Reading mode: Light Dark

S2 smart zoom?

Go to last post
you dont seem to get it.

the in camera crop uses the RAW image before cropping, not jpeg compressed images before cropping like photoshop.

Also, ever hear of manual focus?
 
Montana500 said:
The smart zoom is keeping your image quality by bumping your
resolution down. You cannot use the smart zoom at 5 mp if the
highest resolution on the camera was 5 mp. You would have to shoot
it at 4, 3 or 2. This is in essence a no quality-loss crop in the
camera before jpeg compression that allows you to bring the image
closer to your view, and focus on it properly.
Click to expand...
I've read the article you posted (I'm not sure you have), so I understand what it does. So, are you trying to tell me that on the LCD of the camera, you WOULD be able to focus nicely using smart zoom and you WOULD NOT be able to focus nicely using digital zoom? Are you saying that on the LCD the smart zoom looks THAT much better than digital? I really find that hard to believe as on the LCD's/EVF's of this range of camera, I find that digital zoom looks super on the LCD/EVF, it's when you get it to the computer that you notice the quality difference from strict optical zoom. I'm not sure why smart zoom would look so different on the LCD/EVF.
 
this thread is hilarious!

I'm going to start a thread that black is white, and no matter what anybody replies just keep repeating over and over again that you are wrong and black is white.
complete waste of space and time LOL.
 
i've been reading/part of this thread pretty much since it started... and i have to say if it was montana's goal, he's finally done it, for the first time in my life, a forum thread has actually made me physically nausious.

at first it was from laughter, but then complete disgust to realize that someone can actually be so thick headed as to keep saying the same thing over and over and over and suddenly religious wars and simliar things dont seem that far fetched anymore when you realize theres people like this in the world.

so now i have to go get a ginger ale or something to settle my stomach and hope that simon can repay me for the few hundred thousand brain cells that were killed off during the reading of this thread :\ (i'll take that in a canon 1ds btw :D )
 
the smart zoom can add to your zoom by reducing pixels.

I have had good results going from 5mps to 2mps with the HP 945 and been able to print 4x6 without degradation that a regular ditigal zoom produces.

Its not to say that it is better or worse then using photoshop to crop.

Its an added tool that I wish the S2 had.

I have a uzi 2100 at 2mps and was able to make great prints up to 8x10.

I not sure where this topic got off the tracks but I can say that the smart zoom is a worthwhile addition to a camera.
 
""the smart zoom can add to your zoom by reducing pixels.

I have had good results going from 5mps to 2mps with the HP 945 and been able to print 4x6 without degradation that a regular ditigal zoom produces.

Its not to say that it is better or worse then using photoshop to crop.

Its an added tool that I wish the S2 had.

I have a uzi 2100 at 2mps and was able to make great prints up to 8x10.

I not sure where this topic got off the tracks but I can say that the smart zoom is a worthwhile addition to a camera. ""

Not only that, but cropping this way in camera, the camera is working with RAW data, a losless formatt, and NOT lossy format in photoshop with compressed Jpeg.

It's amazing that people can't grasp this.
 
I understand that the the process is different, but are the end results different?
maxx2 said:
Maxx
Jeremy said:
Maybe you guys should just agree to disagree.

Montana (and others who would like to comment), what if you take an
S2 5mp pic at 16x and then use photoshop to RESIZE the picture to
1600x1200 (2mp). How will that compare to the Fuji's 16x @ 2mp
using "smart zoom"?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Jeremy
 
That article contradicts everything Montana500 has said:

"I call Smart Zoom "ethical digital zoom" because it is not made available at full image size -- this would cause image degradation. The smaller you elect to save your image, the more smart zoom power you have available ([ ]folks, you're basically just cropping the image without re-enlarging, which you can also do at any time in post-processing[ ]). I would personally not recommend cropping down below 3MP, which means that Smart Zoom is useful only in digital cameras with 4MP and above.

