D7: Verdict after 1 week of use - awful

David
still no cameras local to you??!! what area are you in?

David Roberts said:

Mike Roberts said:

P.S. David, are you going nuts?

Click to expand...

Too late, been that way for years. Hopefully early next week for
the trashy, badly-designed beast. Maybe I'll go a notch down and
get an E10, eh?!
dave

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Frank Becker said:

...I think there is some value in simply telling it like it is.

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I agree, so please tell us how your camera got scratched and the eyepiece fell off. This is unusual but you gave no details. FWIW, I just tried to remove my D7's eyepiece but it wouldn't budge... of course, I didn't use brute force.

Your 990 can do awesome macros. Kindly do us a favor -- please photograph the remains of your D7, especially around the eyepiece, and post a link to the photo. This would help everyone. Thank you.

Frank.

I wasn't attempting to put you down, but more to take exception to your criteria for disappointment.

I just do not see any force in the argument that you are making. You admit that it takes great photographs, but reject it because it requires NORMALLY a battery change every 100 shots, gets slightly warm (as do many other dcams) with no functional consequence, you don't like the button arrangements, has a cf door you think is flimsy, and scratches easily( they all do) and similar complaints. In other words, the camera does what a good camera should do--make excellent images--but you put it down as a disappointing failure because of what can only be considered annoyances--that is assuming that your camera was not defective.

It is better than my 990, too. I would gladly put up with your annoyances with my 990 (added, of course to a list that contains a lot of real disfunctions, like an LCD that is useless in sunlight, endless CA and blooming, etc), if I could get it to produce images of the quality you say your D7 produces for you, that you describe in glowing terms and high praise.

Sorry, I don't think it makes much sense to reject a camera whose images you say are great on the grounds that you offer.

Good luck with your next digicam.

dh

Frank Becker said:

Now that some of the furor has died down over my post, I'll attempt
a little closure here. Added to the criticism that I don't know how
to use a camera and I banged it around (both untrue) is the
critcism that I did not spend a week reading the manual, and I
deserve what I got because of the shortcomings already posted on
this board.

The manual is not rocket science. Yes, I read every word of it.
Yes, I practiced everything before shooting on my journey. Maybe I
missed the chapters on wiling my time away while the thing records,
replacing the eyepiece, storing it in icewater so it won't get hot

• excuse me, "warm", and packing a satchel full of batteries.

As for deserving what I got because of the other criticisms already
posted, that hardly fixes the shortcomings of this camera. Worse, I
believed the D7 defenders who constantly wrote that these
shortcomings were really no problem, and that is why I bought the
camera. Ultimately, the reason for my post is to alert others (not
the established defenders) that in the real world these
shortcomings are real problems.

Keep in mind I was fully prepared to love this camera. As the week
wore on, it just got more and more aggravating. Sorry, but that's
the case with me, and I assume it may be for others. I very much
doubt my style of photography is somehow unique. (My style is to
take pictures of places and people.)

I think, though, I did understate the positive aspects of the
camera -- the pictures are great. No doubt about it. Great
resolution, color, the works. Yes, better than my Nikon 990, maybe
even a lot better. And when it comes right down to it, that is
probably my biggest frustration. Minolta went a long way toward
making a potentially fabulous camera, then blew it.

That's all from me on this thread. Take all the shots at me you
want, make up some flaws in my skills if that makes you feel
better, but this is my experience, and I think there is some value
in simply telling it like it is.

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Frank Becker said:

I received my D7 a week ago, and used it intensively on a trip. I
have been a Minolta fan for SLRs, but switched to the Nikon 990 for
digital. I had high expectations for the D7, and got swayed by the
Minolta defenders on this board to proceed with my D7 purchase; I
was intent on proving the Minolta critics wrong. No, the critics
have been kind to this camera; it is so flawed that Minolta needs
to get out of the Digital business once and for all. It just does
not get it.

The camera has 3 great features: lense, CCD, and small size. After
that, everything else is flawed.

The flaws have been well-documented, but let me highlight a few.

