Focus sucks

bradlack · Jun 2, 2005

I have found in two days of playing with my new S2 that it has a terrible time focusing in low light conditions. This seems especially bad in tele mode. The little green illumination light is not much help. I thought that the cross pattern in the light was to give it something to focus on but its not sharp enough either. I've been reading about hyperfocus but that should not be necessary in the outdoor light 30 - 40 minutes after sunset. Still lots light to visibly see the details in faces on people I was trying to capture but could not get the green square to light. Even with lots of contrast at the edge of face would not lock. Turn on the lights and it works fine but I will not always be able to turn up the lights in all situations.

Its not the same as in a well lit photo shop.

This is my first ownershio experience for a digital camera. Used the one at work for lots of outdoor pics but never tried to compose a portait in my living room before. Is this common trait of AF systems? Any similar problems with Pan z5?

Debating using the 14 day money back clause in my agreement.

Lee Jay · Jun 2, 2005

What was the EV of the scene? If you don't know, just give me the ISO, shutter speed and f-stop and I'll figure it out.

Lee Jay

bradlack · Jun 2, 2005

ljfinger said:
What was the EV of the scene? If you don't know, just give me the
ISO, shutter speed and f-stop and I'll figure it out.

Lee Jay

I've taken so many different shots and just dumped them. Most were just on auto setting but some at Av and some at Tv as well. I have not opened the SD card I bought yet, only using the little 16 Meg. If I return camera I may bite the bullet for a rebel and they us CF.

Can you give a digital newbie a crash course in the signifcance of EV as it applies to my problem? Good starting point is definition of Ev. My guess would be exposure .....? Is there some minimum treshold that needs to be met for AF to work?

I will take a batch more and record all this info if it will resolve the problem.

linuxworks · Jun 2, 2005

bradlack said:
This is my first ownershio experience for a digital camera. Used
the one at work for lots of outdoor pics but never tried to compose
a portait in my living room before. Is this common trait of AF
systems? Any similar problems with Pan z5?

the pany has the same basic problem. I think they all do, at this kind of magnification (12x). at 4x zoom, the fz5 focuses spot-on, all the time. linda has observed this as well. beyond 4x, it gets dodgy. throw lots of frames at it and one will turn out ok (sigh).

s2is and fz5 (and fz20) - all in the same boat, I believe. I only had the s2is for a few days, but IMHO, its no better or worse than the other cams in its class (focus wise).

well, that's not true. its faster.

so it mis-focuses faster.

bryan

linuxworks · Jun 2, 2005

bradlack said:
Can you give a digital newbie a crash course in the signifcance of
EV as it applies to my problem? Good starting point is definition
of Ev. My guess would be exposure .....? Is there some minimum
treshold that needs to be met for AF to work?

exposure VALUE.

its not absolute brightness, its contrast that triggers a faster focus.

when the zoom is toward its far end of the range, the image is jumping around a bit more due to hand shake (assuming no tripod here). objects in motion have less 'static contrast' than fixed ones. so its no wonder its harder for the camera to find some darks and lights and fix in on them.

I have found that the steadier I hold the cam, the faster and more accurate it focuses. even on dslrs.

bryan

Lee Jay · Jun 2, 2005

linuxworks said:
bradlack said:

Can you give a digital newbie a crash course in the signifcance of
EV as it applies to my problem? Good starting point is definition
of Ev. My guess would be exposure .....? Is there some minimum
treshold that needs to be met for AF to work?

Click to expand...

exposure VALUE.

its not absolute brightness, its contrast that triggers a faster
focus.

This is only partly true. Since absolute brightness affects the effective ISO the sensor must be set at, and that determines the noise level of the signal to the AF system, absolute brightness does matter.

For the OP:

EV 15 is daylight. Each step down is 1/2 as much light. My living room is EV 4. The Circuit City I was in was EV 7.

Lee Jay

Cezary Madras · Jun 2, 2005

Bad news for future S2 owner I hear ... I'm testing FZ4 right now and thinking about spending few more dollars and getting S2. 4M is enough for me, do you think it's worth to do it? Or S2 is just the same as FZ4 (or FZ5 - little difference, in movie mode only, I think).
Thanks

Jovo · Jun 2, 2005

There is an interactive EV calculator right here on this site:

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Exposure/Exposure_01.htm

bradlack said:
ljfinger said:

What was the EV of the scene? If you don't know, just give me the
ISO, shutter speed and f-stop and I'll figure it out.

Lee Jay

Click to expand...

I've taken so many different shots and just dumped them. Most were
just on auto setting but some at Av and some at Tv as well. I have
not opened the SD card I bought yet, only using the little 16 Meg.
If I return camera I may bite the bullet for a rebel and they us CF.

Can you give a digital newbie a crash course in the signifcance of
EV as it applies to my problem? Good starting point is definition
of Ev. My guess would be exposure .....? Is there some minimum
treshold that needs to be met for AF to work?

I will take a batch more and record all this info if it will
resolve the problem.

vanyagor · Jun 2, 2005

They are known for fast focusing. And all that I had really did focus fast and right.
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/

bradlack · Jun 2, 2005

vanyagor said:
They are known for fast focusing. And all that I had really did
focus fast and right.
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/

Speed is not really the issue. It won't focus in low light no matter how long you try to hold it there. In good light it focuses fine. It just as it gets a little dark.

Brad

bradlack · Jun 2, 2005

linuxworks said:
bradlack said:

Can you give a digital newbie a crash course in the signifcance of
EV as it applies to my problem? Good starting point is definition
of Ev. My guess would be exposure .....? Is there some minimum
treshold that needs to be met for AF to work?