So, our recommendation still holds. If you want zoom power, only optical zoom matters! Smart Zoom is the better form of digital zoom, but what you gain in simulated zoom power (again, you're just cropping), you lose in image size. There's no free lunch."
Montana500 said:
http://www.photoxels.com/article_zoom.html

interesting couple paragraphs on smart zoom.
Click to expand...
--
Jeremy
 
People, haven't you figured out that Montana500 is a skin head who believes the holocaust didn't exist?
Montana500 said:
not when it allows you to properly focus and frame a subject in the
field, something you cant do in photoshop.

If you are at a national park, and there is an eagle 16x away - are
you better off zooming in to 12x far away from the bird, which is
unfocused of course, and then cropping down to 2 mp in Photoshop,
or are you better off using the 16x smart zoom at 2 mp, and then
properly focusing and framing the bird in the field?

which gives you a better photo?

come on.
Click to expand...
--
Jeremy
 
At 16x, can't you set focus to infinity? How would smartzoom focus better at 16x than s2 at 16x?
Montana500 said:
""
1) Cropping afterwards can give you exactly the same picture as the
smart zoom, or you can play around with differant compositions.
Therefore I can see no reason why framing could possibly be better
in camera.""

How can photoshop focus in the field for you at 16x?

It can't. You do realize yo uneed to focus very well on these bird
shots, correct?

""
2) Therefore the only advantage would be if focusing is better with
the smart zoom. It has been stated in this thread that this is not
so.""

How can it not be better to be at 16x, and have manual focus of the
subject? I don't see how a 12x photoshop crop to 16x can duplicate
that.
Click to expand...
--
Jeremy
 
"Not only that, but cropping this way in camera, the camera is working with RAW data, a losless formatt, and NOT lossy format in photoshop with compressed Jpeg.

It's amazing that people can't grasp this."

In the example of the 5 mp camera, the original jpg is generating by the same algorithms working from the full RAW data. If you crop after the fact, you get a 2 MP image that was generating from the same data as the in-camera crop ("SmartZoom") generated from the same RAW data. Unless SmartZoom is using different (smarter?) algorithms than the cameras standard jpg algorithms the result is the same. (Both the 5 mp cropped to 2 and the 2 mp from smart zoom used the same sensor RAW data.)

It's amazing that YOU can't grasp this.
 
Hi Frank, I was just wondering where you got the info on how the digital zoom worked on the S1/S2? I'd be interested in reading it. Thanks.
 
So apparently, increased resolution doesn't increase image quality. Based on Montana500's logic, a 2mp pic printed out at say 16x10 will have the same image quality as a 8mp pic printed out at 16x10.

One word describes smart zoom: gimmick!
Montana500 said:
you do realize with this kind of zoom your arent losing image
quality, only resolution.
Click to expand...
--
Jeremy
 
You're right, using auto focus, there is no difference. However, if for some reason neither camera is able to acheive proper focus at 12x optical, smart zoom makes manual zoom easier for the photographer. That's my take on it. Of course, I think it's a gimmick, but it may have some benefit 1 out of every 1000 pics or so.

hA!
Toedtoes said:
From the article Montana so nicely provided:

"So, our recommendation still holds. If you want zoom power, only
optical zoom matters! Smart Zoom is the better form of DIGITAL
zoom, but what you GAIN in SIMULATED ZOOM power (again, you're just
cropping), you LOSE in IMAGE SIZE. There's no free lunch.

Again, DON'T BUY a digital camera based on digital (traditional or
SMART) zoom. Always compare optical zoom with optical zoom. If you
are comparing 2 digital cameras with the same optical zoom, but one
has smart digital zoom and the other has traditional digital zoom,
then the smart zoom has a slight advantage. But personally, I
wouldn't even look at that because there are a lot more important
features to differentiate the cameras."

And by the way, I see absolutely NOTHING in this article about
better focusing ability with "smart zoom". Your focusing is no
better than with regular digital zoom, and that's no better than
with your lesser optical, because your camera is still only seeing
the subject at the 12x point (not at the imaginary 16x point of
digital smart zoom). The camera focuses first and captures the
image and then the image is cropped to the smaller size - no where
in there are you focusing at a closer point than the optical lens
can get to.
Click to expand...
--
Jeremy
 
I have an Oly c770. There was plenty of discussion about the "super-zoom" feature. For example:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=8982129

In that thread, I made a comparison, and it's really hard to tell the difference between a "10x zoom 4MP image cropped down to 2MP" versus a "14x super-zoom 2MP" image.