Battery life: I changed batteries after about every 10 to 20 snaps.
That's rediculous.

Flash: The ETTL is nice, but you can't turn off the double flash.
That means no slave triggering absent some expensive work-around.
This makes me wonder if anyone at Minolta is a photographer.

Cycle time: At high settings, the wait to record is an eternity.

Heat: Very hot after a few photos.

Construction: Piece of junk. Feals cheap. Poorly balanced.
Scratches easily. The eyepiece fell off on the third day and keeps
falling off everytime I put it back on. What will fall off next
week?

All those buttons: I kept hitting them accidently. All kinds of
things would happen unexpectedly. Lots of cryptic symbols and
illogical procedures.

Sorry Minolta fans. I tried. Minolta failed - miserably in my
opinion. (Nikon - please give us something with this lense/CCD
combination in a prosumer model.)

--
lexfrank

Click to expand...

Frank get a D30, D1x, or better yet if you do not like the heavy cameras and extra lens cameras, grab 995 Nikon. Maybe within a year it will be a good camera that has these features the D7 has and without so many flaws. One other camera that takes great pictures is the 505v and it is a rumor of a 707 and this could be a great camera and improvements and upgrades from the 505v. Hang in there and keep shooting with the 990 untill then. Your 990 is hard to beat untill the next good generation of digital cameras, unless you step up in price, weight, extra lens, etc.
Randy

Jerome said:

Personally I have no arguments with prosumer digital cameras but
all (except some of the Sony models) are too damn small and too
light and that's including the Canon D30.

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Philip Greensup at Photo.net siad in his D30 review "The camera is heavy, nearly the same weight as an EOS-3 or EOS-1 body, and comparable in bulk to a mid-range Canon EOS body, such as the Elan 7". I have not used either the Eos 1 or Eos 3 but I believe he has. His personal cameras are Eos 3s.

Though the D30 is heavy, it is a little small. Adding the portrait grip solves that problem though and adds more weight. Then is about the size and weight of a D1.

I haven't bought one yet. I watch these postings with
interest, and hope that, while I watch, Oly or Nikon or somebody
comes out with a prosumer cam with decent zoom at a decent

price, like a 4 or 5 mgpxl C2100. Has anybody tried the "second flash" firing slave units from
SRElectronics.com? I got the cheap one, it's not built that great,
but it can be set to go off on first flash or synched with a preflash
camera. Solves a lot of problems.

Well, well, well - I'm a lucky owner of a D7 for 2 weeks now even so I just had 5 days or so which I could totally dedicate to the camera and besides that I just worked with it an hour or so daily getting accustomed to it. Still I can say and have to say: I'm glad that I did buy the D7!

Frank Becker said:

For those of you on the fence about about the D7, go ahead and
follow these folks into the abiss if you believe them. I did
previously. It cost me $1500 and lots of frustration.

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What I'm missing in all of Frank Becker's statement is a honest try to work around the flaws of the camera (which the D7 has just as every other camera no matter the price range) or maybe just ask before judging from his single experience to the general quality. One must wonder: did he ever read this forum before he bought the camera or any review? No, else he would have non the "problems" as e.g. the flash control. Did he ever read the manual? Well I think, no else he would have been accustomed to the buttons in a few minutes. I did hand the camera over to a friend and he was able to manage most features without any isntructions even so he is not an owner of any similar camera and did never ever read anything regarding how to use the buttons.

Regarding any poor quality in the final finish - what did you expect that camera body is silver! Any silver camera body will scratch as soon as you treat it badly!! As far as the eyepiece is regarded there are only two options you either baldy mistreated your camera or just got a camera that was not finished in the normal quality the other cameras sold to users of this web have been finished in. As any didgital camera the D7 must be treated careful but it fits perfectly in your hands (that is if you read the manual - you know that little book and the pdf-document on the CD-Rom coming with the camera) and withstands the "normal" conditions a camera is exposed too without any problems (I did give mine some share of it by taking it on rollercoasters already).

If holding the camera as intended there are no problems - believe me and the other users!