Click to expand...

exposure VALUE.

its not absolute brightness, its contrast that triggers a faster
focus.

when the zoom is toward its far end of the range, the image is
jumping around a bit more due to hand shake (assuming no tripod
here). objects in motion have less 'static contrast' than fixed
ones. so its no wonder its harder for the camera to find some
darks and lights and fix in on them.

I have found that the steadier I hold the cam, the faster and more
accurate it focuses. even on dslrs.

bryan

I tried the same shot on a tripod and it will focus a little more reliably. Not all the time but some better.

I read up on the ev and looked at the posts that followed. I can see that this is a measure of brightness but still not clear on how that affects the AF other than it simply cannot sense the contrast. When using EV calculator it askes for app. Sht speed and ISO. Obviously the final pic info has the effect of the flash. To calculate the natural EV I assume I have to either set an app and let the auto mode tell me the exposure time without the flash ?

I bet I'm just trying the impossible. I know I could focus my old SLR in this light but that was using my eyes and the refractory grid on the prism. Old school !!!!

mikewinter · Jun 2, 2005

bradlack said:
vanyagor said:

They are known for fast focusing. And all that I had really did
focus fast and right.

Click to expand...

Speed is not really the issue. It won't focus in low light no
matter how long you try to hold it there. In good light it focuses
fine. It just as it gets a little dark.

I have a Sony T1, and its autofocus is AMAZING. It gets a good focus in low to no light conditions 95% of the time, and it beeps to warn you if it fails. The downside it, the AF illuminator is very bright; taking portraits, people often complain (but its not my eyes, so they can deal with it

).

The S2 AF is green?

Mike

vanyagor · Jun 2, 2005

bradlack said:
vanyagor said:

They are known for fast focusing. And all that I had really did
focus fast and right.
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/

Click to expand...

Speed is not really the issue. It won't focus in low light no
matter how long you try to hold it there. In good light it focuses
fine. It just as it gets a little dark.

Right. As I said, Sony focuses not only fast but also right!

bradlack said:
Brad

--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/

vanyagor · Jun 2, 2005

I did first tests of my new Sony F717 today. I was not setting up real tests, just shooting at random settings and directions. Did not care about camera shake or anything. Did 36 shots all in low light conditions.

When I use my S1 IS in this kind of conditions I sometimes get zerro good shots, even with some care. I can get it focused in not so bad conditions trying hard. But still good percentage of the shots is out of focus.

Now, results with my F717:

out of 36 shots in low light only 3 were out of focus. All pictures were taken at full telephoto. Some through the front window of the car at night (all were focused).

Just shot 11 pictures in really bad conditions without trying hard. Got 2 of them out of focus. In these conditions I can not get a single focused shot from my Canon S1 IS.

Did couple of shots of the wall without pattern. Seems to be in focus too. In complete darcness - all well focused. Yes, hologram AF (or whatever it is called) works perfect.

I remember having no problems focusing with my mom W1 either.
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/

Xoltri · Jun 2, 2005

At first I was disappointed with the autofocus as well, but the fact is you just have to get used to using the camera and knowing what it will or will not focus on. After learning how close you can be to something at full zoom, what not to focus on, and listening for the 2 'focused' beeps, it actually does a really good job.

Don't give up on it yet. It is a tool, and like any tool you can't just pick it up and be an expert. You have to learn how to use it.

vanyagor · Jun 2, 2005

Xoltri said:
At first I was disappointed with the autofocus as well, but the
fact is you just have to get used to using the camera and knowing
what it will or will not focus on. After learning how close you
can be to something at full zoom, what not to focus on, and
listening for the 2 'focused' beeps, it actually does a really good
job.

Don't give up on it yet. It is a tool, and like any tool you can't
just pick it up and be an expert.

Yes but some tools are better, some are worse.

Xoltri said:
You have to learn how to use it.

--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/

linuxworks · Jun 2, 2005

Xoltri wrote:
After learning how close you

Xoltri said:
can be to something at full zoom, what not to focus on, and
listening for the 2 'focused' beeps, it actually does a really good
job.

beeps?

you mean, people have sound enabled on theirs? by choice?

bryan

linuxworks · Jun 2, 2005

mikewinter said:
The S2 AF is green?

yup.

Xoltri · Jun 2, 2005

linuxworks said:
linuxworks said:

can be to something at full zoom, what not to focus on, and
listening for the 2 'focused' beeps, it actually does a really good
job.

Click to expand...

beeps?

you mean, people have sound enabled on theirs? by choice?

bryan

Whatever.

bradlack · Jun 3, 2005

Xoltri said:
At first I was disappointed with the autofocus as well, but the
fact is you just have to get used to using the camera and knowing
what it will or will not focus on. After learning how close you
can be to something at full zoom, what not to focus on, and
listening for the 2 'focused' beeps, it actually does a really good
job.

There is no question when you get the two beeps that it focuses. My problem is getting the two beeps. I cannot get it into the green to take the shot. I don't think that I should be learning what I can and cannot do. For that kind of money it should do what I want it to do. Obviously within reason. There are posts here where people are taking pictures out a car window at night. Maybe with the head lights beamed on something but my camera would not begin to focus on that. It won't focus in what I consider descent light. It has something to do with my inability to hold "tripod" steady while framing the pic also. Maybe the stabilization is not 100%?

Xoltri said:
Don't give up on it yet. It is a tool, and like any tool you can't
just pick it up and be an expert. You have to learn how to use it.

Not giving up yet I have about 11 days left in my 14 day money back period. (28 days in my exchange period)

Focus sucks

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