Having said that, I much rather prefer to do my framing when I am shooting, so having the ability to occasionally zoom to 14x knowing I am still using optical zoom is nice:



http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n/image/43834676

Cheers,

Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n

 
Montana500 said:
Not only that, but cropping this way in camera, the camera is
working with RAW data, a losless formatt, and NOT lossy format in
photoshop with compressed Jpeg.

It's amazing that people can't grasp this.
Click to expand...
Your argument here makes no sense.

It would only be more benificial to use RAW data if the camera were actually manipulating that data in some way (like interpolating), but it's not. The camera is just cropping the image. What does it matter if you're using RAW data or a lossy jpeg when you're just discarding information from the edge of the frame?

Now, if we knew that the camera was only using the "cropped" RAW data to carry out processes like auto white balance, metering, or autofocus then maybe this method would be a little more accurate for making the image. But we don't know if it's doing this, and you've provided no proof that it does.

Furthermore isn't it still a possibility that the camera crops the jpeg image and not the RAW data? You should never make assumptions about a process you don't actually understand.

Just something to think about.
 
""It would only be more benificial to use RAW data if the camera were actually manipulating that data in some way (like interpolating), but it's not. The camera is just cropping the image. What does it matter if you're using RAW data or a lossy jpeg when you're just discarding information from the edge of the frame?""

What does it matter if you use an MP3 or a pure .wav file?
 
"" have an Oly c770. There was plenty of discussion about the "super-zoom" feature. For example:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=8982129

In that thread, I made a comparison, and it's really hard to tell the difference between a "10x zoom 4MP image cropped down to 2MP" versus a "14x super-zoom 2MP" image.

Having said that, I much rather prefer to do my framing when I am shooting, so having the ability to occasionally zoom to 14x knowing I am still using optical zoom is nice:""

Wayne, you know your stuff. And your pictures are most likely better than anyone here.

thanks for contributing.
 
As I mentioned before, during manual focus the S2 has the option to automatically enlarge (digitally zoom) the center portion of the LCD/EVF image for you, to assist in focusing manually. No need to use additional digital zoom. Sonys don't do this during MF, so you may not be aware about this feature.

Image quality is the same as cropping after. It doesn't matter if you crop before or after jpeg as there is no interpolation and jpeg encoding is deterministic. The encoder is working on the same dataset for the cropped portion of the image. I have tried it with my Sony P150, and could not distinguish between the two methods.

Too bad during smart zoom the Sony (at least my P150) doesn't seem to re-evaluate exposure for the cropped (smart zoomed) image. If it did, it would be a more useful feature. Sounds like some other cameras do. Maybe the newer Sonys do, but mine does not.

If you can use the additional magnification provided by smart zoom to determine the best time to release the shutter (because with optical only, you can't quite make out if the subject is doing something you're waiting for), then yes, I agree that smart zoom would be better than cropping a static image in this case.

Maxx
Montana500 said:
the point is,the 16x zoom will let you see the bird closer up, and
you can use manual focus to get a better picture.

Photo shop cannot do that.
Click to expand...
 
When your camera zooms (whether smart zoom or digital zoom) past the optical zoom capability, your LCD is showing you an "artificial" image. You are not seeing the bird at a closer magnification. You are seeing a digitally enhanced magnification of the bird in the LCD or EVF. If you are focusing manually on this digital enhancement, you are risking more blur than focusing at the lower magnification of the optical zoom.

If you take a photo in Photoshop and magnify it by 1.4x and then make all your image adjustments (shadow/highlight, unsharpen mask, etc.), your going to get LESS accurate adjustments than doing it while looking at the actual pixel size of the image. Trying to say that focusing in smart zoom is better than focusing in optical zoom is just as ludicrous.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top