Oh and again the battery live and the heat-topic - how I love those! I think we all should save prefabricated texts to post in acase someone is bringing this up again. Using 1800 mAh rechargable batteries and charging them completely I make it well through a day or in bad conditions at least half a day shooting around 200 photos a day. And still my camera (mostly in sleep mode and not turned off) does not get hot even with an microdrive of 1 GB inside which tends to be hotter than an CF-card. Yes the area around the hand grip gets warm but it never got uncomfortable even not when I was shooting photo after photo continuously for some time.

I believe you, Frank Becker, that you encountered problems with your D7 but I would assigne most of them to bad treatment or lack of preparation and will to try to get the best out of the camera. I wonder: what will you do now? Discard it? Or try to work out where you made flaws and can improve the quality or maybe also look where the finish of the cmera is not proper in your exceptional case? If the eyepiece really fell off that fast without any improper treatment shouldn't you take the camera back and get a new one??

Yours
Dirk

http://www.dlp-guide.com/ - the current photo of the day was shot with the D7 on the second day I owned it

Frank Becker said:

The camera has 3 great features: lense, CCD, and small size. After
that, everything else is flawed.

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In other words it does exceptionally well what a camera is supposed to: it allows a photographer (assuming he or she has the talent and the skill) to take great photographs. Would you return a Ferrari because the seats are small and the ride is stiff? I think you might!

Mark

Well, you are either a quick study or damn lucky. Several accomplished photographers in this forum stated that it would take quite some time to realize the full potential of the D7. Acutally, this is true of all cameras, not just the D7.

Bernard Carns said:

I then went on a trip the next day.

No problems.

Got great pix.

BC

probepro said:

Frank Becker said:

I received my D7 a week ago, and used it intensively on a trip...

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I'm amazed at how many folks get a camera like the D7 and then rush
off on a trip. Do they really plan on spending a week in their
hotel room becoming familiar with the camera so that they can begin
to confidently take some good shots?

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Well, you turned me down the first time, but I'll offer again. Let's meet somewhere and compare cameras. Maybe we will find that there is something very different about our cameras.

I tried to remove my eyepiece. Pulled pretty hard. Didn't come off. Maybe yours got cracked or something in shipping.

As to the heat, I've been wondering how much variation there is in this. I've played with 2 other than mine and they all seem to heat up to the same point in about the same amount of time. Warm. Does feel a little weird, but using your hand as a heat sink is actually more efficient than trying to radiate it all out to the air (or worse keeping it inside). Many others have mentioned that their other digitals get just as warm or even warmer.

So far you have mentioned scratches, a broken eyepiece, heat, time of recording RAW, and aggravation without telling us anything about when/where/why/how.

When did you notice the scratches? Are you sure it didn't come that way?

When did the eyepiece break? Did you just find it in your bag that way?

RAW is going to take 25-45 seconds. We've all known that since Phil's review. Do you really need RAW? I thought I would be more of a RAW user, but at this point I'm very happy with the FINE. I'll save RAW for when I have time and when the scene warrants it. Don't use TIF at all.

Why are you aggravated? Not getting good pics? Not getting consistent pics?

And most importantly, DO YOU STILL HAVE A D7? If No, how the hell did you return a damaged and scratched product?

I'm just trying to help.

Mike Roberts

Guys,

I agree with Charles. Instead of having passionate discussion over a personal user experience, we should be focusing on how to improve the performance of Frank's camera. Photographic equipments are expensive, and I believe people devoted their passion to photography will also devote their care to their equipments. I'm sure Frank is also one of this kind.

Minolta makes excellent products. I have been a total Minolta lover since the day I got my hand on the X-7. D7 is a great camera and I love it in everything it can do. I think what happened in Frank's case is that he really might have got a defective camera! If I paid for so much money and got a defective Ferrari that has loose wheel and shift knob, man, I would definitely do something about that.

Frank, thank you for sharing your experience with us. I think everyone here reacted the way we did because we all had great experience with D7, and we just want you to feel the same way too.

