manor.
This will allow people to weigh in all the considerations, but
ultimately they will have to decide for themselves by first hand
observations.

So I hope you don't view me as an intruder or slammer just because
I do not favor EVF's (at this time).

The D7 is an amazing camera and I realize this is a Minolta
discussion forum and I don't want to offend any one or disrepect
this forum. However what better place to post my observations on
the D7? D7 owners must also realize that not everyone will share
all their opinions on every aspect of the D7. I have been reviewing
digital camera's on my own for my web page for 2 years. I try to be
as nutrual and unbiased as possible, but of course in the heat of
the moment can get carried away just as much as the next person.
I am like most digital cameras far from perfect.

So if anyone wants to bicker about this issue or bring other
arguements on it, lets do it in a seperate thread. There are other
apsects of the D7 I wish to post about and read about and it would
be nice if everything was in a little better order. Hopefully the
EVF arguements can at least stay in this thread.

Take Care!
Jim K

Click to expand...