My educated guess to your heating problem is that it may be caused by early version of firmware? Regarding the other problems you experienced, If the camera is really a lemon, then let's get it replaced! I think in order to identify what's wrong before your exchange period expires in case you haven't got rid of your D7, I think it wouldn't hurt at all to get together with the other D7 owner in your town and compare the two cameras together. Plus, it's always great to get to know other fun photographers around town

I've just gotten through this entire thread. I'd like to point out to other readers who are without a D7 that most of us WITH one, are still under our period of free return (2 weeks from many dealers), and don't have our pride or sanity invested in forcing ourselves to like this device, or put up with any perceived shortcomings. Like most on this forum, we've looked at all presently available, and rumored soon-to-be released digicams, tested the top contenders, and have decided that this is the device that we want to own and use, based on it's features and capabilities. The complaints that Frank raised are so out of line with the usual experience of new D7 owners, that it raises the probability that he did indeed have a defective camera (the eyepiece falling off would upset anyone). For battery performance like he described, I can only think he was using the alkalines that came in the package (Minolta's biggest mistake with this camera). Of course, it's possible that he's so obsessed with the 'perfect camera' that nothing will satisfy him (sounds like the noise/dot-counting posts of last month), or possibly a sales rep from Oly in disguise (joking), but probably not. At face value, it raises some issues about possible quality control issues at Minolta, but like most others, I've been nothing but impressed by the logical layout of the controls, expept for possibly recessing the AF/MF button, and overall 'feel' of the camera. Hope he gets his money back without hassles.
-David

Mark said:

Frank Becker said:

The camera has 3 great features: lense, CCD, and small size. After
that, everything else is flawed.

Click to expand...

In other words it does exceptionally well what a camera is supposed
to: it allows a photographer (assuming he or she has the talent and
the skill) to take great photographs. Would you return a Ferrari
because the seats are small and the ride is stiff? I think you
might!

Mark

Click to expand...

I've had my D7 for a little over a week now. Like Frank, I am beginning to be very annoyed at some of its quirks. Also as he said in the above message, I am VERY pleased with the image quality, when it works. The zoom is great, metering is very good, I don't find the control layout bad, and I love the EVF -- I can use it for composition and exposure quite confidently now.

HOWEVER:

• the AF really sucks. Sorry, there's no other way to put it. Every other camera I've tried (SLR, digital, camcorder) beats it hands down. I've missed or blown probably 10% of my action shots (kids, cars -- no sports) because of inability to AF. Yes, MF does work well, but when you zoom in then hit the shutter there's a 1+ sec delay while it "un-zooms" before the shot's taken. Sometimes it says it's got a lock and the image is one big blur. More often it just can't lock on a fine contrasty scene, especially if there's a little motion in it. For me the AF issue is really serious.

• Sometimes the zoom doesn't work in playback mode -- the button beeps and nothing happens. Someone else mentioned this a long time ago. Am I the only one to which this happens? You have to turn the cam off & on again to get it to work. This is one of those things that's a minor annoyance, but as it happens more you get more annoyed by it.

• If you're in manual or S mode, twirling the shutter speed dial fast goes BACKWARD like its CPU missed the interrupts from the dial That's just lame. But you learn to stroke it slowly. Minor annoyance, but could've been better.

• Sometimes the cam locks up totally and can't even be turned off. This has happened to me now three times in one week. (Yes, I have the latest firmware.) Have to remove batteries, turn off, put batteries back in. Usually happens when batteries are low, but not nearly dead yet.

• Heat: not an issue for me. Gets only slightly warm.

• Double flash: sure it would be nice to be able to turn it off, but not a big deal for me.

• I wish the program mode would bias toward larger DOF sometimes. Personal preference I guess. Maybe if it would autofocus better I wouldn't care.

• Batteries: I have 3 sets of 1800s and two Maha chargers, so it's not really an issue for me. 2 sets lasts me a full day shooting 100 or so shots with a fair amount of reviewing, deleting out-of-focus shots, showing people the shot, etc.

• I have a stuck pixel at 1689,1572 which is nearly white all the time. I'm going to call Minolta about it tomorrow. Otherwise no major hot pixels except a blue one at very long exposures. No big deal really -- you don't see it at all in a print.

So what it boils down to is a few minor annoyances, and one big problem: really bad autofocus. Right now I'm sitting on the fence. Return it for a 995 or G1 (which have their own problems of course) or keep it and live with the flaky AF. This is why I had to post to this thread -- Frank's original comment was something like "Nikon -- give us a camera with this lens/CCD in a prosumer model." I have to feel that Nikon would do a better job with these little annoyances at least... but who knows. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and all that.

Well, enough rambling for now.

-- Gary O

Mark said:

In other words it does exceptionally well what a camera is supposed
to: it allows a photographer (assuming he or she has the talent and
the skill) to take great photographs. Would you return a Ferrari
because the seats are small and the ride is stiff? I think you
might!

Click to expand...

It's a good analogy, Mark. If you read my comment a few minutes ago you'll see I have a few annoyances as well (pb zoom doesn't work sometimes, lockups, the usual AF problems). Perhaps I'd ask your question this way: would you return a Ferrari (more likely a Jag because it's in the shop half the time not running perfectly? Maybe you might. It's an interesting question really. Feels awesome when you're in it, purrs along, but then it backfires. What do you do? Step down to a nice reliable beemer or appreciate the Jag's beauty and finer qualities, overlooking the flaws?

-- Gary

Just give me a camera with Casio's metering system, the
G-1's ISO 50 mode, and the D-7's lens. Then I would be one
happy camper! I am not holding my breath tho!

garyo said:

I've had my D7 for a little over a week now. Like Frank, I am
beginning to be very annoyed at some of its quirks. Also as he
said in the above message, I am VERY pleased with the image
quality, when it works. The zoom is great, metering is very good,
I don't find the control layout bad, and I love the EVF -- I can
use it for composition and exposure quite confidently now.

HOWEVER:

• the AF really sucks. Sorry, there's no other way to put it.

Every other camera I've tried (SLR, digital, camcorder) beats it
hands down. I've missed or blown probably 10% of my action shots
(kids, cars -- no sports) because of inability to AF. Yes, MF does
work well, but when you zoom in then hit the shutter there's a 1+
sec delay while it "un-zooms" before the shot's taken. Sometimes
it says it's got a lock and the image is one big blur. More often
it just can't lock on a fine contrasty scene, especially if there's
a little motion in it. For me the AF issue is really serious.

• Sometimes the zoom doesn't work in playback mode -- the button

beeps and nothing happens. Someone else mentioned this a long time
ago. Am I the only one to which this happens? You have to turn
the cam off & on again to get it to work. This is one of those
things that's a minor annoyance, but as it happens more you get
more annoyed by it.

• If you're in manual or S mode, twirling the shutter speed dial

fast goes BACKWARD like its CPU missed the interrupts from the dial
That's just lame. But you learn to stroke it slowly. Minor
annoyance, but could've been better.

• Sometimes the cam locks up totally and can't even be turned off.

This has happened to me now three times in one week. (Yes, I have
the latest firmware.) Have to remove batteries, turn off, put
batteries back in. Usually happens when batteries are low, but not
nearly dead yet.

• Heat: not an issue for me. Gets only slightly warm.

• Double flash: sure it would be nice to be able to turn it off,

but not a big deal for me.

• I wish the program mode would bias toward larger DOF sometimes.

Personal preference I guess. Maybe if it would autofocus better I
wouldn't care.

• Batteries: I have 3 sets of 1800s and two Maha chargers, so it's

not really an issue for me. 2 sets lasts me a full day shooting
100 or so shots with a fair amount of reviewing, deleting
out-of-focus shots, showing people the shot, etc.

• I have a stuck pixel at 1689,1572 which is nearly white all the

time. I'm going to call Minolta about it tomorrow. Otherwise no
major hot pixels except a blue one at very long exposures. No big
deal really -- you don't see it at all in a print.

So what it boils down to is a few minor annoyances, and one big
problem: really bad autofocus. Right now I'm sitting on the fence.
Return it for a 995 or G1 (which have their own problems of course)
or keep it and live with the flaky AF. This is why I had to post
to this thread -- Frank's original comment was something like
"Nikon -- give us a camera with this lens/CCD in a prosumer model."
I have to feel that Nikon would do a better job with these little
annoyances at least... but who knows. A bird in the hand is worth
two in the bush and all that.

Well, enough rambling for now.

-- Gary O

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Bryan Biggers said:

You need to look at the wait times for RAW files on other camera
that have RAW. The Minlota takes about 21 seconds to save a RAW
file on a GOOD flash card or microdrive.

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21 seconds?!?!! that's loooong!

Bryan Biggers said:

A D1 and E-10 can take a
RAW shot every 13 seeconds but the files are 7.7 MB. The D1X can
beat it, as can the D-30, go buy one. Most prosumer can't. Don't
forget to factor in that the RAW file is bigger in the D7 than
other cameras.

Click to expand...

For discussion's sake, the Canon G1 can write (no buffer considerations) a RAW file in as little as 3 seconds on a good CF card.....at most 9 secs (if you use those slow Sandisk CF cards) Canon has been able to compress the RAW files very very well into 2+ meg files. On a D30, the RAW files are 3 meg average in size...

Red Dawn

From Phil's review data on writing RAW to Microdrive:

G1 - 7.5 to write 2300KB for 306 KB per second
D7 - 24.8 to write 9700KB for 391 KB per second

The G1 would take 31.6 seconds to write the D7 file.

So what exactly are your complaining about. Too many pixels?

Mike Roberts

He fades back.....he shoots!................
NOTHING BUT NET! WHAT A SHOT!!!!

;> )
Homer

Mike Roberts said:

From Phil's review data on writing RAW to Microdrive:

G1 - 7.5 to write 2300KB for 306 KB per second
D7 - 24.8 to write 9700KB for 391 KB per second

The G1 would take 31.6 seconds to write the D7 file.

So what exactly are your complaining about. Too many pixels?

Mike Roberts

Click to expand...

You neglected to take into account the RAW compression the G1 employs. It is way more efficient than the D7's (1.97 bytes/pixel vs .73 bytes/pixel). By my calculations, a G1, using your numbers here and others from the review, would save a photo with the pixel dimensions of the D7 in 11.7 seconds (granted, at the bit depth of the G1's sensor). For some reason, the D7's handling of raw files is just really slow and poor in general.

Mike Roberts said:

From Phil's review data on writing RAW to Microdrive:

G1 - 7.5 to write 2300KB for 306 KB per second
D7 - 24.8 to write 9700KB for 391 KB per second

The G1 would take 31.6 seconds to write the D7 file.

So what exactly are your complaining about. Too many pixels?

Mike Roberts

Click to expand...

No, it is just writing to the card as fast as it can, which is
pretty fast for the bus used. Yes, when you are recording
more data per pixel, it takes longer. Are you saying more
data per pixel is bad? In the first place, you have no clue how
the G-1 handles it's data, and no one else does either. If they
did, we would not be stuck with using the Canon dll's and their
false color processing that G-1 owners have no control over.
Go back to the OLY forum until you have something other than
speculation to share. By the way, did you know that same G-1
RAW file has the jpeg preview embedded in it? Try figuring that
in your calculations about how many bites per pixel it uses, as
you have no clue how much it uses for other purposes. At
least when you talk about the E-10 you know what you are
talking about. Did you know before I told you that it had already
been processed before they let you see it?

Dr. Gonzo said:

Mike Roberts said:

From Phil's review data on writing RAW to Microdrive:

G1 - 7.5 to write 2300KB for 306 KB per second
D7 - 24.8 to write 9700KB for 391 KB per second

The G1 would take 31.6 seconds to write the D7 file.

So what exactly are your complaining about. Too many pixels?

Mike Roberts

Click to expand...

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